what are the possible reasons that successful pre-synthesis simulation + successful synthesis = fail

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by walala, Sep 7, 2003.

  1. walala

    walala Guest

    Dear all,

    I have run the pre-synthesis successfully using Modelsim successfully, and
    then I do a Synopsys DC synthesis successfully(only have some warnings, no
    errors), but when it came to post-synthesis using Modelsim, the outputs
    became "XXXXXXXXXXXXX"(no values); some internal nodes have "0", some
    internal nodes have "1", and the other internal nodes have "X"... but the
    internal nodes were stuck with their values: the "0"s were always "0", the
    "1"s were always "1", the "X"s were always "X"...

    Worth noting is that I follow the same workflow for some very small designs,
    it worked perfectly... but now it failed for medium-big size design...

    I feel the errors are so systemetic, which may be caused by some hidden
    tricks(for large size design) in Synopsys DC that I did not know...

    Can anybody help me out of this swamp?

    Thanks:

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    My script file:

    $SYNOPSYS/sparcOS5/syn/bin/dc_shell-t <<!
    redirect myidct.log {
    analyze -format vhdl -lib WORK {myidct.vhd}
    elaborate myidct -arch "flex" -lib WORK -update
    ungroup -all -flatten
    create_clock "clk" -name "clk" -period 10
    compile -map_effort medium
    current_design .
    report_timing -path full -delay max -max_paths 1 -nworst 1 >
    reports/\$current_d
    esign.rep
    report_area >> reports/\$current_design.rep
    change_names -rules vhdl
    write -format vhdl -hierarchy -output "mapped/\$current_design.vhd"
    write -format verilog -hierarchy -output "mapped/\$current_design.v"
    plot -hierarchy -output "schematic/\$current_design.ps"
    echo "\nScript Done\n"
    echo "\nChecking Design\n"
    check_design
    }
    !

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    walala, Sep 7, 2003
    #1
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  2. Re: what are the possible reasons that successful pre-synthesis simulation+ successful synthesis = failed post-synthes

    Hi walala!


    > I have run the pre-synthesis successfully using Modelsim successfully, and
    > then I do a Synopsys DC synthesis successfully(only have some warnings, no
    > errors), but when it came to post-synthesis using Modelsim, the outputs
    > became "XXXXXXXXXXXXX"(no values); some internal nodes have "0", ...


    Split your design into smaller components. Run synthesis step-by-step,
    only one new synthesized components at a time.

    Think about hazards (glitches). Do have latches within your design? - If
    yes, think carefully about run-time - problems.

    And last of all: Don't "program" a chip with VHDL - chips have to be
    designed / described. Think about every line of code, what it could be
    synthesized to.

    Ralf
    Ralf Hildebrandt, Sep 7, 2003
    #2
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  3. walala

    walala Guest

    Hi Ralf,

    Thank you very much for your answer!

    > Split your design into smaller components. Run synthesis step-by-step,
    > only one new synthesized components at a time.


    Good idea! I will try out!


    > Think about hazards (glitches). Do have latches within your design? - If
    > yes, think carefully about run-time - problems.
    >
    > And last of all: Don't "program" a chip with VHDL - chips have to be
    > designed / described. Think about every line of code, what it could be
    > synthesized to.


    That's my problem. I really have no idea what each line of code will be
    synthesized to;

    sometimes relocating some sentences will change the whole hardware.

    I guess the code was synthesized to the hardware I did not expect...(see my
    another post -- newbie question about synthesizable VHDL code)

    Are there any books/online resources can help me familiar with which code
    synthesize to what hardware? or this is just a purely experience based
    learning process that only the old veteran will know the tricks?

    > Ralf
    >


    -Walala
    walala, Sep 8, 2003
    #3
  4. Re: what are the possible reasons that successful pre-synthesis simulation+ successful synthesis = failed post-synthes

    walala wrote:
    > Dear all,
    >
    > I have run the pre-synthesis successfully using Modelsim successfully, and
    > then I do a Synopsys DC synthesis successfully(only have some warnings, no
    > errors), but when it came to post-synthesis using Modelsim, the outputs
    > became "XXXXXXXXXXXXX"(no values); some internal nodes have "0", some
    > internal nodes have "1", and the other internal nodes have "X"... but the
    > internal nodes were stuck with their values: the "0"s were always "0", the
    > "1"s were always "1", the "X"s were always "X"...
    >
    > Worth noting is that I follow the same workflow for some very small designs,
    > it worked perfectly... but now it failed for medium-big size design...
    >
    > I feel the errors are so systemetic, which may be caused by some hidden
    > tricks(for large size design) in Synopsys DC that I did not know...
    >
    > Can anybody help me out of this swamp?


    A problem of pre-post synthesis simulations mismatches is usually not a
    synthesis script problem. It usually comes from a pre-synthesis model
    describing something that cannot be implemented on the target
    technology. Most synthesizers raise warnings when they encounter
    unsupported or partially supported statements. Did you carefully read dc
    warnings. If yes post your pre-synthesis VHDL and we'll tell you what's
    wrong.

    Regards,
    --
    Renaud Pacalet, ENST, 46 rue Barrault 75634 Paris Cedex 13
    ###### Tel. : 01 45 81 78 08 | Fax : 01 45 80 40 36 ######
    # Fight Spam! Join EuroCAUCE: http://www.euro.cauce.org/ #
    Renaud Pacalet, Sep 8, 2003
    #4
  5. Re: what are the possible reasons that successful pre-synthesis simulation+ successful synthesis = failed post-synthes

    Hi walala!


    >>And last of all: Don't "program" a chip with VHDL - chips have to be
    >>designed / described. Think about every line of code, what it could be
    >>synthesized to.


    > That's my problem. I really have no idea what each line of code will be
    > synthesized to;



    A very small list:
    http://groups.google.de/groups?q=Ra...=bc7flf$g0j3a$&rnum=1



    > Are there any books/online resources can help me familiar with which code
    > synthesize to what hardware? or this is just a purely experience based
    > learning process that only the old veteran will know the tricks?


    Every HDL book should tell you this stuff. The problem is, that most
    books will not recommend a single template for every problem, because
    nobody is perferct and it is the skill of the designer to build _new_
    efficient descriptions.


    Ralf
    Ralf Hildebrandt, Sep 8, 2003
    #5
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