Write on <OBJECT type="text/html"> ?

[David Dorward]

Well, I think you are wrong, not every new window is bad.

That is _very_ much a matter of opinion. I find all new windows irritating
(at best).

pop-up blockers must distinguish between good and bad. when you open a
window and another
window opens automatically without your permission that's bad, but when
you click on something that opens a pop-up you are implicitly giving
permission for that.

<a href="javascript:window.open('http://www.google.com/')">Link will open in
the current window</a>

Implicit permission would be if, and only if you knew it would open a new
window in advance. You could extend that definition to require an
alternative means of getting at the content which didn't open in a new
window.

most pop-up blockers (incuding my google toolbar)
understand this and allow pop-ups that don't open automatically like what

Ah, "pragmatism". I didn't file that under "curse word" until I'd had a few
years of web development under my belt.

I used on my page. other blockers that don't understand this, I call them
dumb blockers and never use them.

That's your choice. The software used by visitors to your site, on the other
hand, isn't your choice.

 

[Arash Dejkam]

You won't. That is what popup blockers are for. To stop popups. Do you
really think that *you* can find a way around a popup blocker that has not
been thought of many times before, by the very people who write those popup
blockers.

Well, I think you are wrong, not every new window is bad. pop-up blockers
must distinguish between good and bad. when you open a window and another
window opens automatically without your permission that's bad, but when you
click on something that opens a pop-up you are implicitly giving permission
for that. most pop-up blockers (incuding my google toolbar) understand this
and allow pop-ups that don't open automatically like what I used on my page.
other blockers that don't understand this, I call them dumb blockers and
never use them.

Arash

 

[Webcastmaker]

Implicit permission would be if, and only if you knew it would open a new
window in advance. You could extend that definition to require an
alternative means of getting at the content which didn't open in a new
window.

Re-using the pop up window you opened is also a polite thing to do.
The webcasts we create have 3 options for the user. They can choose
a sized popup window, or an un sized pop up window, or reuse the
current window. Their choice. An interesting side note, there is
only 1 client that uses a non sized popup window, and none of them
reuse the original window.

 

[David Dorward]

please use that form on my page and think twice, you would agree with me.
do you really like to see that confirmation page and click back

Yes, absolutely. It lets me know the message has been sent.

 

[Arash Dejkam]

As you wish.

My popup blocker allows me to *allow* popups if I wish. I have to use a
keyboard guesture to make this happen. If you think this is dumb then more
fool you.

Some browsers *allow* similar things to happen but do *not* display the
page in a new browser instance. Some of them use the existing window. Some
of them open a new pane.

In any case why do *you* think that *I* want a new window opened. If I did
then *I* can quite easily do this myself. By choosing to "force" me to open
a new window you have effectivly removed from my browsing experience one of
my choices, to your detriment.

Carl would you please tell me what's the pop-up blocker you're using?

Arash

 

[Arash Dejkam]

That is _very_ much a matter of opinion. I find all new windows irritating
(at best).


<a href="javascript:window.open('http://www.google.com/')">Link will open in
the current window</a>

Implicit permission would be if, and only if you knew it would open a new
window in advance. You could extend that definition to require an
alternative means of getting at the content which didn't open in a new
window.
what

Ah, "pragmatism". I didn't file that under "curse word" until I'd had a few
years of web development under my belt.


That's your choice. The software used by visitors to your site, on the other
hand, isn't your choice.

I think this discussion is going in th wrong way, I hate any kind of pop-ups
too, but in this special case the new window does not intend to even show
anything, I want it to do something transparently without interrupting the
visitor's surfing experience. saving visitor's time. please use that form on
my page and think twice, you would agree with me. do you really like to see
that confirmation page and click back and do you really hate seeing
confirmation immediately on the form ??

 

[Neal]

Yes, absolutely. It lets me know the message has been sent.

An alert box can do the same thing.

 

[David Dorward]

An alert box can do the same thing.

Its a website, not an application.

 

[Rob Collyer]

An alert box can do the same thing.

Look, whichever way you cut it, a new window is bad...
An intelligent means (if it REALLY nessesary) would be to submit the form
normally, and either POST (or GET) the info back to the page you want to
keep open.

That way, even the dumbest of browsers, pop blockers, script blockers,
any other blockers or a cobination of the above, will work!

C'mon guys.... see the REAL picture here.

 

[rf]

Arash Dejkam wrote

Carl

Im Richard, not Carl

would you please tell me what's the pop-up blocker you're using?

popup-stopper from panicware.

 

[Neal]

Arash Dejkam wrote


Im Richard, not Carl

I'm waiting for Carl to respond

 

[rf]

Neal wrote

I'm waiting for Carl to respond

Who is this Carl person anyway?

 

[Neal]

Neal wrote

Who is this Carl person anyway?

Not sure, but I'm sure he uses a pop-up blocker. And I hope he owes me
money.

 

[Arash Dejkam]

Arash Dejkam wrote


Im Richard, not Carl

OH!!! SORRY

 

[rf]

Arash Dejkam wrote
Not "just after", "as".

Well, I think I found a way to fool your blocker just joking, found a
work around for it. I would be glad if you check it again:

I must say I have to give you points for persistance :-(

http://portfolio.dejkam.com

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/nopopup.jpeg (scaled down by a factor of 4
and heavily compressed, 15K or so)

This was taken a minute or so after I clicked on your link above. It's my
entire desktop. You can see my newsreader open and your site open. You will
fail to see another browser instance (that is, a popup).

Now, you may be interested in how popup-stopper (PS) actually works.

PS installs itself as a system wide Windows hook. This means that it becomes
part of every process in the system. Every program started has PS as part of
its environment.

PS hooks the window create API. This is the one that every program uses to
create its main window (and usually others). By hook I mean that PS
registers itself with windows as an interested party to the event. Every
time a window create is attempted PS gets a look in.

If the process that is currently running (remember that PS is part of that
process) is a browser then PS quietly fails the window create, without
telling anybody. This results in the new process quietly terminating. Just
about all browsers quietly terminate if they can not open their main window.
Lynx of course is an exception as it doesn't have a window anyway

This happens at a level below that of "the application" or, if you like "the
browser". It is a level way WAY below that of an HTML page.

You will *not* be able to popup a new browser instance at me. Ever. Even I
cannot. If I want to start a browser myself *I* have to briefly lean on the
Ctrl key while it is issuing its window create call. If I don't, no browser.

Oh, you *were* joking

I just visited the above again, allowing popups and none appeared :-(\

 

[Arash Dejkam]

You won't. That is what popup blockers are for. To stop popups. Do you
really think that *you* can find a way around a popup blocker that has not
been thought of many times before, by the very people who write those popup
blockers.

Well, I think I found a way to fool your blocker just joking, found a
work around for it. I would be glad if you check it again:
http://portfolio.dejkam.com

Arash

 

[Spartanicus]

http://portfolio.dejkam.com

You have micro fonts btw:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/test/arash.png

 

[Arash Dejkam]

Arash Dejkam wrote

Not "just after", "as".


I must say I have to give you points for persistance :-(


http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/nopopup.jpeg (scaled down by a factor of 4
and heavily compressed, 15K or so)

This was taken a minute or so after I clicked on your link above. It's my
entire desktop. You can see my newsreader open and your site open. You will
fail to see another browser instance (that is, a popup).

Now, you may be interested in how popup-stopper (PS) actually works.

PS installs itself as a system wide Windows hook. This means that it becomes
part of every process in the system. Every program started has PS as part of
its environment.

PS hooks the window create API. This is the one that every program uses to
create its main window (and usually others). By hook I mean that PS
registers itself with windows as an interested party to the event. Every
time a window create is attempted PS gets a look in.

If the process that is currently running (remember that PS is part of that
process) is a browser then PS quietly fails the window create, without
telling anybody. This results in the new process quietly terminating. Just
about all browsers quietly terminate if they can not open their main window.
Lynx of course is an exception as it doesn't have a window anyway

This happens at a level below that of "the application" or, if you like "the
browser". It is a level way WAY below that of an HTML page.

You will *not* be able to popup a new browser instance at me. Ever. Even I
cannot. If I want to start a browser myself *I* have to briefly lean on the
Ctrl key while it is issuing its window create call. If I don't, no browser.

Oh, you *were* joking

I just visited the above again, allowing popups and none appeared :-(\

I didn't mean that I managed to bring up the pop-up, what I did is that
the page can now detect that the pop-up is terminated and submits the form
in normal way. that is what I meant by "work around" I don't persist on
having a pop-up, I just want the page to be usable for everybody.
didn't your entry submited in normal way ?

Arash

 

[Arash Dejkam]

You have micro fonts btw:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/test/arash.png

What do you mean?

 

[Toby Inkster]

What do you mean?

Microfont \Mi`cro*font\ (Tech.)
n 1: Text of an infinitely or immeasurably small size.
2: A miniature bowl for baptismal water.