ASP.NET 2.0 Login Control not working on Apple Mac OS X Version 10

[Anthony Jones]

This makes no sense at all. What do you mean by "progress"? Market
acceptance? Feature adoption?

Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant acceptance.

I'll be sure to use that line the next time I have to cleanse someone's
system of malware/adware installed because they made the mistake of browsing
with IE while internet novices.

I don't see that happening a lot. However, it is a good reason to use
Firefox since this sort of thing is less likely with Firefox. Is that
because Firefox is just more secure or because it is attacked less? Are
other browsers less secure than Firefox or are they more secure for the same
reason (that is, they are not IE)?

I have seen people trying to use sites (mainly niche and intranets) that
depend on things that only IE does. OTH I don't see much of the reverse.
Rights or wrongs of this doesn't matter the user just wants it to work.

OK. Let's see how hard that is.

1. Go to http://www.mozilla.com/
2. Click on top menu link: Developers
3. Read second sentence, which reads: "If you’re a Web developer,
check out the Mozilla Developer Center...", and follow the link
4. Click on DOM link

Yeah. That was tough.

Ok lets say I'm interested in what Firefox can and can't do. In particular I
need to learn about manipulating the DOM etc as well its HTML and CSS
implementation.

So I install Firefox it and start it up.

Bookmarks -> Firefox and Mozilla -> The Mozilla Website

seems a good place to start learning. Takes me to:-

http://www.mozilla.org/ (note not .com)

hmm.. Developers tab is an obvious choice.

Now there's a side bar with Projects, Coding, Testing, Nightly Builds etc.

The body text talks about getting in touch with the Developers, getting the
source, a bunch of tools that doesn't seem relevant to me. By this time I
may well conclude that I'm in the wrong place and that by 'developer'
Mozilla means people who help develop the product.

Still a little perseverance and there is a Web developers link so I follow
that.

To learn about HTML I've got a choice. The W3C spec that's fine if you want
to be implementing HTML and is good for the 'gospel' on what should happen.
It's not very friendly to a web developer used to accessing info as in MSDN.
The other choice is Netscapes reference from 1998 but is that the same as
Firefox? If it is how am I supposed to know that?

For CSS westciv stuff is pretty good actually.

But I'm also interested in the DOM. If I scroll down far enough I'll find
it. All the while there is this side bar telling me about code, nightly
builds and stuff.

http://developer.mozilla.org/ Is better but strangely there doesn't seem to
be a way to navigate to it from www.mozilla.org perhaps because
developer.mozilla.org is still Beta.

The overall impression is of fragmented documentation where Web developers
don't seem to be as important as the developers of the product. IMO, there
is still some way to go to get a resource that the average web application
developer (especially intranet developers who often dictate the browser)
would be comfortable using.

 

[Slim]

There are plenty of browsers that are not IE. Why haven't THEY gotten the
kind of usage Firefox has?

it hasn't, there will always be a few people that want to use something
different, but as far as I can see still less than 10% of users use fire
fox, and out of them I suggest that they still have IE also

As I see it, Firefox is popular with developers because of its commitment
to standards conformance (which it inherits from the Gecko Engine) and its
extensibility

whast standards?

IE has the majority of the market, there for what it does is the standard


(how did I ever get along without LiveHTTPHeaders or

WebDeveloper?). It is popular with consumers because it is convenient and
intuitive to use, it is extensible, and their developer friends are
pushing it on them.

but it is not popular with consumers less than 10% use it

 

[Dave Anderson]

it hasn't, there will always be a few people that want to
use something different, but as far as I can see still less
than 10% of users use fire fox, and out of them I suggest
that they still have IE also

I have no idea what you tried to say here.

whast standards?
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-DOM-Level-1-20000929/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Core-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Events-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-DOM-Level-2-HTML-20030109/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Style-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Traversal-Range-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Views-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Core-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-LS-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Val-20030730/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-XPath-20030331/
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm



IE has the majority of the market, there for (sic) what
it does is the standard

Then why does Microsoft provide a [Standards Information] section on every
content page of its DHTML documentation (a fact already mentioned in the
message you responded to)?

but it is not popular with consumers less than 10% use it

That's inane. It is obviously popular with 10% of consumers, THEREFORE it is
most certainly popular with consumers.

 

[Anthony Jones]

There are plenty of browsers that are not IE. Why haven't THEY gotten the
kind of usage Firefox has?

As I see it, Firefox is popular with developers because of its commitment to
standards conformance (which it inherits from the Gecko Engine) and its
extensibility (how did I ever get along without LiveHTTPHeaders or
WebDeveloper?). It is popular with consumers because it is convenient and
intuitive to use, it is extensible, and their developer friends are pushing
it on them.

Note that none of those reasons are "because it isn't IE". They are WAYS
Firefox isn't IE.

hmm.. I dunno that's very thin line you're drawing. Firefox isn't IE versus
WAYS Firefox isn't IE.

I don't see it happen AT ALL with Firefox. AdWare was an IE-only feature.

Point taken.

Probably both.




That's a very large topic. Lynx is a very secure browser -- probably more so
than anything. But it's text-only. The browser is always balancing features
with security.

In general, I would guess that other browsers benefit in security what they
share with Firefox -- they are not part of the OS. And Microsoft is the only
company I know of that is hesitant to break web applications in order to fix
a security hole in their browser. That is probably the biggest problem with
IE.

True. That's part of the culture. Witness the hoops MS is prepared to jump
through when releasing a new OS not to break applications which rely on
holes and undocumented quirks that they realy ought not be using.

Funny. Well over a year ago we adopted a standards-based approach that can
be summed up like this: Code to W3C recommendations and provide less
feature-rich alternatives to non-conforming browsers. I'm sure we're in the
minority. But our users will actually notice a difference when they upgrade
to IE7.

I'm not a big fan of standards. They tend to be slow to change. Even
mozilla are quite happy to include additional features which are not covered
by the standard. Why?

Even more obvious? The giant "Firefox has moved" in the middle of the page.
Can't help to ignore it.

Well you see since I was navigating from within firefox using a builtin
bookmark, having a great big Firefox logo wasn't a great surprise. I was
also aware that the home page wasn't going to imeadiately be about
developers I was definitely going to have to navigate from there somehow.

The navigation bars and side bars have become well established affordances
which we use to navigate from somewhere we don't need to be to somewhere we
do WITHOUT having to read the body. My eye was drawn imeadiately to the
word 'developers' since that was relevant so I clicked it. From there on in
I was doomed to the labyrinth.

Web documentation is indeed a Microsoft strong suit. My recommendation? Look
at the "Standards Information" section of the MSDN documentation when
considering a feature.

Good idea.

 

[Bob Lehmann]

and out of them I suggest that they still have IE also

That's because it's an integral and necessary part of the Windows OS -
*wink*, *wink*.

Bob Lehmann

 

[Slim]

I have no idea what you tried to say here.

I think you do,

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-DOM-Level-1-20000929/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Core-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Events-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-DOM-Level-2-HTML-20030109/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Style-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Traversal-Range-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Views-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Core-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-LS-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Val-20030730/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-XPath-20030331/
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm

they are not the standard but are they?

IE is the standard is what we all use and program for

IE has the majority of the market, there for (sic) what
it does is the standard

Then why does Microsoft provide a [Standards Information] section on every
content page of its DHTML documentation (a fact already mentioned in the
message you responded to)?

Still the standard is IE , is it not?

That's inane. It is obviously popular with 10% of consumers, THEREFORE it
is most certainly popular with consumers.

Les than 10% would suggest it is unpopular

 

[Slim]

That's because it's an integral and necessary part of the Windows OS -
*wink*, *wink*.

I will rephrase and say many would still;use IE for browsing the web

 

[Bob Lehmann]

IE is the standard is what we all use and program for

Well, no, we don't *all* do that.

Actually, what smart people do, is markup / program for actual HTML / DOM
recommendations / standards and then tweak for IE.

At the very least, we won't be screwed when MS gets around to releasing IE7,
which purportedly *is* compliant, and, in an unusal backwards-compatibility
move, won't support MS's past aberrations of HTML and the DOM.

So, good luck with all of your re-writes which support the most "popular",
"standard" browser.

Bob Lehmann

I have no idea what you tried to say here.

I think you do,

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-DOM-Level-1-20000929/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Core-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Events-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-DOM-Level-2-HTML-20030109/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Style-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Traversal-Range-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Views-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Core-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-LS-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Val-20030730/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-XPath-20030331/
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm

they are not the standard but are they?

IE is the standard is what we all use and program for

IE has the majority of the market, there for (sic) what
it does is the standard

Then why does Microsoft provide a [Standards Information] section on every
content page of its DHTML documentation (a fact already mentioned in the
message you responded to)?

Still the standard is IE , is it not?

That's inane. It is obviously popular with 10% of consumers, THEREFORE it
is most certainly popular with consumers.

Les than 10% would suggest it is unpopular

--
Dave Anderson

Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message.
Use of this email address implies consent to these terms.

 

[Slim]

You are wrong.




Incorrect.

Correct

it may not be the www3 standard, bit it is THE standard

...why does Microsoft provide a [Standards Information]
section on every content page of its DHTML documentation
(a fact already mentioned in the message you responded
to)?

Still the standard is IE , is it not?

If you had bothered to answer my question, you would understand why it is
not.

they are rerfereing to A standard

But not THE standard

A Standard = "Something, such as a practice or a product, that is widely
recognized or employed, especially because of its excellence. "
Dictionary.com

The IE standards are widely used

some people are left handed, but most are right handed

Right handed is the standard

But of causer you know all this, you just cant come to admitting it

 

[Slim]

Well, no, we don't *all* do that.

my error I should of said the majority

Actually, what smart people do, is markup / program for actual HTML / DOM
recommendations / standards and then tweak for IE.

No that would not be so smart

What you should do is mark-up for the most popular and then tweak for the
less popular like Firefox.

Or dont worry about the small percentage that use firefox and put your
efforsts into catering for the majority

If i could put it this way
About 90% of people use IE and 10% use others, but lets be nice and say 10%
use firefox

e = effort
e * ie = .9
e* ff = .1

At the very least, we won't be screwed when MS gets around to releasing
IE7,
which purportedly *is* compliant, and, in an unusal
backwards-compatibility
move, won't support MS's past aberrations of HTML and the DOM.

So, good luck with all of your re-writes which support the most "popular",
"standard" browser.

I already have IE7

and i have only had 2 problems looking though all my web sites, both minor

Bob Lehmann

Slim wrote:
Firefox is making progress simply because it isn't IE.

There are plenty of browsers that are not IE. Why haven't
THEY gotten the kind of usage Firefox has?

it hasn't, there will always be a few people that want to
use something different, but as far as I can see still less
than 10% of users use fire fox, and out of them I suggest
that they still have IE also

I have no idea what you tried to say here.

I think you do,

As I see it, Firefox is popular with developers because of
its commitment to standards conformance (which it inherits
from the Gecko Engine) and its extensibility

whast standards?

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-DOM-Level-1-20000929/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Core-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Events-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-DOM-Level-2-HTML-20030109/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Style-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Traversal-Range-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-DOM-Level-2-Views-20001113/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Core-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-LS-20031107/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-Val-20030730/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-DOM-Level-3-XPath-20030331/
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm

they are not the standard but are they?

IE is the standard is what we all use and program for

IE has the majority of the market, there for (sic) what
it does is the standard

Then why does Microsoft provide a [Standards Information] section on every
content page of its DHTML documentation (a fact already mentioned in
the
message you responded to)?

Still the standard is IE , is it not?

It is popular with consumers because it is convenient
and intuitive to use, it is extensible, and their
developer friends are pushing it on them.

but it is not popular with consumers less than 10% use it

That's inane. It is obviously popular with 10% of consumers, THEREFORE it
is most certainly popular with consumers.

Les than 10% would suggest it is unpopular

--
Dave Anderson

Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per
message.
Use of this email address implies consent to these terms.

 

[Slim]

The only thing that matters here is public standards.

Says who?

i dont, the important think is the standad that is used



Consider the genesis

of this discussion, my observation that:

"Firefox is popular with developers because of its
commitment to standards conformance (which it
inherits from the Gecko Engine)"

It is less popular than IE

 

[Stefan Berglund]

If i could put it this way
About 90% of people use IE and 10% use others, but lets be nice and say 10%
use firefox

e = effort
e * ie = .9
e* ff = .1

I already have IE7

and i have only had 2 problems looking though all my web sites, both minor

Let me guess. Uh security and uhh security?

 

[Slim]

Let me guess. Uh security and uhh security?

No one CSS difference, I haven't got to the bottom of yet

and the fact that the search pane witch use for my own search pages is
disabled by default

 

[Mike Brind]

That's a specious argument. That suggests that all surfers are aware
of the choice. They are not, in my experience. In fact, among those
that I know who are aware of and have downloaded Firefox, it is the
most popular browser.

 

[Slim]

That's a specious argument. That suggests that all surfers are aware
of the choice. They are not, in my experience. In fact, among those
that I know who are aware of and have downloaded Firefox, it is the
most popular browser.

All due respect, in your experience is hear say, not fact

 

[Mike Brind]

No - my experience is *fact*. It is something I have observed. If I
heard someone else talking about a third party's experience, that would
be *hearsay*.

 

[Slim]

No - my experience is *fact*. It is something I have observed. If I
heard someone else talking about a third party's experience, that would
be *hearsay*.

Its jear say to me.

What you observe, is not necessary the full story or fact

on my servers fire fox is about 4% of hits, I may be wrong, but i thinbk it
will be dowbhill from here for Firefox as it has been with many others.
lets not forget that Netscape had a majority, yet IE was able to overtake
take it

 

[Mike Brind]

Your logic is astounding.

--
Mike Brind

Its jear say to me.

What you observe, is not necessary the full story or fact

on my servers fire fox is about 4% of hits, I may be wrong, but i thinbk it
will be dowbhill from here for Firefox as it has been with many others.
lets not forget that Netscape had a majority, yet IE was able to overtake
take it

 

[Slim]

Your logic is astounding.

thank you

As we can see in this article Firebox share has already started to falter,
due according to the article to its security flaws
http://www.clickz.com/stats/sectors/traffic_patterns/article.php/3520661

thecounter also shows that it has dropped slightly from last year

It does not seem like people are sticking with it, considering the are
getting new users trying it out they are still going backwards

 

[Mike Brind]

thank you

As we can see in this article Firebox share has already started to falter,
due according to the article to its security flaws
http://www.clickz.com/stats/sectors/traffic_patterns/article.php/3520661

thecounter also shows that it has dropped slightly from last year

It does not seem like people are sticking with it, considering the are
getting new users trying it out they are still going backwards

That article is nearly a year old, and only looked at a 6 month
period!!

Have a look at this:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
then go to http://marketshare.hitslink.com/, and vote for which browser
you think is "better". Oh, and have a look at the results.

And that's my last contribution to this thread.