C++, is it Dead?

V

VirtualDev

By the coming of emerging "interpreted" language like java, c# and
others, can we say that C++ is dead, useless, or in other terms: there
is no need to learn it. and why a great language like C++ with a big
community support doesn't have a common developpent framework. i
started porgramming 2 years ago with vb6, c and c++ ; but now i'm on
..net but i still love c++ and want to learn more!!!
cheers
Adnane
 
W

W Marsh

By the coming of emerging "interpreted" language like java, c# and
others, can we say that C++ is dead, useless, or in other terms: there
is no need to learn it. and why a great language like C++ with a big
community support doesn't have a common developpent framework. i
started porgramming 2 years ago with vb6, c and c++ ; but now i'm on
.net but i still love c++ and want to learn more!!!
cheers
Adnane

A lot of us make a good living from C++. It's not dead.

I don't know the statistics, but I would hazard a guess that it's the
most prominent language in engineering fields, and is stil very common
in general application programming.
 
V

Vij

From a making a living point of view, go to any decent jobs webiste and
type C++ in the search field. You would know if the language is dead or
not.
 
R

Rolf Magnus

VirtualDev said:
By the coming of emerging "interpreted" language like java, c# and
others, can we say that C++ is dead, useless, or in other terms: there
is no need to learn it.

Ever tried to implement a java interpreter in java? Guess what you need to
run the interpreter. What about the operating system kernel? Ever tried to
program a small microcontroller with 10k of memory in C#? PCs are by far
not the only devices that have a processor and need programs. But even on
PCs, the majority of all code is still written in C or C++.
 
W

W Marsh

In enterprise deverloping, c++ is not a good choice.

What a conclusive argument! Your points have convinced me to give up
C++ entirely. I am going to walk into work on Monday and tell the MD
that I am quitting because "in enterprise deverloping, c++ is not a
good choice".
 
B

benben

hotice said:
In enterprise deverloping, c++ is not a good choice.

Maybe, maybe not.

When you face a software problem and start thinking of choices,
programming languages are rarely the choices themselves. What you are
choosing is a tool set, a development environment, a coding
platform...you name it.

The problem with C++ is, it is an excellent language, but the vast
development environments employing this powerful language vary much in
quality and need a lot more marketing to do.

Regards,
Ben
 
P

Phlip

hotice said:
In enterprise deverloping, c++ is not a good choice.

Absolutely. When the pockets are deep, you should always let a big software
vendor's sales team sell their proprietary solution to your non-programmer
boss!

(I like the job title dever-loper, though;)
[/QUOTE]
 
R

Roberto Waltman

Then I guess the enterprise I work for should stop using C++ in the
products we sell, (that is "products", not "software" or "programs"),
throw away between 15 and 20 man years worth of software development
and start anew. What would you suggest we use? Visual Basic? Auditive
C#? Tactile Java? (By the way, we must produce code for Wintel
machines, embedded PowerPC and embedded TI6000 and TI28xx DSPs...)
Absolutely. When the pockets are deep, you should always let a big software
vendor's sales team sell their proprietary solution to your non-programmer
boss!

(I like the job title dever-loper, though;)

That made my day too! But I thought it was de-verloper. Some people
verlop freely, others object to it.
 
A

amparikh

VirtualDev said:
By the coming of emerging "interpreted" language like java, c# and
others, can we say that C++ is dead, useless, or in other terms: there
is no need to learn it. and why a great language like C++ with a big
community support doesn't have a common developpent framework. i
started porgramming 2 years ago with vb6, c and c++ ; but now i'm on
.net but i still love c++ and want to learn more!!!
cheers
Adnane

its seems by learning "interpreted" languages, your "interpretation"
seems confused a la some of the interpreted languages.
 
R

Rolf Magnus

hotice said:
In enterprise deverloping, c++ is not a good choice.

I have no idea what programming language was (or rather will be) used to
develop the Enterprise's LCARS operating system.
 
H

Henrik Goldman

its seems by learning "interpreted" languages, your "interpretation"
seems confused a la some of the interpreted languages.

Indeed!

I do C++ programming every day and often it's funny to see how my friends
perform, when they go from C# or java back to C++ (usually because of our
university projects on embedded devices). They just don't understand
anything.

With C++ I personally feel much more knowledged then my friends. I almost
always know the answers to their questions even before they finished asking
them. Questions like "why does this program crash?" or in the like. Most of
them haven't even got the skills to run a debugger even though they've been
at the university for 4-5 years.

I've personally come to the conclusion that most Java and C# programmers are
less knowledged then average C++ programmers (at least judging from the
people I've met so far).

It's easy to say you're a master programmer when you get the underlying
system to do alot of the work for you. "ok so we just allocate a bit of
memory here and there and eventually we forget about it". This is what I've
heard from alot of people. But funny enough when they go back to C++ they
reveal to me they don't know anything about the core topics of programming.
This often shows by doing unsafe programming constructs and lack of error
checking.
I've recently supervised a student project where the student made so many
memory leaks, potential buffer overruns and similar so that the code under
no circumstances could be used for anything meaningful. It was better to
write it over from scratch then try to fix it.

Things like speed and platform compatibility is rarely considered by an
average C# or java programmer. Esp. C# programmers think Windows is the only
platform.

However there are different good things about C# and .NET esp. I personally
do a little C# programming also since some tasks are solved with only a few
lines of code whereas C++ would require a ton of extra libraries to perform
the same.
This has nothing to do with the language of course and only is an issue
about the runtime library.
It's not surprising though since the .NET runtime library has taken all good
stuff from previous frameworks and languages.
If it would be ported back to C++ I'm sure there would be an efficiency gain
as well.

-- Henrik
 
T

Tomás

Henrik Goldman posted:
I've personally come to the conclusion that most Java and C#
programmers are less knowledged then average C++ programmers (at least
judging from the people I've met so far).


If I ever receive a blow to the head that dramatically decreases my
intelligence, I might take up Java so that I can continue programming as a
hobby.


-Tomás
 
M

Mirek Fidler

VirtualDev said:
By the coming of emerging "interpreted" language like java, c# and
others, can we say that C++ is dead, useless, or in other terms: there
is no need to learn it.

Why bother with fancy new languages when you can have done your work in
C++ faster, in less lines of code and with great runtime performance? ;)

Mirek
 
G

Gianni Mariani

VirtualDev said:
By the coming of emerging "interpreted" language like java, c# and
others, can we say that C++ is dead, useless, or in other terms: there
is no need to learn it. and why a great language like C++ with a big
community support doesn't have a common developpent framework. i
started porgramming 2 years ago with vb6, c and c++ ; but now i'm on
.net but i still love c++ and want to learn more!!!

Check out the results from the latest topcoder marathon match.
http://www.topcoder.com/longcontest/?module=ViewOverview&rd=9974

The C# winning entry was alot of very hard work.

Of the 50 leading entries, 47 are C++.
 
V

VirtualDev

Henrik said:
Indeed!

I do C++ programming every day and often it's funny to see how my friends
perform, when they go from C# or java back to C++ (usually because of our
university projects on embedded devices). They just don't understand
anything.

With C++ I personally feel much more knowledged then my friends. I almost
always know the answers to their questions even before they finished asking
them. Questions like "why does this program crash?" or in the like. Most of
them haven't even got the skills to run a debugger even though they've been
at the university for 4-5 years.

I've personally come to the conclusion that most Java and C# programmers are
less knowledged then average C++ programmers (at least judging from the
people I've met so far).

It's easy to say you're a master programmer when you get the underlying
system to do alot of the work for you. "ok so we just allocate a bit of
memory here and there and eventually we forget about it". This is what I've
heard from alot of people. But funny enough when they go back to C++ they
reveal to me they don't know anything about the core topics of programming.
This often shows by doing unsafe programming constructs and lack of error
checking.
I've recently supervised a student project where the student made so many
memory leaks, potential buffer overruns and similar so that the code under
no circumstances could be used for anything meaningful. It was better to
write it over from scratch then try to fix it.

Things like speed and platform compatibility is rarely considered by an
average C# or java programmer. Esp. C# programmers think Windows is the only
platform.

However there are different good things about C# and .NET esp. I personally
do a little C# programming also since some tasks are solved with only a few
lines of code whereas C++ would require a ton of extra libraries to perform
the same.
This has nothing to do with the language of course and only is an issue
about the runtime library.
It's not surprising though since the .NET runtime library has taken all good
stuff from previous frameworks and languages.
If it would be ported back to C++ I'm sure there would be an efficiency gain
as well.

-- Henrik

who could do this for us, i mean don't wait for M$ to do that.so can we
just dream of a large performant plateform for c++ that encapsulate all
like embedded systems, databse, imaging,...
i just want to know, couldn't we do that?
 
P

Phlip

VirtualDev said:
who could do this for us, i mean don't wait for M$ to do that.so can we
just dream of a large performant plateform for c++ that encapsulate all
like embedded systems, databse, imaging,...

Why would a unified system be a good thing? You are asking for a benevolent
dictatorship - whether MS or not.

I would rather have a system that makes things easy to mix and match. C++
gives some of that ability...

(The spit hits the fan when you ask for the mix and match system itself to
be unified. So you need an ORB. So you are back to the benevolent
dictatorship again;)
 
V

VirtualDev

don't you think that may be better to have them both a unified system
and the opportunity to make your own.
in my opinion that may be a good choice to renew the C++ spirit. cause
it means more companies will use C++ -> more developers will use C++ ->
more people learn C++.
about benevolent dictatorship, i don't really catch what it means.
sould you please explain more?
 
V

Victor Bazarov

loufoque said:
VirtualDev wrote :

Well, there is boost.

Uh... Are we saying that the Standard Library is some how not it?
Besides, what *is* common development framework? Development of
what, exactly? The spectrum of real-world programs written in C++
is sooooooooo wide, how can we expect anything common to exist for
them, really? I mean, beyond the most simple stuff...
 

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