Detecting CPUs and cores

T

Twisted

I am sure that many people would be happy to ask you do to that as well.

There's a big difference though. I'm right. You're wrong. Give it up
already!

[a bunch of nonsense snipped]
I suppose, in retrospect, that one could define a utility metric that
measures how well-off people are and use that as a definition: "people
deserve X" would be equivalent to "the utility metric Z would be higher
if X were the case"

That's basically the case, using freedom as the basis of the metric.
Maximizing it. The greatest self-determination for the greatest
number. I thought it was as obvious as the nose on my face that such a
metric is the basis for any rational determination of morals, ethics,
and public policy in a free and just society. Is it not?
In any case, a product selling for "little more" than the marginal cost
will not be found in the long term assuming that a given company will
take whatever measures it can to maximize profit, within bound of the
law. If it at any point in time it cannot make the normal rate of
return

You're assuming that under the conditions in question (namely, all
markets are quite competitive) that the "normal rate of return" won't
be much lower than it is now.

You're also assuming that commodities would continue to be provided by
for-profit companies as a profit center. That is likely not the case.
Commodities would be provided by for-profit companies as a loss-leader
to drive sales of non-commodities, and commodities would also likely
be provided by non-profit entities that pay the salaries of their
workers and do compete (as the workers would rather not lose their
jobs) and also claim tax benefits relative to for-profit entities.
In the process, supply of said product will decrease, increasing
the equilibrium price. Aggregating the suppliers together means that the
price will equalize at the level needed to achieve normal rate of return.

Ultimately, the normal rate of return would appear to influence
prices, but something surely influences the normal rate of return. I'd
speculate that dumping IP law and having the guy holding the "interest
rates" knob twist it fairly far to the left might do the job and
launch the next renaissance of human achievement and growth potential.
More likely, some alternate superefficient economy will arise and
leave the existing one eating dust. Possibly sentient machines, or
just automated point-trading systems resembling, and perhaps derived
from, the bandwidth allocation algorithms used by BitTorrent and its
ilk. There's always the next level up in competition -- the whole
system potentially encountering a competitor that might have superior
efficiency, and having to adapt to match, or die trying, or die for
lack of trying.
Beware of bugs in the above code

Indeed. Your posts to this thread lately are full of them. :p
 
T

Twisted

The problem is, the well-off people don't care about those savings
anyway, so the market for B is really rather limited. In fact, A may
find it more valuable being able to brag to his friends about how he
buys all of his games (say) at full price anyway. Humans have always
liked to flaunt their wealth when they have it. Admitting that you get
your stuff cheaper by having your neighbour collect coupons or
whatever may be socially embarrassing.

There'll always be the ability to sell gilt-plated versions to the
superrich who seek to buy status as well as the actual product or
service. I'm not denying this.

Curiously, a blog I routinely monitor, Architectures of Control
(http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk) recently linked to an article
on Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2133754) that discusses a closely
related concept and notes:

"A firm in a perfectly competitive market would suffer if it sabotaged
its cheapest products because rivals would jump at the opportunity to
steal alienated customers. Starbucks, with its coffee supremacy, can
afford this kind of price discrimination, thanks to loyal, or just
plain lazy, customers."

Yep -- luxury products are effectively exempt. And *Microsoft* of all
possible sources appears to agree with us on the behavior of perfectly
competitive markets (Microsoft knows its stuff; it just doesn't *like*
perfectly competitive markets. It knows it can't move into the luxury-
OS space and related spaces because that ground is firmly held by
Apple already. It's still smarting from the Zune fiasco in which they
got their lunch fed to them by a horde of angry iPods!)

Now perhaps you have some ideas about those "normal rates of return".
Is it just a matter of twisting the interest-rates knob? Even the
existence of a central such knob is an indication of collusion,
specifically in the lending sector, it seems.

The sketchy outline in my crystal ball currently looks like this:
2010: the IP system is imploding. Increasing foreign non-cooperation
with US-based laws (India is rejecting some questionable drug patents
as we speak; coverage at http://www.againstmonopoly.org and now also
Techdirt; also the rising fortunes of the Pirate Party in Europe and
similar developments), mass civil disobedience, defacto
unenforceability against noncommercial copying, and so forth render
copyrights and patents increasingly meaningless, and, importantly,
reduce their perceived value to corporations. DRM-like enforcement
regimes and private enforcement through mercenary-type methods abroad
have been tried a whole bunch and proven to be expensive failures. The
main use of DRM to turn a profit proves to be in copyright abuse vs.
legitimate customers, not anti-piracy usage, making legitimate
customers have to pay over the odds or otherwise enforce additional
restrictions that are unsupported by plain copyright law. That too has
failed as DRM now provokes rapid and violent revolt when applied in
any commodity markets. Vista has been at best a dubious half-assed
"success" for MS; Windows XP still has substantial market share and
Linux, with Ubuntu leading the charge, has been steadily encroaching
on the desktop market. With Linux climbing up from the market's low
end and Apple creeping down from the high end with more affordable
hardware and, perhaps, MacOS products unencumbered by hardware-
authenticating DRM, Microsoft is feeling the pinch and it is
increasingly viewed in the mainstream as having had its day in the
sun. Google is on slightly shakier ground as attempts to push paid
"software as a service" fail, privacy concerns dog its search and any
"software as a service" offerings increasingly, antitrust regulators
are increasingly scrutinizing and pestering it, and it has at least
one disaster involving acquiring a social-networking company at some
point. Worst is the beginning of a freenet-like DHT-derived
decentralized web successor, its expansion slow so far but showing
signs of an exponentiating trend. Fast networks, cheap storage, rent-a-
datacenter capabilities offered by Sun and soon by others, and p2p
based systems all prove to be agile in the hands of new-era companies
and more ad-hoc organizations whose business models are radically
unlike the old real-world, scarcity-minded models that currently still
dominate online and off. They are also agile at dodging the
increasingly thick swarm of incoming DDoS and hack-attack bullets,
while traditional ebusinesses are caught flat-footed with vulnerable
central servers at fixed IP addresses and fixed physical network
sites. Online on-demand services, with flat fees or even free, are
beginning to cut into radio and TV audiences noticeably. Ad-blocking
software is chewing up the online ad markets except for sponsored
search results, auction sites, and classifieds, and making unwanted
ads in the new on-demand media untenable. Costs are covered by making
more and more on-demand media virally distributed rather than
centrally. Youtube peaks and begins to decline as p2p based video
swapping grows, further paining Google. Profits are made by product
placements in video and by other methods, such as Amazon-type business
models involving physical goods. High quality video productions are
increasingly created for mere thousands of dollars, and the diversity
of sources is exponentiating, both geographically and in terms of who
makes stuff.

2015: The entire advertising sector is going into freefall and Big
Pharma and Big Entertainment are starting to quickly slide. Copyright
and patent laws remain on the books but are increasingly meaningless.
Enforcement schemes are still sometimes tried, and quickly hacked.
Physical-world issues, chiefly environmental and demographic-shift-
related, are further shaking up the traditional model. The old economy
is showing increasing strain and teetering on the brink of collapse.
Mad policies are enacted to prop it up, including fiddling with all
kinds of knobs and macroeconomic policies. Some countries are more
agile; China is one of them. New economic methods and systems,
increasingly powered and automated by computers and networks and with
vanishingly tiny transaction costs, are outcompeting old ones. New
forms of currency, some purely virtual, are exchanging against the
dollar and other old currencies, and smarter folk in the US are
quietly moving lots of their assets into the new economy and new
currencies. First geeks of moderate means and the odd wealthy geek;
then increasingly regular non-geeky rich folk. These wealth transfers
out of the old economy accelerate its slide. Traditional media is a
withered thing clung to by nostalgic old folks and the most desperate
reactionary sorts of conservative. This includes the so-called
"liberals" of the old Hollywood entertainment complex. People get such
a diverse variety of perspectives from various unofficial sources that
the fog of bullshit that has kept politics running and the status quo
maintained through the latter part of the twentieth and first decade
of the 21st is gone. The decentralized new media have killed it, and
changed the way leaders are elected and things run as surely as
television did before it, and radio and newspapers before that. (Hint:
Radio and newspapers made liberal market democracies stabler than
feudal societies. Television made the last sixty or so years the way
they were, politics-wise.) The final last-gasp attempts to enforce the
old order in some countries have failed, as agile ad-hoc wireless
broadband networks evade any and all attempts at government regulation
and corporate control. The most successful attacks are virus-based,
and the networks have enough internal diversity and robustness to
survive even these. Most other types of attack don't even cause any
damage; like filesharer-suing now, they take a single node offline and
throw some poor sap in jail or bankrupt him, but have no discernible
effect on the whole system. Stopping the onrushing future by such
methods is like trying to stop a tidal wave by arresting the water
molecules one by one and trying them in criminal court; the courthouse
is inundated before a few trials have been completed. Viruses and
large-scale physical violence are like firing cannon into the wave --
they actually make noticeable and perhaps-satisfying splashes before
those deploying the weapons get swept under.

by 2020: The tipping point is reached, probably triggered by wealth
transfers into the new forms of currency and panicked bail-outs of
failing old-model businesses by corporate elites. The old economy
collapses with shocking abruptness; every major pre-existing stock
market is wiped out in a day, the DOW starting one weekday at maybe
15,000 and valued at pennies by the closing bell, and so forth. So
much productivity is centered on the new economy that the disruption
isn't as severe as one might imagine, though it's by no means mild.
The political structure of the US is left in a shambles, however, and
the US begins to splinter into independent states. Those slowest to
cut dependencies on the fortunes of the old economy are wiped out.
Some of the US-fragments are basically third-world countries; others,
such as California, remain affluent though heavily changed
(particularly as Hollywood is basically gone). Many other countries
have been rocked too, as much by the changed media landscape and lack
of media concentration and by the free flow of information over the
net as by the economic chaos. And the next big upheaval is already
taking shape: the first strong signs of the end of scarcity in many
material items. Home fabbing is becoming noticeably more common and
poised for exponential takeoff. And there's that whole AI thing, and
the new medical technologies that can greatly reduce aging, cure
cancer, and enhance humans even beyond "normal" in many areas from
sense acuity to intelligence...promising far more radical changes than
even an end to material scarcity.

2030: Can't see anything but fog this far out. I don't know if it's
huge uncertainties or that stuff called "utility fog" though. It's
ubiquitous, whatever it is; the world has changed more between 2007
and 2030 than it had changed between 11,500 BC and 2007 and that's the
only safe prediction.
 
B

Bent C Dalager

There'll always be the ability to sell gilt-plated versions to the
superrich who seek to buy status as well as the actual product or
service. I'm not denying this.

Indeed, but this extends into the modern middle class (in historical
terms, of course, the modern middle class /is/ super-rich). That's why
you see expensive preorders, collectors' editions, limited editions
etc. They often only cost $10-20 more than the regular product, but
even at twice the price they're selling like hotcakes. Alternatively
they'll keep issuing new editions with minor changes that will have
the fans loyally buying each and every one.
Now perhaps you have some ideas about those "normal rates of return".

The idea that you won't be making any net profits in a completely
competitive marketplace isn't entirely correct. If the best guaranteed
return on investment you can have from govt bonds and the like is,
say, 2%, then any fully competitive industry will in fact end up
making a 2% net profit (or ever so slightly above that) at
equilibrium. The reason being that once the industry drops below a 2%
net profit, some investors will remove their money from the industry
and put it elsewhere. Some businesses (the ones that just lost their
capital) will reduce production or go under entirely. Less supply
leads to higher prices, and the net profit will slide up to or above
2% again.

Furthermore, a key phrase in the preceding is "at equilibrium". The
market is very often (almost always I expect) /not/ at equilibrium -
there are constant fluctuations in all of the variables that go into
defining the sector (availability of capital, price and availability
of labour, political developments, interest rates, currency exchange
rates, and so forth) and the industry necessarily needs some time to
adjust. By the time they have adjusted, the variables will have
changed again. And in an industry that is not in equilibrium, clever
manufacturers will find a way to exploit that to their advantage -
raising their profits above what the theory says they should be.

One of the most important factors that upset this equilibrium is the
existence of superior, newly-developed, competing products. It follows
that the best way to make more than the above-mentioned 2% net profit
is by developing superior product and then to milk the market while
the competition is racing to catch up.

This is true for every industry that is reasonably competitive.
Content-based industries are not in any way special. It's as true for
tooth paste as it is for a Harry Potter book.

Cheers
Bent D
 
T

Twisted

The idea that you won't be making any net profits in a completely
competitive marketplace isn't entirely correct.

It's also not what I meant to imply -- only that the profits would be
fairly thin.
One of the most important factors that upset this equilibrium is the
existence of superior, newly-developed, competing products. It follows
that the best way to make more than the above-mentioned 2% net profit
is by developing superior product and then to milk the market while
the competition is racing to catch up.

That's the ideal, yes. That's why competitive markets foster
innovation and (state-granted or otherwise) monopolies do not despite
the hype by pro-IP types.
 
J

Joshua Cranmer

Twisted said:
That's basically the case, using freedom as the basis of the metric.
Maximizing it. The greatest self-determination for the greatest
number. I thought it was as obvious as the nose on my face that such a
metric is the basis for any rational determination of morals, ethics,
and public policy in a free and just society. Is it not?

Freedom is somewhat intangible; you still have not defined a utility
metric: a *number* that I can cull up from mashing economic statistics,
like U(X) = price of a Big Mac / time worked to create that Big Mac.

[Snip load of BS]

Wow, now I see why you like doing that!
Ultimately, the normal rate of return would appear to influence
prices, but something surely influences the normal rate of return.

Am I denying that? No.
I'd speculate that dumping IP law and having the guy holding the "interest
rates" knob twist it fairly far to the left might do the job and
launch the next renaissance of human achievement and growth potential.

It might also send inflation rates soaring above 10%.
Indeed. Your posts to this thread lately are full of them. :p

How much code have I posted in this thread? Exactly 0 characters.
How many times have I quoted something yet mangled the context? Less
than you have.
 
T

Twisted

Freedom is somewhat intangible, blah, blah, blah...

The truly important things often are. But an economic proxy could be
margins. Fat margins suggest lack of choice on the part of consumers.
[Snip load of BS]

ExCUSE me? I do not post BS; you post BS, remember? :p
It might also send inflation rates soaring above 10%.

And you came up with this figure how? The tried and true butt-trumpet
method perhaps? :p
How much code have I posted in this thread? Exactly 0 characters.

Your Java code isn't where the bugs are, I'm afraid.

[accuses me of intentional misquoting]

ExCUSE me?

Apologize!
 
R

Roedy Green

You neglect to note that doing so is underhanded and dishonest.
Advocating discriminatory pricing?

Charging based on value rather than cost is common. Consider:

1. cut rate for taking your kids to the movies or a drive in.
2. cut rate for your kid for a seat on the train.
3. movies cost more when they first come out.
4. the incremental cost of producing CDs is negligible, yet everyone
gets charged the same.
5. Your business phone line costs more than a home phone.
6. cheaper to travel on standby.
7. cheaper to stay in a hotel in the off season.

Where is the deception? Honesty is not the issue if you don't deceive
people what you are offering for what price. GOUGING can come into
consideration if you have managed a monopoly or quasi monopoly
position.
 
T

Twisted

Charging based on value rather than cost is common. Consider:

1. cut rate for taking your kids to the movies or a drive in.
2. cut rate for your kid for a seat on the train.

Non sequitur. Why suppose a kid derives less value from a movie? In
some of these cases also the kid costs less to serve, especially if
food is involved.
3. movies cost more when they first come out.

People who've seen it already drop out of the market, so demand drops,
so price drops. This is supply and demand, not price discrimination.
4. the incremental cost of producing CDs is negligible, yet everyone
gets charged the same.

That's monopoly power at the manufacturing end. Bargain-bin CDs result
from, among other things, secondary market effects and lack of
monopoly power at the retail level.
5. Your business phone line costs more than a home phone.

Your business phone line has special features, such as hold and
multiple caller capacity, and probably a higher guarantee of
availability and prompt maintenance. It might also be the case that
it's expected by the phone company to carry more traffic on average,
raising their costs.
6. cheaper to travel on standby.
7. cheaper to stay in a hotel in the off season.

Supply and demand again.

None of these examples points to abusive pricing; there are normal
market-forces explanations for such to occur even in a perfectly
competitive market.
Where is the deception?

I said dishonest, and I meant it less in the deception sense than in
the dishonorable behavior sense. Gouging is dishonorable, I'm sure
you'll agree. And of course gouging for people to use software on dual-
core machines or suchlike is especially so. And it IS gouging, since
no properly competitive market would allow such pricing to be
sustained given the low costs involved in the product being delivered,
and those costs not being proportional to the number of cores!
GOUGING can come into consideration if you have managed a monopoly or quasi monopoly
position.

As software makers with copyrights always seem to have.
 
J

Joshua Cranmer

Twisted said:
People who've seen it already drop out of the market, so demand drops,
so price drops. This is supply and demand, not price discrimination.

He proved his point: the charging is not based on the cost. It doesn't
cost any less to make a movie two months after its initial release. To
use a quote from another of your threads:

Will you stop ARGUING and just LISTEN?
None of these examples points to abusive pricing; there are normal
market-forces explanations for such to occur even in a perfectly
competitive market.

You and Roedy are looking past each other. He's arguing that charging is
based on value rather than cost. You're arguing that pricing is abusive.
 
T

Twisted

[snip bulk of attack post, thankfully the only one aimed at me in the
past 24 hours]
You and Roedy are looking past each other. He's arguing that charging is
based on value rather than cost. You're arguing that pricing is abusive.

His fault if so. Abusive pricing is the issue, and especially his pet
idea of taking all of our functionality away from us and renting it
back to us for some low, low monthly rate that will add up and add up
and add up. And competitive markets make abusive pricing self-
defeating.

A lot of his examples are inapplicable to software, anyway. They
involved physical goods that can easily get scarce and produce supply-
and-demand effects on pricing. Absent scarcity and given healthy
competition, prices should stay near marginal costs. A particular
piece of software, of course, once written is never scarce unless
artificially scarce, which brings us right back around to abusive
pricing and uncompetitive markets again...
 
?

=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=

Daniel said:
That's the theory, but it's less clear cut than with a "proper" dual
core chip. There is anecdotal evidence of people turning *off*
Hyper-Threading in the BIOS to improve the performance of their
applications.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39237341,00.htm
http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t54590.html

I think the "turn of HT" idea is still widely used, but without
any foundation.

It is very easy to make tests that show up to 30% effect of HT
on multithreaded Java apps.

I seem to recall that when HT first came out there were indeed
a problem with current SUN JVM where it gave sligtly worse
performance due to cache issues but it was fixed in the next
release (which must have been 1.4.something).

But I can not find the article via Google. And a quick test
with SUN Java 1.2.2, 1.3.1, 1.4.2 and 1.5.0 did not find the
problem.

But I will strongly recommend people to turn on HT today.

Arne
 

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