Free(real Free) GUI toolkits

[David Ross]

One was your request for comment about the
WideStudio GUI toolkit.

I was requesting useful comments, not troll comments.

I told you my impression that i don't like the GUI
toolkit for a
number of reasons i mentionend
(you never replied about the problems, just "send
patches").

The reason for that is you just troll troll troll all
over issues. Its not even constructive criticism. You
comments are 1) untrue - you don't even try them, 2)
you dont care about them - only your precious arachno
matters 3) business warfare - hit them hard with
mudslinging and untrue trolling.

"Send Patches" := you are a uberl33t programmer who
likes saying everything else sucks, you fix it then
mr. 31337.

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=...de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.ruby&start=75
I didn't write any sentence about the IDE, just one
about the GUI
Builder which i don't like and don't find very
comfortable to work.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...15.20040801142810%40scriptolutions.com&rnum=1

Right.. that email must not exist. Saying that it is
good a project is dead is one of the *best* trollish
comments ever.

There are others if you really want me to post all of
them.

The other posting was a reply to your message about
KDevelop in the
Editor Thread:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=...de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.ruby&start=75
Where you recommended KDevelop as a good ruby editor
and mentioning
that it supports Code completition and other things
that are working
only with C++. I said that KDevelop is a very bad
recommendation for
someone asking for a ruby editor. This was the
point. You simple
didn't understand the posting.

Yes, a point to manipulate people in to thinking that
the IDE does not perform well for ruby code. The fact
that you didn't read or ask how to set it up properly
so it would made me mad. Do you always make idiot
comments about software without using them?

Yes i will still post critical statements about
software and
programming here.

Don't post lies then, Thanks.

Newsgroups are for discussion: We can stop
discussing things and
just come together smoke some dope and tell each
other how wonderful
the world is.

Instead of saying everything sucks, maybe you can help
I'm prove existing code. Isn't that one of the points
of Open Source Software? Yes it is. Thanks for
wasting 3 minutes of my time. --David




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[Mike Hall]

..., there aren't ANY toolkits that do
any better than that for cross-platform with OSX.

Tcl/Tk Aqua for OS X?

 

[Rando Christensen]

Tcl/Tk Aqua for OS X?

Okay, that one is native, but from what I've used of it (Given, this was
only for one project and I don't remember which. It was a while ago), it
looks horrible, and feels even less like a cocoa application than Gtk+
under X.

 

[Nicholas Van Weerdenburg]

Well put.

I for one appreciate your insight and well-balanced comments and would
feel poorer if you didn't keep them up.

Nick

 

[Rando Christensen]

Well put.

I for one appreciate your insight and well-balanced comments and would
feel poorer if you didn't keep them up.

Nick

Yeah, I haven't really seen Lothar post anything that I would consider
trolling, And I agree with him on quite a few points.

 

[Ruby Script]

Hello jim,




jfo> Wow. I am suprised to hear that. I always thought of FLTK as
jfo> a fast and lean toolkit. Can you explain more.

"Fast and lean toolkit" and "nice and beautiful" are different things.
Right ? FLTK is the first but not the second. Thats what i said.

FLTK 2.0 has some theming support (don't know how much and which
quality) but FLTK 2.0 is as far away as GNU HURD.

I just tried out FLTK 1.1.5rc2 and it does indeed support "themes". But
they call it "schemes" so maybe that's the source of confusion.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://seriss.com/people/erco/fltk/chooser_patch/choice-mod.gif

Other screenshots of FLTK apps which make me think it isn't ugly:

http://www.easysw.com/htmldoc/shots.php
http://www-timc.imag.fr/Yves.Usson/personnel/FLE/calcsci1.png
http://www.osc.edu/~jbryan/VolSuite/images/screenshot.png

 

[Carl Youngblood]

It's amazing to see how much one bad apple can spoil the barrel.
David, one of the many differences between you and Lothar is that when
Lothar disagrees with someone, he can discuss it civilly without
resorting to ad hominem attacks or four-letter words. And he is not
presumptuous enough to assume that, just because someone disagrees
with him, they are either insane or hopelessly stupid. He also does
not assume that, if someone says something erroneous about his
software, they did it with malicious "trollish" intent. In other
words, he is a nice guy. Please try to learn something from him.

 

[David Ross]

It's amazing to see how much one bad apple can spoil

the barrel.
David, one of the many differences between you and
Lothar is that when
Lothar disagrees with someone, he can discuss it
civilly without
resorting to ad hominem attacks or four-letter
words. And he is not
presumptuous enough to assume that, just because
someone disagrees
with him, they are either insane or hopelessly
stupid. He also does
not assume that, if someone says something erroneous
about his
software, they did it with malicious "trollish"
intent. In other
words, he is a nice guy. Please try to learn
something from him.

Wow, you are right. I can learn how to troll and tell
disgusting lies about software. The best skill I would
ever be able to have. --David Ross



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[Hal Fulton]

Wow, you are right. I can learn how to troll and tell
disgusting lies about software. The best skill I would
ever be able to have. --David Ross

It will probably do no good to say this, but I have been
on this list since 1999, and fully 50% of the negativity
I have seen has been in the last 60-90 days.

One person is responsible, and it isn't Lothar.

My plea to you, David, would be to start out simply: Go for
at least 24 hours without insulting anyone, using inflammatory
language, reversing the blame, or using the t-word.

Once you achieve that, we can try for a full week.


Hal

 

[Sean O'Dell]

Wow, you are right. I can learn how to troll and tell
disgusting lies about software. The best skill I would
ever be able to have. --David Ross

I think the problem is you're reading too much into Lothar's words.

I suspect English isn't his native language from the way he writes (possibly
German), and quite often minor differences in what a native English speaker
and a non-native speaker would write creates huge misunderstandings in terms
of content as well as tone.

For example, I know many of my German friends whose English isn't 100% will
respond quite often with the English phrase "that's not interesting to me."
I suspect it has an equivalent colloquial in German that is perfectly
harmless, but to my English ears, it's wholly distasteful.

But also, in general, participating online can lead to misunderstandings even
between native speakers, and it helps to simply take everything with a grain
of salt, knowing you might not be gauging their intention as accurately as
you think. People says things meaning no harm, but without the benefit of
in-person voice inflection, you can never know *precisely* how they meant it.

Try and not assume venom in Lothar's words, and allow yourself to hear honest
criticism of your work. From everything I've read, he's seems completely
even-handed and is being more than fair with you.

But if you can't comes to terms with Lothar, take it to private email with him
at least, would you? Leave this ML for discussions about Ruby.

Sean O'Dell

 

[David Ross]

I'm sorry, I don't like being told software that is
widely used it "crap", I will not tolerate such
remarks. --David Ross

It will probably do no good to say this, but I have
been
on this list since 1999, and fully 50% of the
negativity
I have seen has been in the last 60-90 days.

One person is responsible, and it isn't Lothar.

My plea to you, David, would be to start out simply:
Go for
at least 24 hours without insulting anyone, using
inflammatory
language, reversing the blame, or using the t-word.

Once you achieve that, we can try for a full week.


Hal

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[David Ross]

For example, I know many of my German friends whose

English isn't 100% will
respond quite often with the English phrase "that's
not interesting to me."
I suspect it has an equivalent colloquial in German
that is perfectly
harmless, but to my English ears, it's wholly
distasteful.

Sean O'Dell

I am aware of language descepencies, but I don't think
saying, "Furthermore, I am glad this toolkit is dead"
is one of them.

--David Ross







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[Sean O'Dell]

I am aware of language descepencies, but I don't think
saying, "Furthermore, I am glad this toolkit is dead"
is one of them.

That phrase is hardly something to get worked up over. You're being
overly-sensitive. Either way, take it to private email with him. The Ruby
ML has a purpose, and this isn't it.

Sean O'Dell

 

[Lothar Scholz]

Hello David,

DR> I am aware of language descepencies, but I don't think
DR> saying, "Furthermore, I am glad this toolkit is dead"

I have to full right to say:

"I am glad this toolkit is dead".
^^^
Read the first word multiple times until you understand the meaning of
"I". Maybe a simple word is easier to understand for you then the 500
words in my argument list that i had written before taking this conclusion.

You can see this message as the last reply to any message you
post to this newsgroup under any of your sender names "David Ross", "H. Simpson"
or "Ruby Script".

**PLONK**

 

[Nicholas Van Weerdenburg]

The supreme irony of a troll trolling about trolling. Or is that a troll
trolling about trolls trolling?

Surreal.

 

[Nicholas Van Weerdenburg]

That's good to hear. I've only been on the mailing list for 90 days, so
my perspective was getting warped. I look forward for the return to the
famously friendly newsgroup.

 

[Luis Felipe Strano Moraes]

Hello,

I have been learning more about OO and design patterns now,
and I work at a place where most (actually, I thinks it's all)
of our software development is web related, and it's mostly
PHP and some minor projects are in python.
We are considering starting a project here using Ruby, and
perhaps RubyOnRails (btw David, thanks alot for instiki),
but I really can't see how I could apply OO design to a web
project.
I was wondering if any of you know of a good example I could
take a look at, or if you could share some tips, or links
perhaps.

Thanks,
--lf

 

[James Britt]

Luis Felipe Strano Moraes wrote:

...

but I really can't see how I could apply OO design to a web
project.

Could you perhaps say why you think that?

Would you expect to apply OO design if it was the same application,
except all input and output was at the command line?


James

 

[Carl Youngblood]

Just look at Ruby on Rails. It has a great OO framework that follows
the MVC (Model View Controller) pattern.

 

[Luis Felipe Strano Moraes]

Could you perhaps say why you think that?

Would you expect to apply OO design if it was the same application,
except all input and output was at the command line?

I haven't developed anything meaningful object-oriented application
yet, so perhaps my problem is that I can't really see where to
apply it.
I can think of places to apply OO design on the applications (even if
they were CLI), but they were only going to be some small stuff.
One of the applications we develop is a kind of FAQ system, where
people can send questions, and anyone who is registered on the
system can answer them. I can think of an object-oriented way of
re-writing this system, but I don't know where to put alot of
stuff (specially the web display stuff).
Dunno if I'm making myself clear (english is not my first language,
and even tough it may seem that I am partially good at it, still
there are always problems when trying to express yourself with it) .

--lf