7.0 wishlist?

[Arne Vajhøj]

Yes, it does, and if you insult me in public ONE MORE TIME I'll ...

Have to live with it.

And if you post one of your usual rants, then we will just
laugh even more of you.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

>

Another Paul/Twepie/<insert> about 10 identities here> account.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

[snip]

NO. DO NOT POST WHILE I AM STILL CATCHING UP. WAIT 24 HOURS FIRST.

Dear Twerpie - when do you learn that nobody cares about what you say ?

Not only that, but a quick google search of the newsgroup for each of
your names turns up, in most cases, several longish threads at various
times in the past several months. Examining these threads shows that
you have gotten embroiled in similar, if less bitter, disputes with
several other people in the newsgroup, most of whom appear to have
been trying to participate in discussions of Java programming in good
faith, only to get increasingly irritated by your incessant nitpicking
and minor public putdowns -- same way it started with me.

You mean we pointed out the mistakes in the posts you made from
some of your other accounts ?

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

We weren't talking about me, you idiot, we were talking about Paul. Or
had you forgotten?

Since you are Paul then ...

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Harold Yarmouth schreef:



None of the nasty things "Harold" says or implies about you, Hendrik,
are true.

Very little of what "Harold" says are true ...

Arne

 

[Joshua Cranmer]

We are discussing the best Usenet newsgroup for this topic. Non-Usenet
fora are not relevant to such a discussion.

Usenet is not the end-all of the internet. It stopped being so at least
a decade ago. In fact, much of Usenet has descended into death, anarchy,
or just plain obscurity.

If you prefer mailing lists to newsgroups, that's your own personal
choice, and there is an appropriate way to act on it (go there yourself)
and an inappropriate way (try to force your preferences upon others).

I despise mailing lists myself, so many problems that I care not to
repeat here (especially Mailman... that software should just die).

If you want your ideas to be relegated to obscurity, then go ahead, post
to c.l.j.p. If you want people to debate their inclusion in Java, then
go to those mailing lists.

Are you hard of hearing? I just said "I'm not a Sun engineer or bigwig
..." and it's quoted right there above. I should think that I know more
than you do about whether or not I'm a Sun engineer!

You have access to the full source code of Java, including the VM,
compiler, and library. It's called OpenJDK.

I barely have time to defend myself against your latest round of public
insinuations about me.

If you're exasperated about this, why not stop?

Your discussions with spec writers are not relevant here. Try
alt.writing.fiction or similar.

You are proposing inclusions to a specification. Discussing with spec
writers about how to get stuff included is quite relevant.

Then he's as thick-skinned (and rude) a person as you are. Perhaps
that's a birds-of-a-feather thing -- or simply because nobody else could
stand having you for a roommate.

Would you like me to canvas a larger audience?

I find that unlikely. My personality is, in a nutshell, "civilized".

"Being told I'm wrong is equivalent to an insult." That's not civilized.
That's self-aggrandizing snobbery, since it implies you're absolutely
/perfect/. Ask the Chinese how that turns out in practice.

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

Arrays in Java *are* passed by value !

That is even wronger than my previous claims about "call by reference".

The official "truth" is, that arrays aren't passed at all,
but instead *references to arrays* are passed by value.

 

[Mike Schilling]

That is even wronger than my previous claims about "call by
reference".

The official "truth" is, that arrays aren't passed at all,
but instead *references to arrays* are passed by value.

'Struth. Everything is Java is passed by value, where "everything"
includes

1. instances of primitive type
2. references to objects.
3. null (which is not a refernece to any object)

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

A language that can only be coded in an IDE, because it can not
be typed in using a standard text editor sounds as a very bad
idea to me.

Arne

I had no trouble typing the ⊕ symbol on my normal PC keyboard. It's as
easy as π or ✈. Whether *your* currently selected font is capable of
rendering it is a different matter.

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

3. null (which is not a refernece to any object)

In my eyes, null is just "a reference to *no* object".

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

I had no trouble typing the ⊕ symbol on my normal PC keyboard. It's as
easy as π or ✈. Whether *your* currently selected font is capable of
rendering it is a different matter.

I'm curious about how you did it. Is it some OS-hack like the Alt-Ascii
just for unicodes? Or did you apply a special keyboard-layout with
certain extra codes or compose-keys?

PS: The third one, is that supposed to be an aeroplane?

 

[Hendrik Maryns]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

RedGrittyBrick schreef:

I had no trouble typing the ⊕ symbol on my normal PC keyboard. It's as
easy as π or ✈. Whether *your* currently selected font is capable of
rendering it is a different matter.

Ah, and how did you? See
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/keyboard.shtml for getting some
extra symbols on your keyboard in Linux, but in the end you only have
around 47 keys along with four modifiers available for typing symbols.
If you want more, you’ll need something like CJK input methods, or am I
totally at a loss here?

H.
- --
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkkcEFgACgkQBGFP0CTku6NhIACgkiWz3LpUKeDCxXdyejMtzVIe
j6MAn04A0jqvc1I6+FmfG9gCXT6v8JS1
=9HYW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

I'm curious about how you did it. Is it some OS-hack like the Alt-Ascii
just for unicodes? Or did you apply a special keyboard-layout with
certain extra codes or compose-keys?

There are many ways of doing it. My point is that it is possible, not
that it is convenient.

In many Microsoft apps, such as Wordpad, you can enter any Unicode
character by typing the hex digits followed by Alt+X (e.g. 2295 Alt+X).
As you noted, in most Windows applications you can use the Alt key and
the numeric keypad to enter the decimal code-point of a unicode
character (e.g. Alt+8853).

I find it isn't convenient to remember hex (or decimal) code-points, my
favourite text editor lets me define digraphs so that, for example, I
can type ⊕ by typing Ctrl+K 0+

PS: The third one, is that supposed to be an aeroplane?

It was, before your SLRN mistranslated everything from UTF8 into
ISO-8859-1

 

[Hendrik Maryns]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Andreas Leitgeb schreef:
Indeed you, Andreas seem to have some problems with your newsreader. I
thought slrn was so highly configurable, this shouldn’t be a problem,
should it?

RGB’s message clearly had

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

in it.

I'm curious about how you did it. Is it some OS-hack like the Alt-Ascii
just for unicodes? Or did you apply a special keyboard-layout with
certain extra codes or compose-keys?

PS: The third one, is that supposed to be an aeroplane?

Yes.
- --
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkkcE0EACgkQBGFP0CTku6M6JgCfdcv4oNDmngrt65W6rNDOBZzM
HF0AoKDL9kLPGaGKRvrPBJOcx556XVbf
=Vlx3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

RedGrittyBrick schreef:

Ah, and how did you? See

See my earlier reply to Andreas.

http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/keyboard.shtml for getting some
extra symbols on your keyboard in Linux, but in the end you only have
around 47 keys along with four modifiers available for typing symbols.

True, and you can use a key or combination as a dead-key. As you'll
know, with some keyboard layouts (logical not physical) in Microsoft
Windows you use the key to the left of 1 as a dead key, e.g. followed by
a to produce à. I imagine Linux and X11 provide a similar range of
capabilities.

If you want more, you’ll need something like CJK input methods, or am I
totally at a loss here?

If I had the time and knowledge, I'd write an IME (or logical keyboard
layout AKA text-service?) that allowed the user to define digraphs such
as 0+ that could be used with a dead-key such as Alt-Gr. I'd distribute
it with the RFC1345 set of mnemonics. As far as I know such a thing does
not exist for Windows.

Since my preferred text editor is standard in Linux, available in
Windows, supports Unicode and has a handy and extensible set of
digraphs, I can always use that.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

Which editor has this feature?

If I say "the one true editor" you'll have a 50% chance of guessing right.

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

for example, I can type ⊕ by typing Ctrl+K 0+

And how does one compose an aeroplane?

It was, before your SLRN mistranslated everything from UTF8 into
ISO-8859-1

It was just a declaration error. Unfortunately, slrn doesn't
detect the charset from the text automatically. I admit, that
misdeclaration is just as bad as misencoding.
I'm now manually declaring the charset (which I forgot to do in
my previous post). Let's see if it works this time.

PS: that all said, it would still be goofy for a language
to *require* non-ascii chars for certain features.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

And how does one compose an aeroplane?

Ah! My first thought was -> or ap (for AirPlane).

Given ~100,000 Unicode characters and only ~9000 ASCII digraphs, to use
-> I'd have to load a subject specific digraph dictionary that uses ->
for ✈ instead of the → it produces by default.

By default the digraph ap produces, ã± (Hiraganan letter pa) because if
the editor doesn't find a match it tries the pair in the other order.
This is so that you don't have to remember whether to type -> or >-. By
defining a digraph ap, I can have airplane, Hiragana pa and →.

I'm not sure I could remember 9000 digraphs anyway. However if I was
writing ⊕ a lot in programs, I'd be able to remember o+ without a problem.

It was just a declaration error. Unfortunately, slrn doesn't
detect the charset from the text automatically. I admit, that
misdeclaration is just as bad as misencoding.
I'm now manually declaring the charset (which I forgot to do in
my previous post). Let's see if it works this time.

Much better thanks

PS: that all said, it would still be goofy for a language
to *require* non-ascii chars for certain features.

I agree. The situation isn't hypothetical though. A long time ago I
encountered APL on IBM mainframes, IIRC at that time you couldn't
program APL in ASCII, you needed a special keyboard and display.

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

Ah! My first thought was -> or ap (for AirPlane).

I'm also using â…µ (cool, which other editor has a single unicode char
for its name , but here neither the 0+,o+,O+ nor -> digraphs are
assigned the same way as they seem to be on your machine.

I agree. The situation isn't hypothetical though. A long time ago I
encountered APL on IBM mainframes, IIRC at that time you couldn't
program APL in ASCII, you needed a special keyboard and display.

Heh, I've played with APL back in the days where PCs were equipped
with CGA (and the newer ones EGA) cards. some APL shareware switched
to 320x200 graphics mode, which was even more eye-shattering than the
text mode. Never did anything productive with it, though.
Yes, it was goofy (and from what you say, I take it that they
meanwhile switched to ascii, anyway)

 

[Harold Yarmouth]

We are discussing the best Usenet newsgroup for this topic. Non-Usenet
fora are not relevant to such a discussion.

[insults me]

Let's see, that makes straw man and ad hominem. How many more fallacies
do you know? It's going to be fun to find out!

Weird conclusion.

That would be "appeal to belief" (on the inverse claim), or possibly
"appeal to ridicule" (if calling a claim "weird" qualifies as ridiculing
it).

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-belief.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

Everybody posting agrees with Joshua except for you 6-7 identities.

This accusation again!

I am only the one identity. Actually, I am not an "identity" at all, I
am a person.

(And this one, and many of your others, would be "poisoning the well".

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html)