Ajax makes a round trip doesn't it?

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by needin4mation@gmail.com, Sep 23, 2005.

  1. Guest

    I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
    here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group, but
    it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the obvious:

    I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
    I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
    postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
    the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip to
    the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
    Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
    every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

    For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
    proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to the
    server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep the
    current page and in the background have the correct city come up.

    But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
    to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
    feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
    understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.
     
    , Sep 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. Hello ,

    The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't everywhere) is
    the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when a postback happens,
    the entire page is reprocessed and the html is re-delivered to the client
    (with any changes). Ajax allows you to do the round-trips to the server
    with only the data that you really need. For example, with maps.google.com.
    It asks for new images for parts of maps you are looking at behind the scene.
    In the old days, you would repost the whole page and the experience for
    the user was more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a future, but in truth...we've
    done Ajax for years...we are now finally getting a framework (Atlas I think?)
    to do some of the heavy lifting.

    Thanks,
    Shawn Wildermuth
    Speaker, Author and C# MVP

    > I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
    > here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
    > but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
    > obvious:
    >
    > I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
    > I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
    > postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
    > the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip
    > to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
    > Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
    > every problems), but I'm not quite sure.
    >
    > For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
    > proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to
    > the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep
    > the current page and in the background have the correct city come up.
    >
    > But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
    > to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
    > feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
    > understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.
    >
     
    Shawn Wildermuth, Sep 23, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. I'm new to the idea of Ajax (I know it's a hot topic sometime before, but
    somehow I just ignored the topics.). But it just sounds like having a
    <iframe> for updating data will do the similar thing, won't it?

    "Shawn Wildermuth" <>
    ???????:...
    > Hello ,
    >
    > The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't everywhere) is
    > the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when a postback happens,
    > the entire page is reprocessed and the html is re-delivered to the client
    > (with any changes). Ajax allows you to do the round-trips to the server
    > with only the data that you really need. For example, with
    > maps.google.com. It asks for new images for parts of maps you are looking
    > at behind the scene. In the old days, you would repost the whole page and
    > the experience for the user was more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a
    > future, but in truth...we've done Ajax for years...we are now finally
    > getting a framework (Atlas I think?) to do some of the heavy lifting.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Shawn Wildermuth
    > Speaker, Author and C# MVP
    >
    >> I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
    >> here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
    >> but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
    >> obvious:
    >>
    >> I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
    >> I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
    >> postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
    >> the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip
    >> to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
    >> Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
    >> every problems), but I'm not quite sure.
    >>
    >> For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
    >> proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to
    >> the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep
    >> the current page and in the background have the correct city come up.
    >>
    >> But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
    >> to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
    >> feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
    >> understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Lau Lei Cheong, Sep 23, 2005
    #3
  4. A good summary on AJAX can be found at:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX

    Personally, I like a lot of things about AJAX (the improved response,
    the seamless user experience, etc.), but if it's not done right there
    can be some big pains, like lack of bookmarkability, back button not
    working as expected, and so on.




    wrote:
    > I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
    > here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group, but
    > it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the obvious:
    >
    > I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
    > I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
    > postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
    > the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip to
    > the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
    > Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
    > every problems), but I'm not quite sure.
    >
    > For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
    > proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to the
    > server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep the
    > current page and in the background have the correct city come up.
    >
    > But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
    > to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
    > feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
    > understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.
    >



    --

    Scott Mitchell [ASP.NET MVP]

    http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com/ScottMitchell
     
    Scott Mitchell [MVP], Sep 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Sure, if you want a whole section to work in an IFrame. It's simply using
    JScript to load data from teh server. NOt rocket science.

    Thanks,
    Shawn Wildermuth
    Speaker, Author and C# MVP

    > I'm new to the idea of Ajax (I know it's a hot topic sometime before,
    > but somehow I just ignored the topics.). But it just sounds like
    > having a <iframe> for updating data will do the similar thing, won't
    > it?
    >
    > "Shawn Wildermuth" <>
    > ???????:...
    >
    >> Hello ,
    >>
    >> The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't
    >> everywhere) is the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when
    >> a postback happens, the entire page is reprocessed and the html is
    >> re-delivered to the client (with any changes). Ajax allows you to do
    >> the round-trips to the server with only the data that you really
    >> need. For example, with maps.google.com. It asks for new images for
    >> parts of maps you are looking at behind the scene. In the old days,
    >> you would repost the whole page and the experience for the user was
    >> more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a future, but in truth...we've
    >> done Ajax for years...we are now finally getting a framework (Atlas I
    >> think?) to do some of the heavy lifting.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Shawn Wildermuth
    >> Speaker, Author and C# MVP
    >>> I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
    >>> here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
    >>> but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
    >>> obvious:
    >>>
    >>> I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will.
    >>> But I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the
    >>> server, no postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something*
    >>> makes a trip to the server? It may be int the background, but there
    >>> still is a trip to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure
    >>> of the benefit. Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax
    >>> isn't correct for every problems), but I'm not quite sure.
    >>>
    >>> For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code
    >>> the proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback
    >>> to the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can
    >>> keep the current page and in the background have the correct city
    >>> come up.
    >>>
    >>> But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of
    >>> time to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it
    >>> doesn't feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just
    >>> trying to understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.
    >>>
     
    Shawn Wildermuth, Sep 23, 2005
    #5
  6. Mr Newbie Guest

    I used to use Ajax to clean my toilet. Sounds like nothing much has changed
    !

    ;o)




    "Shawn Wildermuth" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Sure, if you want a whole section to work in an IFrame. It's simply using
    > JScript to load data from teh server. NOt rocket science.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Shawn Wildermuth
    > Speaker, Author and C# MVP
    >
    >> I'm new to the idea of Ajax (I know it's a hot topic sometime before,
    >> but somehow I just ignored the topics.). But it just sounds like
    >> having a <iframe> for updating data will do the similar thing, won't
    >> it?
    >>
    >> "Shawn Wildermuth" <>
    >> ???????:...
    >>
    >>> Hello ,
    >>>
    >>> The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't
    >>> everywhere) is the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when
    >>> a postback happens, the entire page is reprocessed and the html is
    >>> re-delivered to the client (with any changes). Ajax allows you to do
    >>> the round-trips to the server with only the data that you really
    >>> need. For example, with maps.google.com. It asks for new images for
    >>> parts of maps you are looking at behind the scene. In the old days,
    >>> you would repost the whole page and the experience for the user was
    >>> more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a future, but in truth...we've
    >>> done Ajax for years...we are now finally getting a framework (Atlas I
    >>> think?) to do some of the heavy lifting.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> Shawn Wildermuth
    >>> Speaker, Author and C# MVP
    >>>> I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
    >>>> here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
    >>>> but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
    >>>> obvious:
    >>>>
    >>>> I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will.
    >>>> But I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the
    >>>> server, no postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something*
    >>>> makes a trip to the server? It may be int the background, but there
    >>>> still is a trip to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure
    >>>> of the benefit. Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax
    >>>> isn't correct for every problems), but I'm not quite sure.
    >>>>
    >>>> For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code
    >>>> the proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback
    >>>> to the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can
    >>>> keep the current page and in the background have the correct city
    >>>> come up.
    >>>>
    >>>> But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of
    >>>> time to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it
    >>>> doesn't feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just
    >>>> trying to understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.
    >>>>

    >
    >
     
    Mr Newbie, Sep 23, 2005
    #6
  7. Guest

    Isn't it less secure since they can see what page you are calling in
    the background and your querystring?
     
    , Sep 23, 2005
    #7
  8. I'm talking about using javascript to control it, of course.

    and the page returned doesn't necessary contain visualable elements. A page
    full of hidden box, or just 1 hidden box with hex-encoded content will do
    the job for most case.

    I haven't tried the crazy idea to change to handler of .js to
    aspnet_isapi.dll in order to have some dynamically generated .js files for
    <script> tag, but I believe that there are some chance of success (although
    the browser may just ignore the javascript file change once the script is
    loaded)

    Seems there's all sorts of crazy implementation to do the task before Ajax.

    <>
    ???????:...
    > Isn't it less secure since they can see what page you are calling in
    > the background and your querystring?
    >
     
    Lau Lei Cheong, Sep 24, 2005
    #8
  9. Yes there is a roundtrip for every AJAX action and there tend to be many of
    them.

    The benefit is that there is no HTML, GIF, CSS, JavaScript-Includes...
    loading when using theses roundtrips so they are small, fast and asynchronous
    (not blocking).
    Calling a server using AJAX is like requesting a very specific question
    (like : give me the newest information).
    Using classic web applications with standard ASP.NET, JSP and Struts, PHP,
    .... you always ask for "everything" (like: give me the web form for the
    ticket system, including the newest information).

    From an academic perspective: It's a better separation of model view and
    controller.

    Have a look at http://mathertel.devhost1.centron.net/AjaxEngine/Default.aspx


    "" wrote:

    > I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
    > here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group, but
    > it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the obvious:
    >
    > I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
    > I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
    > postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
    > the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip to
    > the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
    > Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
    > every problems), but I'm not quite sure.
    >
    > For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
    > proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to the
    > server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep the
    > current page and in the background have the correct city come up.
    >
    > But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
    > to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
    > feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
    > understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.
    >
    >
     
    =?Utf-8?B?TWF0SGVydGVs?=, Oct 8, 2005
    #9
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