Any browser implementing THEAD?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Bram de Jong, Nov 25, 2003.

  1. Bram de Jong

    Bram de Jong Guest

    Scrolling table bodies independently from the table heading would be very
    useful to me. Does anyone know a browser implementing the THEAD element, or
    perhaps something similar?

    Thanks,
    Bram.
     
    Bram de Jong, Nov 25, 2003
    #1
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  2. Bram de Jong wrote:

    > Scrolling table bodies independently from the table heading would be very
    > useful to me. Does anyone know a browser implementing the THEAD element, or
    > perhaps something similar?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Bram.
    >
    >


    Use CSS to scroll:

    <style>
    .mytable{ overflow:scroll; }
    </style>
    <table><tr><td>
    <h2>heading</h2>
    </td></tr><tr><td><div class='mytable'>
    <!-- the table you want to scroll here -->
    </div></td></tr></table>

    You shoud also specify the height of the div. It would, of course, have
    been better to use CSS instead of the table in my example.

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Jollans, Nov 25, 2003
    #2
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  3. "Bram de Jong" <> wrote:

    > Scrolling table bodies independently from the table heading would be
    > very useful to me. Does anyone know a browser implementing the THEAD
    > element, or perhaps something similar?


    The required implementation is that browsers parse the element, nothing
    more; no specific effect on rendering is required.

    It seems that Mozilla actually tries to implement THEAD well and support the
    CSS scroll property for it (IE doesn't, for some odd reason), but my tests
    have been rather disappointing. It simply doesn't seem to get it right -
    hard to describe the ways it fails, sorry.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Nov 25, 2003
    #3
  4. Bram de Jong

    Bram de Jong Guest


    > > Scrolling table bodies independently from the table heading would be

    very
    > > useful to me. Does anyone know a browser implementing the THEAD element,

    or
    > > perhaps something similar?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Bram.
    > >

    >
    > Use CSS to scroll:
    >
    > <style>
    > .mytable{ overflow:scroll; }
    > </style>
    > <table><tr><td>
    > <h2>heading</h2>
    > </td></tr><tr><td><div class='mytable'>
    > <!-- the table you want to scroll here -->
    > </div></td></tr></table>
    >
    > You shoud also specify the height of the div. It would, of course, have
    > been better to use CSS instead of the table in my example.
    >
    > Thomas
    >


    Interesting idea. Unfortunately, I have multi-column data tables and the
    problem is to synchronize the column headings with the column values. It
    gets even more difficult when horizontal scrolling is needed.
    Bram.
     
    Bram de Jong, Nov 25, 2003
    #4
  5. "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:

    > It seems that Mozilla actually tries to implement THEAD well and support the
    > CSS scroll property for it (IE doesn't, for some odd reason), but my tests
    > have been rather disappointing.


    And Mozilla *prints* THEAD at the top of each page for long tables.

    BTW: Your lines seem a bit too long.

    --
    Top posting.
    What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
     
    Andreas Prilop, Nov 25, 2003
    #5
  6. Bram de Jong

    spaghetti Guest


    > > Scrolling table bodies independently from the table heading would be
    > > very useful to me. Does anyone know a browser implementing the THEAD
    > > element, or perhaps something similar?

    >
    > The required implementation is that browsers parse the element, nothing
    > more; no specific effect on rendering is required.
    >
    > It seems that Mozilla actually tries to implement THEAD well and support

    the
    > CSS scroll property for it (IE doesn't, for some odd reason), but my tests
    > have been rather disappointing. It simply doesn't seem to get it right -
    > hard to describe the ways it fails, sorry.


    I saw a Javascript solution to this that worked well in IE and Mozilla, and
    degraded. I thought it was a common thing (I didn't have any use to bookmark
    it) and now I can't seem to find it. It was relatively complex though, which
    might be why it wasn't popular.

    I will do some hunting. Maybe I've gotten it mixed up with something else.
     
    spaghetti, Nov 25, 2003
    #6
  7. Bram de Jong

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Sometime around Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:00:23 +0000 (UTC), Jukka K. Korpela is
    reported to have stated:

    > It seems that Mozilla actually tries to implement THEAD well and support the
    > CSS scroll property for it (IE doesn't, for some odd reason), but my tests
    > have been rather disappointing. It simply doesn't seem to get it right -
    > hard to describe the ways it fails, sorry.


    If you can't describe it, do you have an example URL?

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Nov 26, 2003
    #7
  8. Bram de Jong

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Bram de Jong wrote:
    > Scrolling table bodies independently from the table heading would be
    > very useful to me. Does anyone know a browser implementing the THEAD
    > element, or perhaps something similar?

    And:
    > I have multi-column data tables and
    > the problem is to synchronize the column headings with the column
    > values. It gets even more difficult when horizontal scrolling is
    > needed.


    Duplicate the table.
    Place one in a div with fixed height and overflow:hidden (your headings)
    The other one in a div with overflow: auto below the first one (scrollable
    content).

    Good luck,
    Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Nov 26, 2003
    #8
  9. Bram de Jong

    Bram de Jong Guest

    "> > Scrolling table bodies independently from the table heading would be
    > > very useful to me. Does anyone know a browser implementing the THEAD
    > > element, or perhaps something similar?

    >
    > The required implementation is that browsers parse the element, nothing
    > more; no specific effect on rendering is required.
    >
    > It seems that Mozilla actually tries to implement THEAD well and support

    the
    > CSS scroll property for it (IE doesn't, for some odd reason), but my tests
    > have been rather disappointing. It simply doesn't seem to get it right -
    > hard to describe the ways it fails, sorry.
    >


    Thanks. I'll have a look at Mozilla.
    Bram.
     
    Bram de Jong, Nov 26, 2003
    #9
  10. Mark Parnell <> wrote:

    >> It seems that Mozilla actually tries to implement THEAD well and
    >> support the CSS scroll property for it (IE doesn't, for some odd
    >> reason), but my tests have been rather disappointing. It simply
    >> doesn't seem to get it right - hard to describe the ways it fails,
    >> sorry.

    >
    > If you can't describe it, do you have an example URL?


    Sorry, my tests are mostly sketchy and obscure even to myself, since
    I created them when writing my CSS book and decided to say rather
    little about this - just describe the idea and say that it's at present
    mostly just a good idea. I just remember the disappointment. :-(

    But to illustrate it a bit, I created
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/styles/propidx.html
    which is appendix F (property table) of the CSS 2.1 draft, with minor
    modifications, mainly with the added style sheet

    tbody { height: 10em;
    overflow: scroll; }

    and with <tbody> markup added into the document (which oddly lacked
    it). Sounds simple, and Mozilla 1.4 sort-of supports it, but the
    columns aren't adjusted (the columns in <thead> have widths different
    from those in <tbody>), and this oddly varies - a Reload may make the
    situation _worse_.

    I vaguely remember having tried to fix things by using table-layout:
    fixed (an obvious attempt, isn't it?)ยด, with catastrophic results.

    And if I try to improve the overall appearance by adding
    table { border-collapse: collapse; }
    then the whole table virtually collapses.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Nov 28, 2003
    #10
  11. Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > But to illustrate it a bit, I created
    > http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/styles/propidx.html
    > which is appendix F (property table) of the CSS 2.1 draft, with minor
    > modifications, mainly with the added style sheet
    >
    > tbody { height: 10em;
    > overflow: scroll; }
    >
    > and with <tbody> markup added into the document (which oddly lacked
    > it). Sounds simple, and Mozilla 1.4 sort-of supports it, but the
    > columns aren't adjusted (the columns in <thead> have widths different
    > from those in <tbody>), and this oddly varies - a Reload may make the
    > situation _worse_.


    Seems to look fine in my Mozilla 1.3, the columns have the same width in
    thead and tbody: <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/temp/scrolling-tbody.gif>.

    The only thing I would change is the vertical height so there is less
    scrolling.


    Matthias
     
    Matthias Gutfeldt, Nov 28, 2003
    #11
  12. Bram de Jong

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Sometime around Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:58:10 +0100, Matthias Gutfeldt is
    reported to have stated:

    > Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    >> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/styles/propidx.html


    >> Sounds simple, and Mozilla 1.4 sort-of supports it, but the
    >> columns aren't adjusted (the columns in <thead> have widths different
    >> from those in <tbody>), and this oddly varies - a Reload may make the
    >> situation _worse_.

    >
    > Seems to look fine in my Mozilla 1.3, the columns have the same width in
    > thead and tbody: <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/temp/scrolling-tbody.gif>.
    >


    Moz 1.5 gets it almost right - a couple of the columns are slightly off -
    though they sort themselves out about halfway down the table. Refreshing
    seems to correct it every time. As does loading the page in a viewport high
    enough to not have a scrollbar.

    When I added table { border-collapse: collapse; } it didn't totally
    collapse, but it is still less than desirable. The borders don't scroll
    with the rest of the table, and overflow the bottom of the table, too.

    So 1.5 seems to be better than 1.4 (though they have gone backwards since
    1.3?), but it still leaves a lot to be desired.

    Thanks for the example, Jukka. Will watch this one in future versions with
    some interest. :)

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Dec 1, 2003
    #12
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