Applet 'showDocument' tester

Discussion in 'Java' started by Andrew Thompson, Sep 6, 2004.

  1. Given the recent spate of tools that knobble
    a browser's ability to use the showDocument
    method, I threw together a simple page to allow
    users to test their browsers.
    <http://www.physci.org/test/showdoc/>

    While this problem has become most obvious
    with new 'Pop-Up' windows, there are other
    forms of showDocument that are also unreliable.
    My Mozilla 1.3, for example, fails to act on
    *any* of the different forms of showDocument().

    [ Note, of course, that the JavaDocs mark the
    showDocument method as 'optional'..,
    while AppletContext.showDocument(URL) says..

    "This method may be ignored by applet
    contexts that are not browsers.",

    ...the form AppletContext.showDocument(URL, String)
    goes further, stating..

    "An applet viewer *or* browser is free to
    ignore showDocument."

    ...so if a browser fails to act on it, the
    browser is still not technically 'broken'. ]

    HTH

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 6, 2004
    #1
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  2. Andrew Thompson

    Sudsy Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:
    <snip>

    Test results on Netscape 7.1/Linux:
    java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: RedirectApplet (Unsupported
    major.minor version 48.0)
     
    Sudsy, Sep 6, 2004
    #2
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  3. On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:54:01 -0400, Sudsy wrote:

    > java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: RedirectApplet (Unsupported
    > major.minor version 48.0)


    ...uggh. How stupid of me. Forgot to
    both compile *and* test in 1.1.

    Just uploaded the recompiled version, tested
    in MSVM and NN 4.8 (Symantec 1.1.5 VM)

    We should be right to go.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 6, 2004
    #3
  4. Andrew Thompson

    Sudsy Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:54:01 -0400, Sudsy wrote:
    >
    >
    >>java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: RedirectApplet (Unsupported
    >>major.minor version 48.0)

    >
    > Just uploaded the recompiled version, tested
    > in MSVM and NN 4.8 (Symantec 1.1.5 VM)
    >
    > We should be right to go.


    Now all three tests are successful.
     
    Sudsy, Sep 6, 2004
    #4
  5. > Andrew Thompson wrote:
    >> On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:54:01 -0400, Sudsy wrote:

    ...
    >> We should be right to go.

    >
    > Now all three tests are successful.


    Thanks, Sudsy.

    We got any other folks willing to throw
    their 'test subject' (OK ..browser) at
    my showDocument test page?

    Are you lurking Thufir? I would especially
    like to hear the results from your Opera UA.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 6, 2004
    #5
  6. Andrew Thompson

    Chris Uppal Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:

    > We got any other folks willing to throw
    > their 'test subject' (OK ..browser) at
    > my showDocument test page?


    FWIW:

    With Mozilla Firebird 0.7, options to Block Popup Windows turned on (natch!),
    Java and JavaScript both enabled, but all the subsidiary "Advanced JavaScript
    Options" turned off (move windows, resize, raise, etc.) except the ability to
    "Change images".

    Test1: fails after a while with "This browser will not change to a new page
    when Java asks it to". The 'alternate instructions' tell me that the browser
    is configured to ignore meta refresh requests and has JavaScript disabled
    (neither of which are true).

    Test2: fails after a while with: "This browser will not show a page in a named
    frame!"

    Test3: just sits there and never does anything.

    (OK, Firebird 0.7 is an out-of-date beta, but it /is/ what I'm currently using
    for real browsing.)

    -- chris
     
    Chris Uppal, Sep 6, 2004
    #6
  7. On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:17:01 +0100, Chris Uppal wrote:

    > Test1: fails after a while with "This browser will not change to a new page
    > when Java asks it to". The 'alternate instructions' tell me that the browser
    > is configured to ignore meta refresh requests and has JavaScript disabled
    > (neither of which are true).


    Aaah... My bad, that 'alternate' link
    needs to be tweaked.

    > (OK, Firebird 0.7 is an out-of-date beta, but it /is/ what I'm currently using
    > for real browsing.) ..


    Ever the difficult one, I notice. ;-)
    But then, this page needs to be able
    to deal with all comers.

    Thanks for your results.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 6, 2004
    #7
  8. > We got any other folks willing to throw
    > their 'test subject' (OK ..browser) at
    > my showDocument test page?
    >
    > Are you lurking Thufir? I would especially
    > like to hear the results from your Opera UA.


    All tests are succesful on my Opera 7.23 on WinXP.
    HTH,
    Michiel
     
    Michiel Konstapel, Sep 6, 2004
    #8
  9. On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:18:35 +0200, Michiel Konstapel wrote:

    >> Are you lurking Thufir? I would especially
    >> like to hear the results from your Opera UA.

    >
    > All tests are succesful on my Opera 7.23 on WinXP.


    Thanks for the feedback Michiel.

    The specific reference to Opera was in
    relation to a pop-up blocker that the latest
    (Linux at least?) Opera has built-in(??).

    Though looking at the Opera site, I could
    find no mention of a pop-up blocker being
    provided with either the Win or Linux
    installs..

    Maybe Thufir got his as a third party plug-in?

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 6, 2004
    #9
  10. Andrew Thompson

    Sudsy Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:
    <snip>
    > The specific reference to Opera was in
    > relation to a pop-up blocker that the latest
    > (Linux at least?) Opera has built-in(??).


    In the interest of completeness, the Netscape 7.1/Linux version
    I'm running has a very effective pop-up blocker. The complete
    specification is as follows:
    "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120
    Netscape/7.01"

    It doesn't prevent the JavaScript pop-up from Hotmail which asks
    (ad nauseum) "Are you sure you want to permanently delete all
    messages in this folder?", which is a good thing.
    OTOH, it effectively blocks the pop-ups from a local newspaper
    which I read on-line.
    Overall I'm both impressed and satisfied. It's a winning effort
    in my book!
    YMMV
     
    Sudsy, Sep 6, 2004
    #10
  11. On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:26:04 -0400, Sudsy wrote:

    > ...Netscape 7.1/Linux version
    > I'm running has a very effective pop-up blocker.

    ....
    > It doesn't prevent the JavaScript pop-up from Hotmail which asks
    > (ad nauseum) "Are you sure you want to permanently delete all
    > messages in this folder?", which is a good thing.
    > OTOH, it effectively blocks the pop-ups from a local newspaper
    > which I read on-line.


    OK. It is interesting that the Netscape
    pop-up blocker does *not* suppress the
    'open in blank window' showDocument call,
    I am surprised...

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 6, 2004
    #11
  12. Andrew Thompson <> writes:

    > The specific reference to Opera was in
    > relation to a pop-up blocker that the latest
    > (Linux at least?) Opera has built-in(??).


    Here, Opera 7.53 for Linux, using the built-in pop-up blocker, all
    tests are successful.

    --
    Jaakko Kangasharju, Helsinki Institute for Information Technology
    Give me a functional program with a good manual
    Shove your user-friendly manualless program where the sun doesn't shine
     
    Jaakko Kangasharju, Sep 7, 2004
    #12
  13. Andrew Thompson, Sep 7, 2004
    #13
  14. Andrew Thompson wrote:

    > We got any other folks willing to throw
    > their 'test subject' (OK ..browser) at
    > my showDocument test page?


    Mozilla 1.6 with popup blocker on / Win2K / JRE 1.4.2: all tests are
    successful.


    John Bollinger
     
    John C. Bollinger, Sep 7, 2004
    #14
  15. On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 08:46:53 -0500, John C. Bollinger wrote:

    > Andrew Thompson wrote:
    >
    >> We got any other folks willing to throw
    >> their 'test subject' (OK ..browser) at
    >> my showDocument test page?

    >
    > Mozilla 1.6 with popup blocker on / Win2K / JRE 1.4.2: all tests are
    > successful.


    Thanks John.. I must admit I am surprised
    (and a little cautious of) all the positive
    results for browser's with pop-up blockers.

    I keep looking around, expecting the makers of
    the pop-up blocking software to go "hey, ..wait
    a minute now, we've missed one type."

    Maybe it is that Java developers are 'all too
    innocent' to realize the potential to abuse
    these things (at least for a month or two
    before the pop-up blockers makers get their
    act together, or UA manufacturers are forced
    to add a 'Block Java Pop-Ups', or 'Ignore
    Java Page Change Requests' ..as Mozilla 1.3
    seems to.)

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 7, 2004
    #15
  16. Andrew Thompson

    Grant Wagner Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:

    > On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 08:46:53 -0500, John C. Bollinger wrote:
    >
    > > Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > >
    > >> We got any other folks willing to throw
    > >> their 'test subject' (OK ..browser) at
    > >> my showDocument test page?

    > >
    > > Mozilla 1.6 with popup blocker on / Win2K / JRE 1.4.2: all tests are
    > > successful.

    >
    > Thanks John.. I must admit I am surprised
    > (and a little cautious of) all the positive
    > results for browser's with pop-up blockers.


    I would suggest that Gecko-based browsers are popup blocking based on
    client-side script only. A new window opened by the showDocument() method
    in a Java Applet (or any other way) is simply ignored, rather than noticed
    and allowed to continue.

    The Google toolbar and the IE popup blocker in Windows XP SP2 on the other
    hand, notice the unrequested[1] new window opening and block it. They have
    no way of knowing that a request to load <A HREF='applet.jsp?part=3'
    TARGET='content'>Test 3</A> prompted the opening of a new window, and, in
    my opinion, correctly block it.

    If the request to open the new window is as a direct user action _inside_
    the Applet, popup blockers _should_ allow it, but almost certainly (in the
    case of Google and the XP SP2 one) _will not_. Again, the popup blockers
    have no magical knowledge of what goes on inside the Applet, all they see
    is a new unrequested[1] window being opened.

    [1] - unrequested as defined by the popup blocker authors. Apparently
    Google and Microsoft feel any new window opening that was not a direct
    result of "Open in New Window", a TARGET attribute or a window.open()
    initiated somewhere near a user-fired event is unrequested.

    > I keep looking around, expecting the makers of
    > the pop-up blocking software to go "hey, ..wait
    > a minute now, we've missed one type."


    If there is enough abuse of this "feature", I'm sure you will see the
    popup blocker in Gecko-based browsers begin to mimic those of the Google
    toolbar and IE. They will watch for new "unrequested" windows opening and
    take steps to stop them.

    > Maybe it is that Java developers are 'all too
    > innocent' to realize the potential to abuse
    > these things (at least for a month or two
    > before the pop-up blockers makers get their
    > act together, or UA manufacturers are forced
    > to add a 'Block Java Pop-Ups', or 'Ignore
    > Java Page Change Requests' ..as Mozilla 1.3
    > seems to.)


    Personally I figure it's that most of the scum that depend on such tactics
    are not skillful enough to do the work themselves, and are too cheap to
    hire someone who can do it for them. "Popup scripts" of various kinds are
    freely available on the Web, no special talent is required to copy/paste
    someone else's annoying popup code into your own page, but doing it using
    a Java Applet introduces a level of complexity most site authors are
    simply not capable of achieving.

    Ultimately, if sites begin to use Java Applets to achieve what they can no
    longer achieve using client-side script alone, they will. And in the
    constant back-and-forth battle being waged, popup blocker authors will
    counter. In the end the only losers are developers, who can no longer rely
    on the ability to open a new window on the browser of a person visiting
    their site, and the users themselves, who no longer have as rich a GUI
    experience as they could have had using multiple windows _correctly_.

    --
    Grant Wagner <>
     
    Grant Wagner, Sep 8, 2004
    #16
  17. Andrew Thompson

    Mickey Segal Guest

    "Grant Wagner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The Google toolbar and the IE popup blocker in Windows XP SP2 on the
    > other hand, notice the unrequested[1] new window opening and block it.


    I'm still puzzled by some of the details of blocking of showDocument:

    The Microsoft blocker does not block showDocument from an applet in a Web
    page (http://www.segal.org/java/pop_window3/) but does block showDocument
    from an applet Frame (http://www.segal.org/java/pop_window4/).

    The Google blocker puts up a yellow explosion icon when blocking
    showDocument from an applet in a Web page
    (http://www.segal.org/java/pop_window/) but it fails to put up the yellow
    explosion icon when blocking showDocument from an applet Frame
    (http://www.segal.org/java/pop_window2/).

    Things get even stranger when running an applet from your local machine.
    There are circumstances in which showDocument is blocked even when the
    pop-up blocker is OFF; this seems to happen only with a DIGITALLY SIGNED
    applet, a problem that is fixed in part by using the "Mark of the Web"
    approach detailed at http://www.phdcc.com/xpsp2.htm. It seems strange that
    the most restrictions would be targeted at signed code running on the local
    machine, yet be fixable in a simple way.
     
    Mickey Segal, Sep 8, 2004
    #17
  18. Thanks to both you and Mickey for further
    arcane information.

    I read your response some hours ago Grant,
    and drafted a detailed response to the many
    interesting points you made, the trouble is..
    I was tripping over some details so I thought
    best to 'file' it in drafts, but actually
    deleted it! (rolls eyes)

    In any case, I think it best I give more thought
    to what you and Mickey have added to this thread,
    before I return with more specific comments, so ..

    "I'll get back to this soon"

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 9, 2004
    #18
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