Are <b> and <i> tags obsolete ?

[Bart]

Hi there,

Although <b> and <i> tags are (according to the W3C HTML 4.01
standard) not deprecated, their use is discouraged.
I used to use <b> and <i> quit often.

What in your opinion is the preferred way to go:
- use <em> and <strong> (with or without a stylesheet) for markup or
- use CSS (font-weight: bold; and font-style: italic) ?

Any input is appreciated.

Bart

 

[Barbara de Zoete]

Although <b> and <i> tags are (according to the W3C HTML 4.01
standard) not deprecated, their use is discouraged.
I used to use <b> and <i> quit often.

What in your opinion is the preferred way to go:
- use <em> and <strong> (with or without a stylesheet) for markup or
- use CSS (font-weight: bold; and font-style: italic) ?

I would stick to <em> for emphasis and <strong> because they do not only render
text in graphical browsers in a certain way, but could emphasise text in other
than graphical browsers as well, where as CSS will not do anything for a
non-graphical browser.

Any input is appreciated.

Are you sure ? ;-)

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[CarolW.]

Hi there,

Although <b> and <i> tags are (according to the W3C HTML 4.01
standard) not deprecated, their use is discouraged.
I used to use <b> and <i> quit often.

Where was this information shared at on W3C? I looked around and
didn't see that recommendation about using <b> or <i> being
discouraged as sometimes I use <b> or <i> just for visual versus
"vocal" emphasis thoughts that <em> and <strong> share.

Carol

 

[CarolW.]

Where was this information shared at on W3C? I looked around and
didn't see that recommendation about using <b> or <i> being
discouraged as sometimes I use <b> or <i> just for visual versus
"vocal" emphasis thoughts that <em> and <strong> share.

Nevermind, I answered my own question.

I checked the elements listing page, where I didn't see <b> or <i>
being tagged as obsolete or deprecated ... then I read through the
accessibility page
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-HTML-TECHS/#em where it is said that <b>
and <i> were deprecated.

Oh well ...

Carol

 

[Toby Inkster]

What in your opinion is the preferred way to go:
- use <em> and <strong> (with or without a stylesheet) for markup or
- use CSS (font-weight: bold; and font-style: italic) ?

Use <em> and <strong> if you need to make important text stand out.

Use font-weight:bold or <b> and font-style:italic or <i> if you want to
make text bold or italic for other reasons.

But when do you choose <b>/<i> and when the CSS equivalents?

Say you want to make all links bold, then use:

a { font-weight: bold; }

That's much better than:

<a href="..."><b>...</b></a>

But:

This word is <b>bold</b>

is better than:

This word is <span class="mybold">bold</span>

(particularly as the latter example will be false in some browsers!)

 

[Spartanicus]

I checked the elements listing page, where I didn't see <b> or <i>
being tagged as obsolete or deprecated ... then I read through the
accessibility page
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-HTML-TECHS/#em where it is said that <b>
and <i> were deprecated.

That information is incorrect, neither <b> or <i> are deprecated up to
and including xhtml 1.1.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

That information is incorrect, neither <b> or <i> are deprecated up to
and including xhtml 1.1.

The cited document "HTML Techniques for WCAG 2.0" is just an incomplete
sketch, which itself says: "It is inappropriate to cite this document as
other than work in progress."

On the other hand, the corresponding approved document for WCAG 1.0 says:
"The proper HTML elements should be used to mark up emphasis: EM and
STRONG. The B and I elements should not be used; they are used to create a
visual presentation effect."
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#text-emphasis

So although the B and I elements have not been deprecated, the document
seems to recommend that they be not be used, which might be seen as a
milder statement. But reading closely, and reading the heading "Emphasis",
we might come to the conclusion that the recommendation is that B and I be
not used _for emphasis_. This leaves it open whether they could be used for
other things.

I think I'll stop here, since those elements have been discussed very much
on different fora, including this group, and it's not really a big issue.

 

[Andy Dingley]

Although <b> and <i> tags are (according to the W3C HTML 4.01
standard) not deprecated, their use is discouraged.

<b> and <i> are perfectly legitimate. The history of typography is
such that effects like this have become so entrenched that they're now
effectively semantically meaningful in their own right.

If you mean "emphasized", then use <em> and CSS. If your first
thought though was "bold" (as a specific effect) then by all means use
<b>

 

[Neal]

Hi there,

Although <b> and <i> tags are (according to the W3C HTML 4.01
standard) not deprecated, their use is discouraged.
I used to use <b> and <i> quit often.

What in your opinion is the preferred way to go:
- use <em> and <strong> (with or without a stylesheet) for markup or
- use CSS (font-weight: bold; and font-style: italic) ?

Any input is appreciated.

Here's my guideline for <i> - you can figure out the <b> one easily
enough.

1) If you are italicising for decoration only, and it has no bearing
on the meaning of what you write (i.e. it would not make the slightest
difference if it wasn't) use CSS.

2) If you are italicizing for a purpose that is covered by existing
HTML markup (like emphasizing or marking a variable) use the proper
semantic markup (<em>, <var>).

3) If you are italicizing for a purpose that is required by standard
style rules but for which there is not HTML markup (like a ship's
name, or the title of a magazine, book or opera) use <i>.

 

[Neal]

So although the B and I elements have not been deprecated, the
document
seems to recommend that they be not be used, which might be seen as a
milder statement. But reading closely, and reading the heading
"Emphasis",
we might come to the conclusion that the recommendation is that B
and I be
not used _for emphasis_. This leaves it open whether they could be
used for
other things.

That is exactly my conclusion.

 

[Bart]

Op Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:13:31 GMT schreef (e-mail address removed)
(CarolW.):

Where was this information shared at on W3C? I looked around and
didn't see that recommendation about using <b> or <i> being
discouraged as sometimes I use <b> or <i> just for visual versus
"vocal" emphasis thoughts that <em> and <strong> share.

Carol

In the W3C HTML 4.01 specification on www.w3c.org//TR/html401, section
15.2 on fonts:

"Although they are not all deprecated, their use is discoraged in
favor of style sheets"
[unquote]

This comment in the document referres to <TT>, <I>, <B>, <BIG>,
<SMALL>, <STRIKE>, <S> and <U> elements, of wich <STRIKE> and <U> are
deprecated.

Bart

 

[Bart]

Op Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:54:51 +0100 schreef "Barbara de Zoete"

I would stick to <em> for emphasis and <strong> because they do not only render
text in graphical browsers in a certain way, but could emphasise text in other
than graphical browsers as well, where as CSS will not do anything for a
non-graphical browser.
You can always change the looks of <em> and <strong> with CSS if you wish to do
so.

I think I'll go that way then.
Read part of your website on webdesign.
Its content is very clear and informative and I like the design.
Might adopt parts of your philosophy.

I write my HTML in my own self-written HTML editor, wich not yet has

Are you sure ? ;-)

As long as it's on topic (and no flame).

Bart

 

[Bart]

On the other hand, the corresponding approved document for WCAG 1.0 says:
"The proper HTML elements should be used to mark up emphasis: EM and
STRONG. The B and I elements should not be used; they are used to create a
visual presentation effect."
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#text-emphasis

So although the B and I elements have not been deprecated, the document
seems to recommend that they be not be used, which might be seen as a
milder statement. But reading closely, and reading the heading "Emphasis",
we might come to the conclusion that the recommendation is that B and I be
not used _for emphasis_. This leaves it open whether they could be used for
other things.

I think I'll follw that viwe in the future then.

I think I'll stop here, since those elements have been discussed very much
on different fora, including this group, and it's not really a big issue.

Maybe not a big issue, but I just was interested in your opinions.

Thanks.

Bart

 

[Starshine Moonbeam]

Hi there,

Although <b> and <i> tags are (according to the W3C HTML 4.01
standard) not deprecated, their use is discouraged.
I used to use <b> and <i> quit often.

What in your opinion is the preferred way to go:
- use <em> and <strong> (with or without a stylesheet) for markup or
- use CSS (font-weight: bold; and font-style: italic) ?

Any input is appreciated.

I've used them for little one time things just so I don't have to type
out style="{...}" when I can just use a <b> but if it's more than just a
quick little thing, I'd code it out.