Will <strong> tags be deprecated?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Fabian, Oct 6, 2003.

  1. Fabian

    Fabian Guest

    Hello,

    I'm new here so if there's a FAQ or something or if I'm doing something
    wrong, correct me and accept my apologies :)

    So, I'm in a heavy discussion with some people at my school about <strong>
    and <em> tags. Some of them say these tags will be deprecated. I know when
    XML comes around all tags will be deprecated, but I mean in a short notice
    of time?

    And is it better to use <strong>-tags or special css tags to define just
    something to be bold. In my opinion, I'd say I would stick to the <strong>
    tags, they are meant to put things bold. It's obvious.


    Can anyone give me an appropriate answer about this?

    So will the <strong> and <em> (or <i>/<b>) tags be deprecated? And what's
    better <strong> or <span style="font-weight: bold;"> when it only comes to
    put things bold.


    Thanks, Fabian Deceuninck
    http://givelove.be/
    Fabian, Oct 6, 2003
    #1
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  2. In article <TUhgb.61750$-ops.be>,
    says...
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm new here so if there's a FAQ or something or if I'm doing something
    > wrong, correct me and accept my apologies :)
    >
    > So, I'm in a heavy discussion with some people at my school about <strong>
    > and <em> tags. Some of them say these tags will be deprecated. I know when
    > XML comes around all tags will be deprecated


    Eh? You'll still need to transform the XML so that it can be rendered
    by the browser. XML is simply a data format, after all.


    > And is it better to use <strong>-tags or special css tags to define just
    > something to be bold. In my opinion, I'd say I would stick to the <strong>
    > tags, they are meant to put things bold. It's obvious.
    >
    >
    > Can anyone give me an appropriate answer about this?
    >
    > So will the <strong> and <em> (or <i>/<b>) tags be deprecated? And what's
    > better <strong> or <span style="font-weight: bold;"> when it only comes to
    > put things bold.


    Depends on whether you want to change the meaning of the sentence.

    --
    Hywel I do not eat quiche
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
    Hywel Jenkins, Oct 6, 2003
    #2
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  3. Fabian

    Fabian Guest

    Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    >
    > Eh? You'll still need to transform the XML so that it can be rendered
    > by the browser. XML is simply a data format, after all.
    >


    Well, I meant that, I just worded it wrong. Or however you say it. I'm Dutch
    and I lack good knowledge of technical English. Sorry :)


    >> So will the <strong> and <em> (or <i>/<b>) tags be deprecated? And
    >> what's better <strong> or <span style="font-weight: bold;"> when it
    >> only comes to put things bold.

    >
    > Depends on whether you want to change the meaning of the sentence.


    Uhm. What do you mean by that? The meaning of the sentence like in change
    the properties of <strong> ? So it can do more things than bold?

    If it's that, no. I just want like one word bold. What's better than? Or a
    paragraph.


    --
    Fabian
    Fabian, Oct 6, 2003
    #3
  4. Fabian

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Fabian" <> wrote:

    >So, I'm in a heavy discussion with some people at my school about <strong>
    >and <em> tags. Some of them say these tags will be deprecated.


    <strong> and <em> are the XHTML 2.0 draft so will be around for a
    while. There's no reason to deprecate them as they server a useful
    function - of marking emphasis.

    > I know when
    >XML comes around all tags will be deprecated, but I mean in a short notice
    >of time?


    What does XML have to do with it?
    XML is not a replacement for HTML and XML is already here so I think
    you must be confused. XML certainly isn't going to deprecate all tags,
    whatever that would mean.

    >And is it better to use <strong>-tags or special css tags to define just
    >something to be bold. In my opinion, I'd say I would stick to the <strong>
    >tags, they are meant to put things bold. It's obvious.


    No they are not maent to put things in bold. They are meant to
    strongly emphasise things. That may or may not be rendered as bold. If
    you just want to make something bold, but do not want to strongly
    emphasise it then yous <b> or CSS.

    >So will the <strong> and <em> (or <i>/<b>) tags be deprecated?


    No. <strong> and <em> are in XHTML 2.0.
    <i> and <b> are not deprecated - they are just fine in XHTML 1.1 but
    don't exist at all in XHTML 2.0, they've skipped right over the
    deprecation phase.

    >And what's
    >better <strong> or <span style="font-weight: bold;"> when it only comes to
    >put things bold.


    If it is being strongly emphasised then <strong> is correctt,
    regardless of whether it is styled as being bold or not.
    Inline styles are generally a bad idea, but font-weight: bold; is
    correct for text that is tobe bold, applied to whatever the most
    appropriate (X)HTML element is.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Oct 6, 2003
    #4
  5. Fabian

    Fabian Guest

    Thanks for your good response.

    About the XML you're right, I don't know enough about it. Sorry. I wás
    confused. We haven't learned a lot about it yet. :) Forgive me :p

    So <strong> and <em> will live on, while <i> and <b> will be deprecated in
    the next version?

    Thanks!

    Fabian
    Fabian, Oct 6, 2003
    #5
  6. In article <S6igb.61771$-ops.be>,
    says...
    > Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    > >
    > > Eh? You'll still need to transform the XML so that it can be rendered
    > > by the browser. XML is simply a data format, after all.
    > >

    >
    > Well, I meant that, I just worded it wrong. Or however you say it. I'm Dutch
    > and I lack good knowledge of technical English. Sorry :)
    >
    >
    > >> So will the <strong> and <em> (or <i>/<b>) tags be deprecated? And
    > >> what's better <strong> or <span style="font-weight: bold;"> when it
    > >> only comes to put things bold.

    > >
    > > Depends on whether you want to change the meaning of the sentence.

    >
    > Uhm. What do you mean by that? The meaning of the sentence like in change
    > the properties of <strong> ? So it can do more things than bold?


    Appearance-wise, probably not. However, and audio browser (one that
    reads the page to those with poor eysight) may apply particular emphasis
    to <strong>this text</strong> whereas the style of <span style="font-
    weight:Bold;">this text</span> may mean nothing to the browser.

    >
    > If it's that, no. I just want like one word bold. What's better than? Or a
    > paragraph.


    It depends why you want the text emboldened. As I've just come back
    from the gym and can hardly type, there's no chance that I can come up
    with examples of either case.

    --
    Hywel I do not eat quiche
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
    Hywel Jenkins, Oct 6, 2003
    #6
  7. Fabian wrote:

    > So <strong> and <em> will live on, while <i> and <b> will be deprecated in
    > the next version?


    Wrong. <b> and <i> will not be deprecated in the next version of XHTML,
    they will not be in the next version of XHTML *at* *all*!

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?id=132
    Toby A Inkster, Oct 6, 2003
    #7
  8. Fabian

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:16:30 GMT, "Fabian" <>
    wrote:

    >So <strong> and <em> will live on, while <i> and <b> will be deprecated in
    >the next version?


    I doubt if any will be deprecated. <i> and <b> have such a long
    typographic tradition that they're arguably as much a piece of content
    as a piece of presentation.

    --
    Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
    Andy Dingley, Oct 6, 2003
    #8
  9. Fabian

    Micah Cowan Guest

    "Fabian" <> writes:

    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm new here so if there's a FAQ or something or if I'm doing something
    > wrong, correct me and accept my apologies :)
    >
    > So, I'm in a heavy discussion with some people at my school about <strong>
    > and <em> tags. Some of them say these tags will be deprecated. I know when
    > XML comes around all tags will be deprecated, but I mean in a short notice
    > of time?


    XML has been around for some time. It's goals do not include
    replacing HTML; they have more to do with replacing SGML. But to
    talk about when XML "comes around" is kind of silly.

    If you are referring to XHTML, I wouldn't bother with
    forward-compatibility (to versions above 1.0/parts-of-1.1, that
    is), it's a complete (and much needed) redesign. Unfortunately, I
    have this feeling that XHTML 2.0 will never really be supported
    by main-stream stuff... hope I'm wrong.

    I'm pairing the above quote with a related question from later in
    your message:

    > So will the <strong> and <em> (or <i>/<b>) tags be deprecated? And what's
    > better <strong> or <span style="font-weight: bold;"> when it only comes to
    > put things bold.


    <i> and <b>, IMO, should have been deprecated some time
    ago. I have never heard of <strong> and <em> being deprecated,
    and find that highly unlikely, considering that, of the four you
    mentioned, they are the only ones that indicate the intended
    *meaning* rather than formatting. Note that <strike> and <u> are
    already deprecated, and will not be found in the strict DTD.

    As to which is better, it depends on context. If you want
    something bold, there must be a *reason*. If the reason is to
    strengthen or emphasize a phrase or word, <strong> and <em> are
    entirely appropriate. If the intention is to typographically
    differentiate a word or phrase (say, a programming language
    keyword), you should probably use span with a class (inline style
    attribute would be a poor idea). Say, <span class="prog-lang-keywd">.

    > And is it better to use <strong>-tags or special css tags to define just
    > something to be bold. In my opinion, I'd say I would stick to the <strong>
    > tags, they are meant to put things bold. It's obvious.


    Strong is *not* meant to put things in bold--you should not rely
    on that. The standard specifically says, "The presentation of
    phrase elements [such as STRONG and EM] depends on the user
    agent." It goes on to say how they have typically been formatted;
    but they exist *explicitly* so you don't have to have knowledge
    of how they are formatted. If you want them formatted a specific
    way, you should use CSS to indicate so.

    -Micah
    Micah Cowan, Oct 6, 2003
    #9
  10. Fabian

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Fabian" <> wrote:

    >So <strong> and <em> will live on, while <i> and <b> will be deprecated in
    >the next version?


    No, as I said <i> and <b> are not in the XHTML 2.0 draft at all.
    They will not deprecated (like <font> is in HTML 4) they will simply
    not be there at all.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Oct 6, 2003
    #10
  11. Micah Cowan <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > "Fabian" <> writes:
    > If the intention is to typographically
    > differentiate a word or phrase (say, a programming language
    > keyword), you should probably use span with a class (inline style
    > attribute would be a poor idea). Say, <span class="prog-lang-keywd">.


    What's wrong with <code>?
    Leif K-Brooks, Oct 7, 2003
    #11
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