Assistance with CSS please

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Lesley Blakey, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. Hi

    I am putting together a web site that will prodominantley use CSS rather
    than tables. Most of the page design works well and everything is in place.

    The link to the test pages is http://www.les99.co.uk/nslcweb/index.php

    The central main content block has a defined height and when the content of
    the block exceeds the defined height the content flows as expected. The two
    further boxes under this main content box, i.e. go to top and bottom menu
    bar, are in absolute positions which is fine when the main content box does
    not overflow. I reliase that the go to top and bottom menu bars should be
    set as relative so that when the text exceeds the defined height in the main
    central box the go to top and bottom menu bars will position themsleves
    accordingly. However this does not seem to work.

    You can see from the credits page that the main content box has overflowed
    and at present the other two boxes are set to absolute, however when I
    change them to relative they do not go into the correct position either.

    I am using four different style sheets for the different text sizes and one
    template for the whole of the site. I realise a work around would be not to
    use a template and to use a different style sheet for every page but then
    this would be cumbersome and defeat the purpose.

    I am fairly new to web design and would appreciate any assistance available.

    Many thanks

    Lesley
     
    Lesley Blakey, Aug 3, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Lesley Blakey wrote:

    > I am using four different style sheets for the different text sizes


    Why bother? Stop using font sizing at all, and set your main body font
    to 100%, with minor changes for <hx> and legalese elements. Let your
    users decide what is best for themselves.

    body { font-size: 100%; }
    h1 { font-size: 150%; }
    h2 { font-size: 135%; }
    h3 { font-size: 125%; }
    ..legalese { font-size: 85%; }

    Sure eliminates a lot of the complexity, and may even fix the problem
    you posted about.

    http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Aug 3, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lesley Blakey

    Andy Dingley Guest

    Lesley Blakey wrote:

    > I am putting together a web site that will prodominantley use CSS rather
    > than tables.


    So use CSS then, rather than the number of superfluous tables you're
    still using.

    Using DreamWeaver has probably been the culprit here. It's not a good
    choice for good quality web design.


    > Most of the page design works well and everything is in place.


    I certainly wouldn't say "works well". IMHO it's ugly, works badly, and
    probably took more effort to achieve than doing it right. Find a good
    CSS-based example site and borrow that (try glish.com, bluerobot,
    alistapart and many others)


    > The central main content block has a defined height and when the

    content of
    > the block exceeds the defined height the content flows as expected.


    There's no content in your test page, so it's impossible to judge this.
    Put some lorem ipsum in there, then see how it behaves.

    > I am using four different style sheets for the different text sizes


    That's a terrible idea, stop it right now.

    Use one style sheet, use em-based font sizing and let users manage
    their own default text sixes. "Text only" stylesheets are a bogosity
    too.

    Also these font links do something funny to my Back button, which is an
    annoyance.

    You're also using (and mis-using) XHTML, so go back to HTML 4.01 Strict
    (or else find a good reason to use XHTML, and learn to do it right).
     
    Andy Dingley, Aug 4, 2006
    #3
  4. Many thanks for your advice. I still need to use the switcher for text size
    rather than using IE View option, but I will try changing the text sizes to
    % rather than pixels and see what happens !

    The link was great, Have found lots of useful things by going to Mr Poley's
    main page. A lot of reading ahead for me !

    Thanks again
    Lesley


    "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote in message
    news:7mqAg.541450$...
    > Lesley Blakey wrote:
    >
    >> I am using four different style sheets for the different text sizes

    >
    > Why bother? Stop using font sizing at all, and set your main body font
    > to 100%, with minor changes for <hx> and legalese elements. Let your
    > users decide what is best for themselves.
    >
    > body { font-size: 100%; }
    > h1 { font-size: 150%; }
    > h2 { font-size: 135%; }
    > h3 { font-size: 125%; }
    > .legalese { font-size: 85%; }
    >
    > Sure eliminates a lot of the complexity, and may even fix the problem
    > you posted about.
    >
    > http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html
    >
    > --
    > -bts
    > -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Lesley Blakey, Aug 4, 2006
    #4
  5. Hi Andy

    Thanks for your advice, really appreciate the time everyone has taken to
    have a look at the site and give their comments. As you can no doubt I'm
    fairly new to web design. However trying to do the best I can within my
    capabilities using Dreamweaver as this is all I know and even then I only
    know the basics !

    I wish I could use CSS only rather than the mix of tables and CSS but my
    lack of knowledge does not allow me to. I wish I knew how, but hopefully I
    will learn and in the future will be able to recify this.

    Thanks for the links to the CSS websites. I will have a good browse around
    not that I'll probably make much sense of it.

    Don;t really know the difference between Xhtml and html 4.01, so not sure
    how I would change what I already have done. Just using DW.

    Regardless of all my other issues the one thing I really want to know how to
    do is to put my "got to top" and my "bottom menu bar" in a footer as such,
    so no matter how long the the content of the "maincontent box" is, the "go
    to top" and "bottom menu bar" follow on say 10 px after. Hope that makes
    sense. Have put extended text in the main content box to show you what I
    mean.

    Lesley


    "Andy Dingley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Lesley Blakey wrote:
    >
    >> I am putting together a web site that will prodominantley use CSS rather
    >> than tables.

    >
    > So use CSS then, rather than the number of superfluous tables you're
    > still using.
    >
    > Using DreamWeaver has probably been the culprit here. It's not a good
    > choice for good quality web design.
    >
    >
    >> Most of the page design works well and everything is in place.

    >
    > I certainly wouldn't say "works well". IMHO it's ugly, works badly, and
    > probably took more effort to achieve than doing it right. Find a good
    > CSS-based example site and borrow that (try glish.com, bluerobot,
    > alistapart and many others)
    >
    >
    > > The central main content block has a defined height and when the

    > content of
    >> the block exceeds the defined height the content flows as expected.

    >
    > There's no content in your test page, so it's impossible to judge this.
    > Put some lorem ipsum in there, then see how it behaves.
    >
    >> I am using four different style sheets for the different text sizes

    >
    > That's a terrible idea, stop it right now.
    >
    > Use one style sheet, use em-based font sizing and let users manage
    > their own default text sixes. "Text only" stylesheets are a bogosity
    > too.
    >
    > Also these font links do something funny to my Back button, which is an
    > annoyance.
    >
    > You're also using (and mis-using) XHTML, so go back to HTML 4.01 Strict
    > (or else find a good reason to use XHTML, and learn to do it right).
    >
     
    Lesley Blakey, Aug 4, 2006
    #5
  6. Lesley Blakey wrote:

    > Many thanks for your advice. I still need to use the switcher for
    > text size rather than using IE View option,


    But why? If you set your page to use 100% for base content font size,
    the visitors will see it in their preferred size. Why complicate matters
    so much?

    If a visitor is inexperienced enough to know how to change it, well,
    there's no hope for them. <g> You could - if you must - put a blurb on
    the page directing them to their menus where they may do it themselves.

    Note too that different browsers use different methods to change fonts.
    Firefox, for example, I just press Control-Plus once or twice when I
    encounter a microfont site. In Opera, I click that little percentage
    dropdown. However, if you use 100% you can dispense with the whole deal.

    > but I will try changing the text sizes to % rather than pixels and see
    > what happens !


    Once you understand how it works, I think you will see that your
    'sizing' gadgets aren't necessary.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Aug 4, 2006
    #6
  7. On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    > But why? If you set your page to use 100% for base content font size,
    > the visitors will see it in their preferred size. Why complicate matters
    > so much?


    Quite. I know one soi-disant accessibility site which offers text in
    three sizes - what I would call "microscopic", "too small", and
    "almost big enough", as seen on my display (desktop or lap). On
    initial entry to the site, the default text size is "microscopic".

    How on Earth is a visitor who needs text much larger than what is
    needed by mainstream users, ever going to find the microscopic
    instructions for doing so? Easy: one way is by overriding the
    author's font sizing in favour of the reader's choice. The menu with
    the three (why only three? Even MesSIE offers five!) then shows all
    three sizes the same, does nothing, and therefore becomes a pointless
    nuisance, trying, on every page, to lure the reader away from the tool
    which really works. (They failed HTML validation, CSS too, but you'd
    probably expect that).
     
    Alan J. Flavell, Aug 4, 2006
    #7
  8. Beauregard T. Shagnasty replied to hisself:

    > If a visitor is inexperienced enough to know how to change it


    If a visitor is inexperienced enough to NOT know how to change it

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Aug 4, 2006
    #8
  9. Lesley Blakey

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Alan J. Flavell" <> wrote:

    > On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >
    > > But why? If you set your page to use 100% for base content font size,
    > > the visitors will see it in their preferred size. Why complicate matters
    > > so much?

    >
    > Quite.


    Not quite. Because, though I am not saying it is not a good idea
    to set base to 100%, it is a complicated matter. For a start,
    visitors do not see fonts set to 100% in their preferred size
    because the notion of a visitors "preferred size" is not a simple
    matter. I have banged on before about this. But I don't blame
    anyone for not noticing. However, there is a small price to pay,
    you miss a pearl of my wisdom. It is a pity because I have not
    too many of these in my bag.

    Naturally I would prefer you not to agree with people on alt.html
    before checking my writings on the matter. But what can I do?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 5, 2006
    #9
  10. Lesley Blakey

    Andy Mabbett Guest

    In message <>,
    Alan J. Flavell <> writes

    >I know one soi-disant accessibility site which offers text in three
    >sizes - what I would call "microscopic", "too small", and "almost big
    >enough"

    [...]
    >They failed HTML validation, CSS too, but you'd probably expect that


    Name and shame!

    --
    Andy Mabbett
    Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: <http://www.no2id.net/>

    Free Our Data: <http://www.freeourdata.org.uk>
     
    Andy Mabbett, Aug 5, 2006
    #10
  11. Lesley Blakey

    Andy Mabbett Guest

    In message
    <>, dorayme
    <> writes

    >Naturally I would prefer you not to agree with people on alt.html
    >before checking my writings on the matter. But what can I do?


    Include their URL in your posts. HTH, HAND.

    --
    Andy Mabbett
    Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: <http://www.no2id.net/>

    Free Our Data: <http://www.freeourdata.org.uk>
     
    Andy Mabbett, Aug 5, 2006
    #11
  12. Lesley Blakey

    dorayme Guest

    In article <ajAcRoSwOI1EFwD$@pigsonthewing.org.uk>,
    Andy Mabbett <> wrote:

    > In message
    > <>, dorayme
    > <> writes
    >
    > >Naturally I would prefer you not to agree with people on alt.html
    > >before checking my writings on the matter. But what can I do?

    >
    > Include their URL in your posts. HTH, HAND.


    Ah, yes, but I am not such a big fan of my own writings that I
    remember where they all are. But it is outrageous that you lot
    should not know of them. (btw, what do the last words in capitals
    mean?)

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 5, 2006
    #12
  13. Lesley Blakey

    Andy Mabbett Guest

    In message
    <>, dorayme
    <> writes

    >>HTH, HAND.


    >(btw, what do the last words in capitals mean?)


    They're not words. HTH, HAND.

    --
    Andy Mabbett
    Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: <http://www.no2id.net/>

    Free Our Data: <http://www.freeourdata.org.uk>
     
    Andy Mabbett, Aug 5, 2006
    #13
  14. dorayme wrote:

    > Andy Mabbett <> wrote:
    >> Include their URL in your posts. HTH, HAND.

    >
    > (btw, what do the last words in capitals mean?)


    http://acronymfinder.com/

    HTH.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Aug 5, 2006
    #14
  15. On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 14:16:10 +0100, dorayme wrote
    (in article <>):

    > In article <ajAcRoSwOI1EFwD$@pigsonthewing.org.uk>,
    > Andy Mabbett <> wrote:
    >
    >> In message
    >> <>, dorayme
    >> <> writes
    >>
    >>> Naturally I would prefer you not to agree with people on alt.html
    >>> before checking my writings on the matter. But what can I do?

    >>
    >> Include their URL in your posts. HTH, HAND.

    >
    > Ah, yes, but I am not such a big fan of my own writings that I
    > remember where they all are. But it is outrageous that you lot
    > should not know of them. (btw, what do the last words in capitals
    > mean?)
    >
    >


    Are you serious? Hope This Helps, Have A Nice Day :)

    <http://www.acronymfinder.com/>
    HTH<g>


    --
    Sally in Shropshire, UK
    bed and breakfast near Ludlow: http://www.stonybrook-ludlow.co.uk
    Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church:
    http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk
     
    Sally Thompson, Aug 5, 2006
    #15
  16. Lesley Blakey

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Andy Mabbett <> wrote:

    > In message
    > <>, dorayme
    > <> writes
    >
    > >>HTH, HAND.

    >
    > >(btw, what do the last words in capitals mean?)

    >
    > They're not words. HTH, HAND.


    OK, I will change my question: why are you shouting at me?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 5, 2006
    #16
  17. On 2006-08-05, dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Andy Mabbett <> wrote:
    >
    >> In message
    >> <>, dorayme
    >> <> writes
    >>
    >> >>HTH, HAND.

    >>
    >> >(btw, what do the last words in capitals mean?)

    >>
    >> They're not words. HTH, HAND.

    >
    > OK, I will change my question: why are you shouting at me?


    It would only be shouting if they _were_ words.

    (Though I would disagree with that assessment of them. Capitalizing
    words for emphasis is perfectly acceptable; I don't know why it has
    such a bad rep on Usenet. Capitalizing entire sentences could be
    considered shouting, but the main reason against it is that it is
    hard to read.)

    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ===================================================================
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
     
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Aug 5, 2006
    #17
  18. Lesley Blakey

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Sally Thompson <> wrote:

    > Are you serious? Hope This Helps, Have A Nice Day :)
    >
    > <http://www.acronymfinder.com/>
    > HTH<g>


    I am serious about the problem of font size. I do believe we
    should all be using 100% for main body text and not much smaller
    than .85em for other things. But the impression that is given at
    alt.html is, imo, a naive one. Using 100% size does call for some
    special attention to overall design because such a size often
    appears quite big to viewers who themselves (and their browsers)
    are conditioned by majority practice. It looks like a sort of
    arms race. When just a few people are doing the right thing, they
    are the ones that look odd man out, peculiar, gauche. Seems to me
    that people or their browsers are mostly set to see the average
    bunch of websites which use less than 100% - seemingly stupidly -
    as a matter of course. So, given that almost no one knows how to
    change the font size (isn't it just a mouse thing in IE Win, at
    least in FF there are easy key combos), and given that it would
    be nice that they do not have to, it is a slightly complicated
    matter in delivering websites, in this respect.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 6, 2006
    #18
  19. Lesley Blakey

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote:

    > >> >(btw, what do the last words in capitals mean?)
    > >>
    > >> They're not words. HTH, HAND.

    > >
    > > OK, I will change my question: why are you shouting at me?

    >
    > It would only be shouting if they _were_ words.


    But you have to admit that there is a raised volume implied in
    the capitalization of Harmonic Assessment of Negative Dialogue.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 6, 2006
    #19
  20. Lesley Blakey

    Andy Mabbett Guest

    In message
    <>, dorayme
    <> writes

    >> >>HTH, HAND.

    >>
    >> >(btw, what do the last words in capitals mean?)

    >>
    >> They're not words. HTH, HAND.

    >
    >OK, I will change my question: why are you shouting at me?


    I'm not. TTFN.

    --
    Andy Mabbett
    Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: <http://www.no2id.net/>

    Free Our Data: <http://www.freeourdata.org.uk>
     
    Andy Mabbett, Aug 6, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Groove
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,264
    John Timney \( MVP \)
    Apr 5, 2006
  2. Russell
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    602
    Alex Hunsley
    Oct 17, 2004
  3. Jimmy
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    439
    Jimmy
    Oct 15, 2004
  4. KK
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    664
    Big Brian
    Oct 14, 2003
  5. KraftDiner
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    357
    Tim Chase
    Aug 14, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page