choosing a package name

[Roedy Green]

You are both forgetting that it doesn't matter if the ISP has a server
with that name or not. What matters is if the ISP has Java programmers
creating packages like com.bouncesswooch.spam. You would have intruded
on the namespace rightly belonging to the ISP in this case.

Except that people are going to go looking for updates at an url of
the form http://xxxx.com.

I would not do that without permission of the ISP. It could be
construed as trademark infringement. Your own domain is the cost of a
couple of lattes. That is the proper way to go.

Further what happens if you and your ISP have a divorce? You have all
that code with his name on it both the be converted and out in the
world.

People don't like you changing package names!

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

So where does one find a reputable company that will register domain
names cheaply?

I've heard some horror stories. Checking availability then going
back a couple days later to buy it, only to find that the company
has bought it itself. Attempting to transfer the name only to find a
very expensive exit clause.

Tom Hawtin

Friends of mine in the network business recommended GKG.net. So far
they've been great. I haven't tried to leave them, so I can't speak
to that side. I have several domains with them. One nice feature
they have is email obfuscation: they put a legit email address
@gkg.net in your whois. They then pass any email through a spam
filter before sending it to you. So you don't get the four billion
spams you usually get for having a domain registered. You can choose
not to use that service, of course.

They also have a feature to obfuscate your address, for a fee.

The nice thing about these is that gkg.net can always get in touch
with you; spammers can't.

For an example of this obfuscation, see 'whois bounceswoosh.org'

Kinda nice. In the early days of life with my own domain, I actually
got a phone call from an irate idiot threatening to call the Feds
and/or come break down my door because he believed me to be hacking
his machine. In reality, my machine was apparently trying to contact
him on the DNS port, probably because his IP had somehow gotten
registered as a DNS server. Anyway, at the time I lived alone, and
that was fairly scary.

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

I have a friend who bought up all kinds of domains that were
misspellings of big company names, then put up some rather
inflammatory opinion pieces on them. He was dragged into arbitration
"court" over and over and repeatedly lost.

He actually did them a service by pointing people the proper
website, but of course irritating the heck out of fundamentalist
Christians on the way.

Yeah, but in my humble opinion, I don't think that's the same as
having your own domain, not an intentional misspelling of a major
companies, which you actually do use, even as a package hierarchy.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

So where does one find a reputable company that will register domain
names cheaply?
Huuh?

I've heard some horror stories.
Really?!

...Checking availability then going back a
couple days later to buy it, only to find that the company has bought it
itself. Attempting to transfer the name only to find a very expensive
exit clause.

(shrugs) I have dealt with three.
- Register.com - expensive.
- GoDaddy - cheap
- VoxDomains - cheap.

Some aspects that were common to all three.
- fast
- reliable
- no 'exit clause'
- no cybersquatting by the company.

I must be a bit naiive Thomas, I had never *heard* of
the sort of problems you mentioned.

--
Andrew Thompson
physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
"Don't just take me for tryin' to be heavy. Understand, it's time to get
ready.."
Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble 'Couldn't Stand The Weather'

 

[Luke]

Register a domain name.

It's like $7 a year and you don't need to have a server hooked up to
it ... the domain doesn't have to resolve ... but it will be yours,
and yours alone.

The only downside (and it's a minor one) that I can see is that if you
forget to reregister the domain name sometime then it might become the
property of someone else, in which case your package name would be out
of sync.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

The only downside (and it's a minor one) that I can see is that if you
forget to reregister the domain name

Most providors offer a 'remind me by email' service,
either because they want you to pay them more money,
or because they offer it as '..for $2 a year extra'.

..sometime then it might become the property of someone else,

People are stuck in the bad old days when cyber-squatting
made any sense.

The rules have changed, and any entity would be hard pressed
to *retain* your domain name even if they managed to snatch it.

The important thing now is 'Who has the most
legitimate call for the name?'

In a case where..
- You registered the domain
- Used the domain name in Java package statements*, and..
- Backed it up with a site to distribute the package

Any challenger would be hard pressed to justify that they have
a more valid call to the name, unless it is in some way
an actual namesake of the company. E.G. rollsroyce.com
(yes, RR has the sense to cover that one).

The basic line taken by the adjudicators is that they
are more interested in serving the end user, by assigning
domain names to the person, organisation or entity that
the *public* would most expect it to point to.

The bad old days of the cyber-squatter are largely over,
or only still affect the people who are ignorant of their
rights.

* Note that using a domain name as a Java package statement
(in, and of, itself) does not amount to much. I am not even
sure if Sun had the sense to broach it with the standards or
recommendation body (W3C?) that determines such things.

..in which case your package name would be out
of sync.

Not for long.

 

[Chris Uppal]

I've heard some horror stories. Checking availability then going back a
couple days later to buy it, only to find that the company has bought it
itself.

I don't know if that still goes on now that the Internet Gold Rush has stopped.
I'd guess not, but certainly a few years ago my advice would have been to
choose a registrar /first/ (and check the terms and conditions), /then/ choose
a domain name and don't check its availability until you are ready to pay up on
the spot.

-- chris

 

[iamfractal]

Chris Smith skrev:

Probably the only really important guidelines would be:

1. Pick something that will be fairly unique and identify you.
2. Don't use something that would be a valid reversed domain name.

That is fine advice. I'm a little surprised at home much legalism is
being used in other threads, however, which relate to point 2 above.

Coke may own www.coke.com (or have first right to rent it, should we
say), but they don't own com.coke.ed.myPackage, do they?

Just like I can write any email I like about Coke (so long as it's not
liablous (the spelling of which I will not look up)) and publish it
here on news groups, so I would have thought that I can choose any
package name I like, so long as it's unique-ish AND I don't expect my
code to be used in concert with similarly named packages.

For example, I don't work for microsoft and don't think my code ever
will either, so why can't I take the following packages?:

com.microsoft.ed.carpet
com.microsoft.chimpanzees.are.delicious
com.microsoft.linux

If microsoft can stop me using those package names in software, then
they can stop me using the word, "Microsoft," anywhere, which goes way
beyond the powers granted to normal trademark-holders.

(Though if you're reading this, Bill, please don't crush me!)

..ed

 

[Andrew Thompson]

For example, I don't work for microsoft and don't think my code ever
will either, so why can't I take the following packages?:

com.microsoft.ed.carpet

IANAL, and do not especially care if you name your packages
thusly, but given as how the package name might suggest to
end users that further documentation is avaiable at Microsoft,
possibly by searching using the 'ed' keyword, I do not see
the sense of it either.

Package names can provide further information. What is the
point of 'lying'?

--
Andrew Thompson
physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
"Get off your f**kin cross. We need the f**kin space to nail the next fool
martyr."
Tool 'Eulogy'

 

[Oliver Wong]

For example, I don't work for microsoft and don't think my code ever
will either, so why can't I take the following packages?:

com.microsoft.ed.carpet
com.microsoft.chimpanzees.are.delicious
com.microsoft.linux

On the off chance that Microsoft decides to write Java code, they might
give a class with the same name as yours, and then you have a name collision
which Java has no real facility to resolve.

Hence why everyone is supposed to use a unique package name, and why Sun
recommends you use your domain name (which is presumably unique) as the root
of your package name.

- Oliver

 

[Oliver Wong]

I've heard some horror stories.
Really?!

[...]

I must be a bit naiive Thomas, I had never *heard* of
the sort of problems you mentioned.

It happened to me. Back in the early days, there was some service (I
think they were called NetworkSolutions) that was willing to give out free
domain names for low traffic sites; somewhat similar to those dyndns.org
type services, except they would actually register a second level (e.g.
below the .com or .net level) for you. So I got myself a domain.

Then one day they sent me an e-mail saying that they changed their mind
about the free domain name thing, and that I'd have to pay $200 or so if I
wanted to keep it. Lucky I wasn't running a business off that site. I just
let them keep the name and moved my site elsewhere.

- Oliver

 

[Oliver Wong]

Yeah, but in my humble opinion, I don't think that's the same as
having your own domain, not an intentional misspelling of a major
companies, which you actually do use, even as a package hierarchy.

Yes, but because from a legal point of view, it's probably difficult to
prove whether the person was really coming up with his/her own new name, or
was actually using an intentional misspelling.

If I start up a company named Mucrosoft, was it because I knew the "u"
key was near the "i" key on a standard QWERTY keyboard, or because I just
liked the way "Mucrosoft" sounded? And let's not get into Mu being the greek
letter for "Micro".

- Oliver

 

[Andrew Thompson]

I've heard some horror stories.
Really?!

[...]

I must be a bit naiive Thomas, I had never *heard* of
the sort of problems you mentioned.

It happened to me. Back in the early days, there was some service (I
think they were called NetworkSolutions) that was willing to give out free

....erp. There is your key 'danger' word in that one.

The only thing that is dependable about *free* net stuff
is that it 'is subject to change'!

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Yes, but because from a legal point of view, it's probably difficult to
prove whether the person was really coming up with his/her own new name, or
was actually using an intentional misspelling.

The domain naming authority is, as I understand, not
tied down by most of the legalities you mention.

If I start up a company named Mucrosoft, was it because I knew the "u"
key was near the "i" key on a standard QWERTY keyboard, or because I just
liked the way "Mucrosoft" sounded? And let's not get into Mu being the greek
letter for "Micro".

That arugment would not hold water in this day and age.

Given as MS is a household name, your only chance of retaining
that name[1] is if
- you had a *business* of that name[2].
- you had a site to back it up.

[1] Should MS feel it inconvenient enough to challenge.

[2] If you attempted to establish that company name today
I imagine you would have trouble, as infringement of existing
names is taken very seriously when it comes to the registered
name of the company.

But then, try typing 'mucrosoft' in Google..
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mucrosoft>

<in big red friendly letter at top of page>
Did you mean /microsoft/?
</in big red friendly letter at top of page>

I doubt big companies would bother taking action to thwart
a cyber-squatter taking 20 (or 50) closely related names,
so long as the search engines deliver the correct
information to end users..

--
Andrew Thompson
physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
"Their leader was a loathsome old baboon. Had those rascals hooked on
homemade soma"
The Church 'Texas Moon'

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

It happened to me. Back in the early days, there was some
service (I think they were called NetworkSolutions) that was
willing to give out free domain names for low traffic sites;
somewhat similar to those dyndns.org type services, except they
would actually register a second level (e.g. below the .com or
.net level) for you. So I got myself a domain.

Then one day they sent me an e-mail saying that they changed
their mind about the free domain name thing, and that I'd have
to pay $200 or so if I wanted to keep it. Lucky I wasn't running
a business off that site. I just let them keep the name and
moved my site elsewhere.

NetSol was always sleazy. Then they became verislime, but still the
same sleaze ...

That being said, while I heard nightmare stories about verisign
refusing to hand domains over to other registrars, my transfer went
smoothly.

 

[Alex Buell]

If I start up a company named Mucrosoft, was it because I knew the
"u" key was near the "i" key on a standard QWERTY keyboard, or because
I just liked the way "Mucrosoft" sounded? And let's not get into Mu
being the greek letter for "Micro".

At least Bill G's honest about the size and state of his privates.

 

[Shane Petroff]

(shrugs) I have dealt with three.
- Register.com - expensive.
...
- no cybersquatting by the company.

BZZT. They have subsidiaries do it.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

BZZT. They have subsidiaries do it.

Irrelevant. It was a mistake to add 'by the
company', that should have read..

- no cybersquatting.

 

[Shane Petroff]

Irrelevant. It was a mistake to add 'by the
company', that should have read..

- no cybersquatting.

This must be some new definition of irrelevant which I am not familiar with.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Who? When? Name a case. Give us the domain name involved.

Or are you, like most people here, simply quoting some story
you heard about a guy on usenet who reckoned he knew someone
that..? [1]

Irrelevant. It was a mistake to add 'by the
company', that should have read..

- no cybersquatting.

This must be some new definition of irrelevant which I am not familiar with.

I do not have enough time to cover that with which you
are not familiar.

Name a domain in point, make a case. So far what you have
said amounts to 'vague waving around of hands'.

Note that the 5 domain names mentioned in my sig. were
registered by me, through three different domain name
registrants - without *any* problems whatsoever. There
are another couple I have registered on behalf of other
people - again, no sign of a problem.

My *experiences* do not match any of these vague claims
of problems, so I feel that anything less than a specific
case to the contrary, is simply more 'hot air'.

[1] I do not doubt that these things happened long ago -
but that sillyness is over. Prove me wrong by quoting
a recent case.

--
Andrew Thompson
physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
"He thinks he can run, it's a matter of pride. But he keeps coming back,
like a cork on the tide."
Paul Kelly 'Deeper Water'