country select list

[Leszek]

Hi.
Is it possible to make a select lst of all countries in the world?
Is there a list of countries i could download and place it in my form?

thanx
Leszek

 

[Marian Heddesheimer]

Is it possible to make a select lst of all countries in the world?

google could help here:

"country dropdown" found this:

http://www.thefixor.com/help/countryDRP.html

Marian

 

[dsa2kja0f9laj]

Hello Leszek,

Well, I'll tell you what. I just so happen to have such a list on my
webpage. The URL is http://linkfrog.net, and the country list is in a
form on the "Survey du jour" page.

In exchange, I only ask that you fill in the survey--I don't think
anyone from Poland has yet .

Merry Christmas,
Walter Gildersleeve
Freiburg, Germany

______________________________________________________
http://linkfrog.net
URL Shortening
Free and easy, small and green.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Hi.
Is it possible to make a select lst of all countries in the world?
Is there a list of countries i could download and place it in my form?

There is one on this page. You could probably copy the source.

http://www.mailcoach.com/asp/selectcountry.asp

 

[Rob McAninch]

Marian Heddesheimer>:

google could help here:
http://www.thefixor.com/help/countryDRP.html

I question the usefulness of such drop down lists. Most people know
what country they live in and can type it much faster than scrolling
a list (or typing to get the list closer to the choice you need).

It's similar to asking for a birth date, we are so accustomed to
responding that having to scroll lists is less efficient.

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001112.html

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Is it possible to make a select lst of all countries in the world?

Yes, of course, though different people would create different lists, since
there are different definitions of "country".

The right question is: What is the best way to ask the user to a select a
country? A select list is not the right answer, unless you intentionally and
for a good reason limit the choices to a dozen or so countries.

 

[Ed]

Marian Heddesheimer>:



I question the usefulness of such drop down lists. Most people know what
country they live in and can type it much faster than scrolling a list
(or typing to get the list closer to the choice you need).

It's similar to asking for a birth date, we are so accustomed to
responding that having to scroll lists is less efficient.

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001112.html

A drop down down list does force a certain level of consistency in the
answers and makes counting the replies relatively straightforward if
that is the intention.

Once you start asking people what country they live in, or come from,
you can end up with all sorts of problems. For example, try asking
someone born anywhere in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland (that is the official name). You could then get replies
ranging through:

England
Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales
Isle of Man
UK
Great Britain
Britain

Not all of these are legally defined as countries! The list includes
provinces and principalities. But different people will argue
passionately that their own particular area is indeed a country in its
own right.

Far simpler to use a drop down list if you want to tabulate and count
the results.

Yours truly,
Ed
Republic of Ireland
(Or is it Eire, or Ireland, but without the North!!)

 

[Greg N.]

...different people will argue
passionately that their own particular area is indeed a country in its
own right.

Far simpler to use a drop down list if you want to tabulate and count
the results.

It may be difficult for you, the web designer, but let them state their
country. They know better than you. Or make your job easy and piss them
off as a side effect.

Whenever I'm faced with a selection list that does not offer a fitting
choice for me, the site must offer some real good value to motivate me
finish the form.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

A drop down down list does force a certain level of consistency in the
answers

Only if users are nice. They should not be expected to be.

and makes counting the replies relatively straightforward if
that is the intention.

This is actually a _risk_ in a drop down list: it makes you think you can
avoid checking the incoming data in the form handler. It then becomes
vulnerable to even the most trivial attacks.

Once you start asking people what country they live in, or come from,
you can end up with all sorts of problems. For example, try asking
someone born anywhere in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland (that is the official name). You could then get replies
ranging through:

England
Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales
Isle of Man
UK
Great Britain
Britain

Right. So accept them all, or accept just one and link to a document that
lists the countries as you see it.

If you use a drop down list, how is the British user expected to guess
whether whether he should look for his country under "E", "B", "G", or "U"
(or something else) in a list of two hundred countries?

Republic of Ireland
(Or is it Eire, or Ireland, but without the North!!)

Well, according to official EU policy, even the _full_ name (long name,
diplomatic protocol name) of the country is "Ireland". I guess that's because
the Irish government wants it that way.

 

[Jose]

Only if users are nice. They should not be expected to be.

What could a not-nice user do to a drop-down list? (I am not very
webmaster-savvy, the question is at face value)

A drop down list is also one way of enforcing spelling. How would you
otherwise deal with creative spelers?

Jose

 

[dorayme]

Is it possible to make a select lst of all countries in the world?

You mean there may be an irreducible indeterminacy to it? No
possible list could be the truer or more complete than all other
possible lists (not counting itself)?

Interesting idea...

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

What could a not-nice user do to a drop-down list?

Download a copy of your HTML document, edit the select element, and use the
modified document to submit data that crashes your form handler, if it is not
prepared to literally anything. The user could be a cracker, or even just a
naive user who tries to create a "customized" form.

A drop down list is also one way of enforcing spelling.

It moves the problem to variation in country names to the user.

How would you
otherwise deal with creative spelers?

Your form handler can accept whatever you wish to make it accept. This could
be just country names in a fixed list, if you like. Actually most people
probably know how to spell the name of their country.

 

[dorayme]

I question the usefulness of such drop down lists. Most people know
what country they live in and can type it much faster than scrolling
a list (or typing to get the list closer to the choice you need).

Good point. it is helpful mostly to those who want to lie about
their country and can't spell...

 

[Ed]

Only if users are nice. They should not be expected to be.




This is actually a _risk_ in a drop down list: it makes you think you can
avoid checking the incoming data in the form handler. It then becomes
vulnerable to even the most trivial attacks.




Right. So accept them all, or accept just one and link to a document that
lists the countries as you see it.

If you use a drop down list, how is the British user expected to guess
whether whether he should look for his country under "E", "B", "G", or "U"
(or something else) in a list of two hundred countries?




Well, according to official EU policy, even the _full_ name (long name,
diplomatic protocol name) of the country is "Ireland". I guess that's because
the Irish government wants it that way.

I dispute most of the comments/replies that you have made here. But it
would be way off-topic to discuss further in this forum.

But the earlier advice was excellent i.e. the webmaster must ask the
RIGHT question.

So, in the case that the OP presented, the question might be 'From the
drop down list, please select the option that *** best *** describes
your place of birth'. Or something along those lines. I don't want to
argue further on the exact phraseology. What is important, is that the
webmaster strives to get the information that (s)he REALLY wants.

And possibly the list should also include the option 'Other' or some
such equivalent for people who cannot make a choice from the list that
is offered.

Yours truly,
Ed
Republic Of Ireland

 

[Jose]

Download a copy of your HTML document, edit the select element, and use the

modified document to submit data that crashes your form handler

This user could not do the same with a non-drop-down input method? Or
is it the assumption that a drop-down entry method would not be checked
as rigourously that you are on about?

It moves the problem to variation in country names to the user.

.... who can handle it more easily than the computer? Or maybe not.

[to handle creative spelling] Your form handler can accept
whatever you wish to make it accept. This could
be just country names in a fixed list, if you like.

But when a variant is rejected, the user should clearly be told why, or
they will get frustrated. A drop-down list makes that implicit.

My frustration (as a user) with such lists is when they are used for
something like time and date (which is much easier to type than to
select six items from six drop down lists), and when the lists are
"almost big enough" (such as a "time" list that shows ten elements when
there are twelve hours and makes you scroll for the rest.)

I'm not defending drop-downs because I like them, I'm being a bit of a
devil's advocate so I can learn a bit more.

Jose

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

This user could not do the same with a non-drop-down input method?

Of course. The drop-down method just creates a common illusion among authors
that it guarantees something, so that no check of input data is needed.

But when a variant is rejected, the user should clearly be told why, or
they will get frustrated.

You can make it as clear as you like. I would say that saying "Your input
'...' was not recognized as a country name. Please select a country name or
two-letter country code from the list at ..." would be enough.

My frustration (as a user) with such lists is when they are used for
something like time and date (which is much easier to type than to
select six items from six drop down lists), and when the lists are
"almost big enough" (such as a "time" list that shows ten elements when
there are twelve hours and makes you scroll for the rest.)

They are indeed common examples of poor use of drop-down lists. But a very
long list of countries belongs to that set, not the relatively small set of
good uses of drop-down lists in HTML documents.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

I dispute most of the comments/replies that you have made here.

The Usenet way of saying that your opponent is right is to quote him
comprehensively and present no argument against any item.

But it
would be way off-topic to discuss further in this forum.

This is about which constructs should be used in HTML, so if _that_ is off-
topic to you, maybe you should find yourself another forum.

But the earlier advice was excellent i.e. the webmaster must ask the
RIGHT question.

Excuse me while I yawn.

So, in the case that the OP presented, the question might be 'From the
drop down list, please select the option that *** best *** describes
your place of birth'.

You are making the issue just more difficult that way. To begin with, how
does a list drop down in a speech browser, and exactly where do HTML
specifications say that a particular kind of <select> element _must_ be
implemented as a drop down list?

Asking about place of birth is pointless if you are interested - hopefully
for some legitimate reason - about the country of birth, which is an
_official_ matter (and may actually deviate from the country of the physical
birth). There's no reason to make the text any more complicated than
"Country of birth". (If that's what you are asking. In the EU, you would need
very special reasons for asking such things. Check the data protection
directive and the national law that implements it.)

 

[Jose]

But when a variant is rejected, the user should clearly be told why, or

You can make it as clear as you like. I would say that saying "Your input
'...' was not recognized as a country name. Please select a country name or
two-letter country code from the list at ..." would be enough.

Well, then you are giving a list, but AFTER a failed attempt. Further,
you are making the user go elsewhere for that list, wondering if when he
comes back his partly filled-in form will be erased or not (browser and
settings dependent, no?). As a user, I'd rather have a drop-down which
allows typing (and fills in as I go) in circumstances where an exact
match is required. I am given the list from which I must match up
front, and my job as a user is easy.

I would like the most common three or four countries to be at the top
though, as well as in their proper place alphabetcally.

As for what should be recognized as a country - if you "recognize
everything" then the problem in data analysis comes later, but it is the
same problem, and the one person best able to sort the ambiguity is long
gone.

Jose

 

[dorayme]

I dispute most of the comments/replies that you have made here.

The Usenet way of saying that your opponent is right is to quote him
comprehensively and present no argument against any item.[/QUOTE]

There is no argument for this and it is not prima facie true.
Much more plausible is that the person who claims to dispute you
is either incapable of giving the arguments or can't be bothered.
I want that you should think about everything you say in 2006 and
be totally accurate. I don't want to see any more debating
points. Irrelevencies, yes. Lowly debating points, no.

 

[Rob McAninch]

Jose>:

Well, then you are giving a list, but AFTER a failed attempt.

Why a failed attempt? If you have you done your work a list like:

England
Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales
Isle of Man
UK
Great Britain
Britain

Will get distilled to usable information, if you are shipping then
be sure you get something your shipper accepts as deliverable. If
you are just wanting someone's generally geographic location then
lump it all into UK, Europe, Eurasia, or whatever you want to deal with.

Further,
you are making the user go elsewhere for that list, wondering if when he
comes back his partly filled-in form will be erased or not (browser and
settings dependent, no?).

If the person didn't type something I could transform into a
deliverable address (which would be displayed for confirmation) then
I might consider a drop down list to provide the 'near' matches.
Mapquest.com does a similar thing, if I type in only a city I get a
list of links to choose from.

As a user, I'd rather have a drop-down which
allows typing (and fills in as I go) in circumstances where an exact
match is required. I am given the list from which I must match up
front, and my job as a user is easy.

Generally an exact match shouldn't be _required_, or at any rate it
can't be *expected* since you have to validate everything on the
server anyhow. I might expect you to choose a country name from a
drop down list but if I only verify that it is a string of letters
and spaces I might get 'foo bar' submitted. How useful is that?

I would like the most common three or four countries to be at the top
though, as well as in their proper place alphabetcally.

Actually, that annoys me. And how do you decide what's common,
perhaps demographics if you're selling a product, but if you sell
international those four at the top just annoy other potential
customers.

As for what should be recognized as a country - if you "recognize
everything" then the problem in data analysis comes later, but it is the
same problem, and the one person best able to sort the ambiguity is long
gone.

You have to validate the data whether it comes from a drop down list
or is typed in. And this validation should be the same for either
method since your HTML form may not be what is actually submitting
the data to your server.

The question is what is easier for the majority of users. I've
watched a number of less experienced web users and most scroll the
list. They don't know the shortcuts of tapping the first letter (and
even if they do, that list from earlier should point out why a drop
down list may not be the best choice.)