Firefox ignoring CSS color on first view

Discussion in 'HTML' started by alice, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. alice

    alice Guest

    A few days ago I was working on a page (which is not online yet and I
    don't have the code in front of me) and added something like a h1 with
    a specific font color, red I think. When I viewed it for the first
    time in Firefox, the text was black, but when I reloaded it, it was
    red. In IE and Safari it was red the first time. This happened to
    someone else in the same office. The font color was wrong the first
    time they saw it in Firefox. Of course I can't duplicate the error
    anymore. I've tried searching the web for any known issues like this
    but can't find anything. I'm just wondering if this is a known bug of
    some sort, or something that could be avoided somehow. I don't want
    viewers to have to reload on the first time to get the proper color.
    It may have been the child of another element with color attributes,
    but this should be over-ridden by the specificity of .h1 {font-
    color: } shoulnd't it? At least the other two browsers act this way.
    The text was not a link, or selected on the page, or anything else I
    can think of that would make it a different color, and it was not in
    the cache already with an old color, it was the first time viewed with
    that element added.
     
    alice, Aug 9, 2007
    #1
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  2. alice

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    alice wrote:
    > A few days ago I was working on a page (which is not online yet and I
    > don't have the code in front of me) and added something like a h1 with
    > a specific font color, red I think. When I viewed it for the first
    > time in Firefox, the text was black, but when I reloaded it, it was
    > red. In IE and Safari it was red the first time. This happened to
    > someone else in the same office. The font color was wrong the first
    > time they saw it in Firefox. Of course I can't duplicate the error
    > anymore. I've tried searching the web for any known issues like this
    > but can't find anything. I'm just wondering if this is a known bug of
    > some sort, or something that could be avoided somehow. I don't want
    > viewers to have to reload on the first time to get the proper color.
    > It may have been the child of another element with color attributes,
    > but this should be over-ridden by the specificity of .h1 {font-
    > color: } shoulnd't it? At least the other two browsers act this way.
    > The text was not a link, or selected on the page, or anything else I
    > can think of that would make it a different color, and it was not in
    > the cache already with an old color, it was the first time viewed with
    > that element added.

    Hmmm could it be a chache problem in FireFox, as an example with the
    University proxxy I am currently useing I need to refresh after almost
    every change has been uploaded to the server. If firefox is your
    default browser then it might be that you need to go to tools > clear
    Private data and clean your cache.
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz
     
    Chaddy2222, Aug 9, 2007
    #2
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  3. alice

    alice Guest

    On Aug 9, 9:25 am, Chaddy2222 <>
    wrote:
    > alice wrote:
    > > A few days ago I was working on a page (which is not online yet and I
    > > don't have the code in front of me) and added something like a h1 with
    > > a specific font color, red I think. When I viewed it for the first
    > > time in Firefox, the text was black, but when I reloaded it, it was
    > > red. In IE and Safari it was red the first time. This happened to
    > > someone else in the same office. The font color was wrong the first
    > > time they saw it in Firefox. Of course I can't duplicate the error
    > > anymore. I've tried searching the web for any known issues like this
    > > but can't find anything. I'm just wondering if this is a known bug of
    > > some sort, or something that could be avoided somehow. I don't want
    > > viewers to have to reload on the first time to get the proper color.
    > > It may have been the child of another element with color attributes,
    > > but this should be over-ridden by the specificity of .h1 {font-
    > > color: } shoulnd't it? At least the other two browsers act this way.
    > > The text was not a link, or selected on the page, or anything else I
    > > can think of that would make it a different color, and it was not in
    > > the cache already with an old color, it was the first time viewed with
    > > that element added.

    >
    > Hmmm could it be a chache problem in FireFox, as an example with the
    > University proxxy I am currently useing I need to refresh after almost
    > every change has been uploaded to the server. If firefox is your
    > default browser then it might be that you need to go to tools > clear
    > Private data and clean your cache.
    > --
    > Regards Chad.http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    But my concern is, will anyone going to this page the first time using
    Firefox also have to clear their cache in order to get it to display
    the correct color? That is not desireable. There must be a way to code
    a page to get Firefox to display colors correctly the first time.
     
    alice, Aug 9, 2007
    #3
  4. alice wrote:

    > But my concern is, will anyone going to this page the first time using
    > Firefox also have to clear their cache in order to get it to display
    > the correct color?


    Maybe, but only if they had visited the page before you changed the
    color. New visitors will see it as you've coded it - _unless_ the page
    is being cached at some in-the-path caching server.

    Browsers can also be set to "fetch a new copy on every visit" in which
    case you would have seen red text immediately.

    > That is not desireable. There must be a way to code a page to get
    > Firefox to display colors correctly the first time.


    Same thing would occur with other browsers. You can't control a
    visitor's browser cache.

    Yeah, I know you said "In IE and Safari it was red the first time" and
    it would be that way if they (those browsers) never visited before.

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Aug 9, 2007
    #4
  5. alice

    alice Guest

    On Aug 9, 10:29 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:
    > alice wrote:
    > > But my concern is, will anyone going to this page the first time using
    > > Firefox also have to clear their cache in order to get it to display
    > > the correct color?

    >
    > Maybe, but only if they had visited the page before you changed the
    > color. New visitors will see it as you've coded it - _unless_ the page
    > is being cached at some in-the-path caching server.
    >
    > Browsers can also be set to "fetch a new copy on every visit" in which
    > case you would have seen red text immediately.
    >
    > > That is not desireable. There must be a way to code a page to get
    > > Firefox to display colors correctly the first time.

    >
    > Same thing would occur with other browsers. You can't control a
    > visitor's browser cache.
    >
    > Yeah, I know you said "In IE and Safari it was red the first time" and
    > it would be that way if they (those browsers) never visited before.
    >
    > --
    > -bts
    > -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck


    I guess I still don't understand why it was black the first time I
    loaded the page. If that happened on my computer, why wouldn't it
    happen on other computers?
     
    alice, Aug 9, 2007
    #5
  6. alice wrote:

    > I guess I still don't understand why it was black the first time I
    > loaded the page. If that happened on my computer, why wouldn't it
    > happen on other computers?


    The page was already in your browser's cache, with a black color code.
    Once you refreshed the page, you *now* pulled a fresh copy from the web
    server, with the red code.

    It was not in the cache on the other computers, hence they got a red
    code upon first visit.

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Aug 9, 2007
    #6
  7. alice wrote:
    > On Aug 9, 10:29 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    > <> wrote:
    >> alice wrote:
    >>> But my concern is, will anyone going to this page the first time using
    >>> Firefox also have to clear their cache in order to get it to display
    >>> the correct color?

    >> Maybe, but only if they had visited the page before you changed the
    >> color. New visitors will see it as you've coded it - _unless_ the page
    >> is being cached at some in-the-path caching server.
    >>
    >> Browsers can also be set to "fetch a new copy on every visit" in which
    >> case you would have seen red text immediately.
    >>
    >>> That is not desireable. There must be a way to code a page to get
    >>> Firefox to display colors correctly the first time.

    >> Same thing would occur with other browsers. You can't control a
    >> visitor's browser cache.
    >>
    >> Yeah, I know you said "In IE and Safari it was red the first time" and
    >> it would be that way if they (those browsers) never visited before.


    <snip signature>

    > I guess I still don't understand why it was black the first time I
    > loaded the page. If that happened on my computer, why wouldn't it
    > happen on other computers?
    >


    If it was black the *very first* time of loading the URL when the CSS
    specified red then it is not a caching error but more likely a markup
    and|or CSS syntax error. But without a URL to the actual code than it is
    anyone's guess.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Aug 9, 2007
    #7
  8. alice

    alice Guest

    On Aug 9, 11:42 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:
    > alice wrote:
    > > I guess I still don't understand why it was black the first time I
    > > loaded the page. If that happened on my computer, why wouldn't it
    > > happen on other computers?

    >
    > The page was already in your browser's cache, with a black color code.
    > Once you refreshed the page, you *now* pulled a fresh copy from the web
    > server, with the red code.
    >
    > It was not in the cache on the other computers, hence they got a red
    > code upon first visit.
    >


    But on a co-workers PC, they also got the black text, even though they
    had never seen the page before. It shoulnd't have been in their cache.
    And this particular bit of text and the color code that goes with it,
    was red from the very beginning, it was never set to black ever in
    it's life time. So why would the cache have a 'black' copy of it, why
    not green or blue? It only ever was red, or should have been.

    > --
    > -bts
    > -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
     
    alice, Aug 9, 2007
    #8
  9. alice

    alice Guest

    On Aug 9, 12:08 pm, "Jonathan N. Little" <>
    wrote:
    > alice wrote:
    > > On Aug 9, 10:29 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    > > <> wrote:
    > >> alice wrote:
    > >>> But my concern is, will anyone going to this page the first time using
    > >>> Firefox also have to clear their cache in order to get it to display
    > >>> the correct color?
    > >> Maybe, but only if they had visited the page before you changed the
    > >> color. New visitors will see it as you've coded it - _unless_ the page
    > >> is being cached at some in-the-path caching server.

    >
    > >> Browsers can also be set to "fetch a new copy on every visit" in which
    > >> case you would have seen red text immediately.

    >
    > >>> That is not desireable. There must be a way to code a page to get
    > >>> Firefox to display colors correctly the first time.
    > >> Same thing would occur with other browsers. You can't control a
    > >> visitor's browser cache.

    >
    > >> Yeah, I know you said "In IE and Safari it was red the first time" and
    > >> it would be that way if they (those browsers) never visited before.

    >
    > <snip signature>
    >
    > > I guess I still don't understand why it was black the first time I
    > > loaded the page. If that happened on my computer, why wouldn't it
    > > happen on other computers?

    >
    > If it was black the *very first* time of loading the URL when the CSS
    > specified red then it is not a caching error but more likely a markup
    > and|or CSS syntax error. But without a URL to the actual code than it is
    > anyone's guess.
    >
    > --
    > Take care,
    >
    > Jonathan
    > -------------------
    > LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    This is what I'm wondering, but if it is an error in the code, that
    implies that there is a bit of code that could make text a different
    color the first time it is viewed in Firefox. So even though I don't
    have that code in front of me, can someone show me what kind of code -
    could- do this, if it is possible?
     
    alice, Aug 9, 2007
    #9
  10. alice wrote:
    > On Aug 9, 12:08 pm, "Jonathan N. Little" <>
    > wrote:



    First a little Usenet etiquette. Since you are not using a newsreader
    but accessing via GoogleGroups you should manually remove signatures
    from your quoting, the part after the '-- ' in my message.

    >> --
    >> Take care,
    >>
    >> Jonathan
    >> -------------------
    >> LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com- Hide quoted text -



    Also you should snip anything redundant or what you are not responding to.

    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > This is what I'm wondering, but if it is an error in the code, that
    > implies that there is a bit of code that could make text a different
    > color the first time it is viewed in Firefox. So even though I don't
    > have that code in front of me, can someone show me what kind of code -
    > could- do this, if it is possible?


    No. You have it the wrong way around. Show us *your* page and we will
    have at least a chance to locate the trouble.

    Preemptive answers to lame excuses for *not* proving a URL:

    1. If only on local LAN|machine|intranet upload a copy to a public
    server and provide a URL

    2. Use a temp folder on your website for examples and questions.

    3. Use your personal webspace from your ISP.

    4. Get free webspace from free webservers

    5. Use Google to find such servers...




    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Aug 9, 2007
    #10
  11. alice

    Ben C Guest

    On 2007-08-09, alice <> wrote:
    [...]
    > This is what I'm wondering, but if it is an error in the code, that
    > implies that there is a bit of code that could make text a different
    > color the first time it is viewed in Firefox. So even though I don't
    > have that code in front of me, can someone show me what kind of code -
    > could- do this, if it is possible?


    It's not possible, at least not unless you do it deliberately by writing
    a cookie or tracking connections on the server. Neither are things you
    could very feasibly do by accident.

    There must be some other explanation.

    If the second person saw black then red, but the first time they visited
    the page was after it had been changed to red, then perhaps the black
    version was not in the browser's cache but in the cache of a proxy
    between the real server and the browser.

    When you update a web-page, people can still connect (for the first
    time) and get the old one for a little while. Publishing things on the
    www is done by "pull" not "push". In other words, the new page isn't
    pushed out to all the computers in the world, it just sits there and
    they have to come and get it. A page can be marked with an expiry date
    and a proxy should re-fetch any cached page anyone asks for which is
    past its date. I'm not sure if the server puts some reasonable default
    if you don't set it up, or if the page just goes out with no date and
    proxies use their own defaults.
     
    Ben C, Aug 9, 2007
    #11
  12. alice

    alice Guest


    >
    > It's not possible, at least not unless you do it deliberately by writing
    > a cookie or tracking connections on the server. Neither are things you
    > could very feasibly do by accident.


    This is what I thought, thanks for being able to answer it, and not
    just saying I'm lame for not providing the code or URL.

    >
    > There must be some other explanation.
    >
    > If the second person saw black then red, but the first time they visited
    > the page was after it had been changed to red,


    The whole reason that this troubled me, is that it was never -changed-
    to red, it always was red. There never could have been a black version
    to be cached in any way shape or form. This is why I'm wondering if
    anyone else has experienced this.
     
    alice, Aug 10, 2007
    #12
  13. alice

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    alice <> wrote:

    >
    > >
    > > It's not possible, at least not unless you do it deliberately by writing
    > > a cookie or tracking connections on the server. Neither are things you
    > > could very feasibly do by accident.

    >
    > This is what I thought, thanks for being able to answer it, and not
    > just saying I'm lame for not providing the code or URL.
    >
    > >
    > > There must be some other explanation.
    > >
    > > If the second person saw black then red, but the first time they visited
    > > the page was after it had been changed to red,

    >
    > The whole reason that this troubled me, is that it was never -changed-
    > to red, it always was red. There never could have been a black version
    > to be cached in any way shape or form. This is why I'm wondering if
    > anyone else has experienced this.


    It is not hard to get puzzles with links when you have complex
    style sheets. There are all sorts of tricky issues that can throw
    one. There are default style sheets that operate. In other words,
    apart from cache, a browser takes all the css into account and
    resolves according to the cascading rules. These are not
    intuitively simple in practice. A url is very important in this
    and there is nothing lame about the call for it.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 10, 2007
    #13
  14. alice

    Neredbojias Guest

    Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:14:45 GMT
    alice scribed:

    >
    >>
    >> It's not possible, at least not unless you do it deliberately by writing
    >> a cookie or tracking connections on the server. Neither are things you
    >> could very feasibly do by accident.

    >
    > This is what I thought, thanks for being able to answer it, and not
    > just saying I'm lame for not providing the code or URL.
    >
    >>
    >> There must be some other explanation.
    >>
    >> If the second person saw black then red, but the first time they visited
    >> the page was after it had been changed to red,

    >
    > The whole reason that this troubled me, is that it was never -changed-
    > to red, it always was red. There never could have been a black version
    > to be cached in any way shape or form. This is why I'm wondering if
    > anyone else has experienced this.


    What does the page look like with css disabled?

    --
    Neredbojias
    Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.
     
    Neredbojias, Aug 10, 2007
    #14
  15. alice

    Ben C Guest

    On 2007-08-09, alice <> wrote:
    [...]
    >> If the second person saw black then red, but the first time they visited
    >> the page was after it had been changed to red,

    >
    > The whole reason that this troubled me, is that it was never -changed-
    > to red, it always was red. There never could have been a black version
    > to be cached in any way shape or form. This is why I'm wondering if
    > anyone else has experienced this.


    That is strange. I'm leaning towards dorayme's suggestion that it might
    have had something to do with the HTML page arriving before the CSS file
    in some way for some reason.
     
    Ben C, Aug 10, 2007
    #15
  16. alice

    alice Guest

    On Aug 10, 11:40 am, Ben C <> wrote:
    > On 2007-08-09, alice <> wrote:
    > [...]
    >
    > >> If the second person saw black then red, but the first time they visited
    > >> the page was after it had been changed to red,

    >
    > > The whole reason that this troubled me, is that it was never -changed-
    > > to red, it always was red. There never could have been a black version
    > > to be cached in any way shape or form. This is why I'm wondering if
    > > anyone else has experienced this.

    >
    > That is strange. I'm leaning towards dorayme's suggestion that it might
    > have had something to do with the HTML page arriving before the CSS file
    > in some way for some reason.


    That actually sounds like the first plausible theory so far. I did
    happen on two different PCs, so if it was a freak accident it may have
    been on the part of the server or network, which does open up a whole
    series of possibilities. A third person in the office did not have the
    same experience.
     
    alice, Aug 10, 2007
    #16
  17. alice wrote:
    > On Aug 10, 11:40 am, Ben C <> wrote:
    >> On 2007-08-09, alice <> wrote:
    >> [...]
    >>
    >>>> If the second person saw black then red, but the first time they visited
    >>>> the page was after it had been changed to red,
    >>> The whole reason that this troubled me, is that it was never -changed-
    >>> to red, it always was red. There never could have been a black version
    >>> to be cached in any way shape or form. This is why I'm wondering if
    >>> anyone else has experienced this.

    >> That is strange. I'm leaning towards dorayme's suggestion that it might
    >> have had something to do with the HTML page arriving before the CSS file
    >> in some way for some reason.

    >
    > That actually sounds like the first plausible theory so far. I did
    > happen on two different PCs, so if it was a freak accident it may have
    > been on the part of the server or network, which does open up a whole
    > series of possibilities. A third person in the office did not have the
    > same experience.
    >


    Of course we may dispel the speculation if we could actually *see* the code!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Aug 11, 2007
    #17
  18. alice

    dorayme Guest

    In article <5bb6b$46bcee18$40cba7aa$>,
    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

    > Of course we may dispel the speculation if we could actually *see* the code!
    >


    It _is_ exquisitely frustrating! To think, for all his need for
    secrecy, we could poke about as much as we liked in Luigi's code.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 11, 2007
    #18
  19. dorayme wrote:
    > In article <5bb6b$46bcee18$40cba7aa$>,
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Of course we may dispel the speculation if we could actually *see* the code!
    >>

    >
    > It _is_ exquisitely frustrating! To think, for all his need for
    > secrecy, we could poke about as much as we liked in Luigi's code.
    >


    I bet the answer is invalid markup. Firefox makes one *assumption* on
    first load as page is build from remote source but makes another upon
    drawing from cache. I have see such behavior with other bad pages and
    other browsers...but screw it if this page is so secret the OP can live
    with the problem!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Aug 11, 2007
    #19
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