Free line breaking

[Klaus Cammin]

HI Jonathan,

What is 'Schusterjungen'????

Orphans. There are window sizes in which the browser creates lines with only
1 or 2 elements, then a normal line again. This looks not good. The elements
should wind like a snake through the available space and use as much line
space as possible.


Viele Grüße
Klaus

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

HI Jonathan,


Orphans. There are window sizes in which the browser creates lines with only
1 or 2 elements, then a normal line again. This looks not good. The elements
should wind like a snake through the available space and use as much line
space as possible.

Well you have only two options, use a table and predefine the number of
columns where if the window is too narrow you get a horizontal scrollbar
(no really nice) or if the window is wider you get blank space on the
right (typical of static width layouts that also looks bad). Or use DIVs
as discrete units that automatically adjust the number of 'columns' to
fit both various window dimensions and text sizes that under certain
combinations may leave one or two orphaned flag and caption on your
bottom row. Personally I believe the latter is a better option because
it is more in the spirit of how the web is supposed to work for the user.

 

[Klaus Cammin]

Hi Jonathan,

Well you have only two options, use a table and predefine the number of
columns where if the window is too narrow you get a horizontal scrollbar
(no really nice) or if the window is wider you get blank space on the
right (typical of static width layouts that also looks bad).

This is what I had before, and these are exactly the reasons why I wanted a
change. ;-)

that under certain
combinations may leave one or two orphaned flag and caption on your
bottom row.

This dösen't bother me, they just shouldn't appear in between.
But what I have now looss acceptable at least with Firefox and IE.
I may soon have the opportunity to check Konqueror.

Thanks for your support anyway.

Viele Grüße
Klaus

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Hi Jonathan,


This is what I had before, and these are exactly the reasons why I wanted a
change. ;-)

Agree, most do it that way but it is bad design IMHO.

This dösen't bother me, they just shouldn't appear in between.

In between what?

But what I have now looss acceptable at least with Firefox and IE.
I may soon have the opportunity to check Konqueror.

What way are you doing now? URL?

 

[dorayme]

Its a thing they borrowed from the Win world in a way... When you
hover on the red, a "x" appears in it and this circle is for
quitting. The middle orange, a "-" appears and it is for
minimising (it goes into the altogether too cute dock. How I hate
it still!) and the green gets a "+" and this expands the window
to fit the contents - no not beyond the edge of the screen, Macs
are very clever but not magical...

Wow that was intuitive! ;-)[/QUOTE]

Particularly for right handed earthings (most of you are, I
understand?): on the left top.

On pre X there were 2 top right boxes, one for collapsing the
window into its title bar, the other for resizing, the symbols
_were_ intuitively meaningful:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/droovies/pics/preMacWindowControls.
png

Notice also the bottom right full-control mouse resize box. I
mention because it is infinitely superior to the Win equivalent
which is either no box and/or an uncertain fiddley magical
fishing trip with the mouse to bring up the right sort of
cursor.... which now and again actually engages!

 

[dorayme]

http://home.pages.at/klaca/ENFLAGS1_JOHN.HTM

This loads altogether too slowly

 

[dorayme]

Hi dorayme,



I did that and it's a real improvement!
Increasing text sizes seems to be resolved.
How is it with your browser now?

Viele Grüße
Klaus

I am still trying to get your page on broadband... methinks
something is wrong... no set of flags could take that long...

ah... finally:

"Safari can¹t open the page."

 

[dorayme]

Hi dorayme,


I see that your browser alignes the flags at the upper edge, which mine
dösn't. If that could be done by an additional declaration and a margin-
bottom for the thumb-section is defined, would that solve the problem?

Furthermore I should use em for the measurements, eh? ;-)


Viele Grüße
Klaus

I beg you now Klaus! Please use a table. Please! I want that
there be something that has some order, some alignment, some
visual boxy look, some invariance, some break from the
higgledypiggledyness. (Is that what Schusterjungen means?).
Visible borders of a table and the cells will provide a much
needed order.

Don't worry about whether it is tabular data - it is. And do
something about making it easier to load for dial up users

 

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

So, the whole thing gös kapunk when increasing text sizes ... :-(
I'll add font declarations, do they prevent the browser from increasing the
text size?

They may, or may not. If they do, they may be undreadable. IOW,
don't do that.

 

[Klaus Cammin]

Hi dorayme,

"Safari can't open the page."

Obviously my the server home.pages.at is down. :-(
So my site isn't available to any browser for the moment.


Viele Grüße
Klaus

 

[Klaus Cammin]

Hi Jonathan,

In between what?

The lines. If there is only one or few flags left in the *last* line, this
can't be avoided, but those short lines should not appear among fully filled
lines.

What way are you doing now? URL?

Do you mean how I program my pages? Well, I don't use a web design program,
but created own dirty written Turbo Pascal programs to create the HTML files.
Of course I have everything here locally.

I could see if Konqueror does it right, if I could bring up my SUSE 8.2
partition. But it don't work because recently I bought a TFT monitor which
does not support the former installed video mode. So I have to reattach the
old monitor first.


Viele Grüße
Klaus

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Hi Jonathan,


The lines. If there is only one or few flags left in the *last* line, this
can't be avoided, but those short lines should not appear among fully filled
lines.

Do you mean the caption text for each flag or do you mean some other
text that follows the flag and caption DIVs?

If you mean your the latter, text that follows the flag and caption
DIVs, say like a paragraph or a heading for another section. To keep
them apart just style the following block of text to clear floats.

<div class="flags">
.....
<div>
<a href="someFlagPage.html"><img src=""someFlagPage.GIF"></a>
<a href="someFlagPage.html">Some Flag</a>
</div>
</div>
<p style="clear: both;">Now this text will stay below any of the flag

Do you mean how I program my pages? Well, I don't use a web design program,
but created own dirty written Turbo Pascal programs to create the HTML files.
Of course I have everything here locally.

No I meant among all the suggestions of how to create your captioned
thumbs which one are you test now...a URL will show us.


Another thing I noticed. Windows is not case sensitive, but most
webservers on the Internet are therefore AFGHANIS.GIF and afghanis.gif
would not be the same file, nor Afghanis.gif. You may be using an MS
server now that will ignore such discrepancies but should you ever
change servers *nix, Solaris or such your website will break very, very
badly. I would get in the habit of being constant with case of your
filenames and paths...

 

[Klaus Cammin]

Hallo Jonathan N. Little,

Do you mean the caption text for each flag or do you mean some other
text that follows the flag and caption DIVs?

No, I don't mean "text orphans", but "element orphans".
Well, here is a pic: http://www.klaca.de/orphans.gif

It's IE who does that, with Mozilla Firefox your way looks fine.

No I meant among all the suggestions of how to create your captioned
thumbs which one are you test now...a URL will show us.

Sorry for not understanding, already got dizzy with the whole crap.
I uploaded it already, so you may use the URLs I posted before.

http://home.pages.at/klaca/INDEX_EN.HTM
http://home.pages.at/klaca/flaggen.css /* here are the CSS declarations */

Nothing seems to work right, already thinking of giving up and return to my
Tables. :-(

Windows is not case sensitive, but most
webservers on the Internet are therefore AFGHANIS.GIF and afghanis.gif
would not be the same file, nor Afghanis.gif.

Yeah, I know, I tripped into that trap several times. :-(
Cursing all along why a change did not take effect and then discovered that
always the mispelled file was accessed ... With me at home everything was
fine. ;-(

I would get in the habit of being constant with case of your
filenames and paths...

Too good an advice not to be followed.


Viele Grüße
Klaus

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Hallo Jonathan N. Little,


No, I don't mean "text orphans", but "element orphans".
Well, here is a pic: http://www.klaca.de/orphans.gif

It's IE who does that, with Mozilla Firefox your way looks fine.

1) Floating to the right is a bit odd. Most folks read from right to left.

2) IE, which is almost always a problem, may need you so set a height
for the floated block. It also has the benefit of keeping a consistent
'grid' look to the rows. I would adjust the height that would work to
accommodate the longest caption. I think you need to read up on CSS

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/cover.html

and practice a little bit first and get a handle on what certain
properties do.

Sorry for not understanding, already got dizzy with the whole crap.
I uploaded it already, so you may use the URLs I posted before.

http://home.pages.at/klaca/INDEX_EN.HTM
http://home.pages.at/klaca/flaggen.css /* here are the CSS declarations */

Nothing seems to work right, already thinking of giving up and return to my
Tables. :-(

Might be best for you. Your current method has a problem with long
captions like "Islamic Federal Republic of the Comoros". But for the
record, what you wish to to can be done without relying on tables.

Yeah, I know, I tripped into that trap several times. :-(
Cursing all along why a change did not take effect and then discovered that
always the mispelled file was accessed ... With me at home everything was
fine. ;-(


Too good an advice not to be followed.

Most come around after wasting countless hours debugging a website only
to find a letter case error!