freestanding vs hosted implementations

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Bill Cunningham, Jul 5, 2003.

  1. I hope this isn't OT.
    What is the purpose of a free standing implementation of C? stdio.h
    isn't even included. I've only used hosted implentation.

    Bill





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    Bill Cunningham, Jul 5, 2003
    #1
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  2. Bill Cunningham

    Artie Gold Guest

    [OT] Could you elaborate? Re: freestanding vs hosted implementations

    bd wrote:
    > On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:45:43 -0400, Bill Cunningham wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I hope this isn't OT.
    >> What is the purpose of a free standing implementation of C? stdio.h
    >>isn't even included. I've only used hosted implentation.

    >
    >
    > In some situations, the whole C Library would be impossible to fit. E.g.
    > an embedded device. Or, it may not yet be available, like in the Linux

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > kernel.

    ~~~~~~~

    Could you elaborate?

    Thanks,
    --ag


    --
    Artie Gold -- Austin, Texas



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    Artie Gold, Jul 5, 2003
    #2
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  3. Bill Cunningham

    bd Guest

    Re: [OT] Could you elaborate? Re: freestanding vs hosted implementations

    On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:53:48 -0500, Artie Gold wrote:

    > bd wrote:
    >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:45:43 -0400, Bill Cunningham wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I hope this isn't OT.
    >>> What is the purpose of a free standing implementation of C? stdio.h
    >>>isn't even included. I've only used hosted implentation.

    >>
    >>
    >> In some situations, the whole C Library would be impossible to fit. E.g.
    >> an embedded device. Or, it may not yet be available, like in the Linux

    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >> kernel.

    > ~~~~~~~
    >
    > Could you elaborate?


    The Linux kernel dosen't have access to the C library - it's responsible
    for using non-standard methods to load it for other programs. Also, the
    malloc() method of memory allocation is unacceptable for the kernel, as it
    leads to internal fragmentation of the address space.

    --
    Freenet distribution not available
    I have often regretted my speech, never my silence.
    -- Publilius Syrus
     
    bd, Jul 5, 2003
    #3
  4. Bill Cunningham

    Simon Biber Guest

    Re: [OT] Could you elaborate? Re: freestanding vs hosted implementations

    Artie Gold wrote:
    > bd wrote:
    > > In some situations, the whole C Library would be impossible to fit.
    > > E.g. an embedded device. Or, it may not yet be available, like in

    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > > the Linux kernel.

    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >
    > Could you elaborate?


    Code that runs from an operating system kernel, such as a device driver,
    typically does not have access to the C standard library. The kernel is
    considered to be a freestanding environment.

    --
    Simon.
     
    Simon Biber, Jul 5, 2003
    #4
  5. Bill Cunningham

    Artie Gold Guest

    Re: [OT] Could you elaborate? Re: freestanding vs hosted implementations

    bd wrote:
    > On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:53:48 -0500, Artie Gold wrote:
    >
    >
    >>bd wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:45:43 -0400, Bill Cunningham wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I hope this isn't OT.
    >>>> What is the purpose of a free standing implementation of C? stdio.h
    >>>>isn't even included. I've only used hosted implentation.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>In some situations, the whole C Library would be impossible to fit. E.g.
    >>>an embedded device. Or, it may not yet be available, like in the Linux

    >>
    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >>
    >>>kernel.

    >>
    >> ~~~~~~~
    >>
    >>Could you elaborate?

    >
    >
    > The Linux kernel dosen't have access to the C library - it's responsible
    > for using non-standard methods to load it for other programs. Also, the
    > malloc() method of memory allocation is unacceptable for the kernel, as it
    > leads to internal fragmentation of the address space.
    >

    Ah. _That's_ what you meant.
    Of course, infinite regress being what it is.... ;-)
    [Of course a kernel would be inherently non-standard in any event; its
    `hostedness' is largely irrelevant.]

    Thanks,
    --ag


    --
    Artie Gold -- Austin, Texas



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    Artie Gold, Jul 5, 2003
    #5
  6. Bill Cunningham

    Morris Dovey Guest

    Bill Cunningham wrote:
    > What is the purpose of a free standing implementation of C?
    > stdio.h isn't even included. I've only used hosted
    > implentation.


    Basically, it provides for those environments where C programs
    can have non-standard entry/exit mechanisms, i.e. no command line
    (and hence no command line parameters, no system() function that
    depends on a shell or command line interpreter, and (perhaps)
    nothing to return to.

    Most of the free-standing implementations are embedded
    applications (e.g. cable modem, washing machine); and the
    remainder are the "host" part of hosted systems (ex: kernel, I/O
    subsystems).

    Free-standing implementations are free to dispense with support
    for those elements set forth in the standard that just don't make
    any sense in their particular context. Typically, the standard
    I/O capabilities are severely trimmed or omitted, memory
    management may be dropped in favor of pre-allocated
    regions/variables, and pointers to specific memory, I/O, and
    control space locations may abound.
    --
    Morris Dovey
    West Des Moines, Iowa USA
    C links at http://www.iedu.com/c
     
    Morris Dovey, Jul 6, 2003
    #6
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