Help cleaning up table tags

Discussion in 'HTML' started by mjones, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. mjones

    mjones Guest

    Hi,

    I've inherited someone else's html mess and I'm wondering if anyone has
    an idea how to make the task simpler. The screen is messed up and a
    client has asked me to fix it.

    The indents have not been included (or when they are you can't trust
    them). I think many people have hacked away at the file over time.

    There are:
    - 20 tables
    - 32 tr's
    - 52 td's
    - five include files that call each other (not all one after the other)
    - 43 images (some background)

    I'm bringing it into Word and inserting all the images so I can see
    them and trying to set up the indents, but it's really tedious. Time
    is money, but clients don't understand how difficult fixing a few lines
    and boxes can be so you end up just being a nice person.

    Does anyone have a good strategy; or any strategy?

    Help is much appreciated as always.

    Thanks,

    Michele
     
    mjones, Mar 21, 2006
    #1
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  2. mjones

    Jose Guest

    > I'm bringing it into Word

    NOOOOOooooooo~!

    Don't use Word, or FrontPage, for editing HTML. It is probably the
    -cause- of a lot of the problems.

    Without a URL it's hard to offer solid advice, but if it is really
    messed up and you are using tables for layout (which it sounds like you
    are), it really needs a rewrite with CSS.

    Jose
    --
    Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, Mar 21, 2006
    #2
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  3. mjones

    mjones Guest

    Thanks for the response Jose.

    I'm not editing the file in Word, just trying to understand it by
    putting the images in. I'm taking out all the Javascript and just
    leaving the images in the cells to try and sort it out. It's
    impossible to edit in html. I just can't figure it out. Homesite gave
    me 29 errors and most of them are nesting errors.

    I agree 100% on the CSS requirement, but unfortunately, it's part of
    something much bigger so I can't get into that. The software
    manufacture actually charges over $300 USD for software that's full of
    nesting errors and no CSS file.

    I suppose I'll just keep plugging away, trying to understand what goes
    where.

    I won't get into showing you the site or two of us will be crazy. Just
    wondering if there was some software to match tags or something.

    Take care,

    Michele
     
    mjones, Mar 21, 2006
    #3
  4. mjones

    Jose Guest

    Try importing it into Netscape Composer. It's free, wysiwyg (sort of)
    and might help you see what was intended.

    Jose
    --
    Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, Mar 21, 2006
    #4
  5. mjones

    Wÿrm Guest

    "mjones" <> kirjoitti
    viestissä:...

    <snip>

    > I think many people have hacked away at the file over time.
    >
    > There are:
    > - 20 tables
    > - 32 tr's
    > - 52 td's
    > - five include files that call each other (not all one after the other)
    > - 43 images (some background)


    I usually find it to be faster (especially if there would be original layout
    image or so of the site) just rewrite layout from the scratch using CSS. So
    maybe you could try that aproach?

    <snip>
     
    Wÿrm, Mar 21, 2006
    #5
  6. mjones

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Ed Mullen, Mar 21, 2006
    #6
  7. Jose wrote:

    > Try importing it into Netscape Composer. It's free, wysiwyg (sort of)
    > and might help you see what was intended.


    Rather than installing an old browser/suite, get the Composer by itself.

    http://nvu.com/

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 21, 2006
    #7
  8. mjones

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    mjones wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I've inherited someone else's html mess and I'm wondering if anyone
    > has an idea how to make the task simpler. The screen is messed up
    > and a client has asked me to fix it.
    >
    > The indents have not been included (or when they are you can't trust
    > them). I think many people have hacked away at the file over time.
    >
    > There are:
    > - 20 tables
    > - 32 tr's
    > - 52 td's
    > - five include files that call each other (not all one after the
    > other)
    > - 43 images (some background)
    >
    > I'm bringing it into Word and inserting all the images so I can see
    > them and trying to set up the indents, but it's really tedious. Time
    > is money, but clients don't understand how difficult fixing a few
    > lines and boxes can be so you end up just being a nice person.


    If you just want to make the code readable before you get into doing
    anything else with it, try Tidy:
    http://tidy.sourceforge.net/
     
    Nik Coughlin, Mar 21, 2006
    #8
  9. mjones

    mjones Guest

    Thanks. I'll try it. And thanks to all who offered moral support.
    Much appreciated.
     
    mjones, Mar 21, 2006
    #9
  10. mjones wrote:

    > Hi,


    <snip>

    I would probably load it in a wysiwyg editor, just to try and get an idea of
    what it should look like.  I would then use tidy to clean up and the code.
    If it was still a confusing mess, I would do a complete rewrite. Ideally
    incorporating CSS, but if necessary sticking to the client's desires.

    <snip>

    > Time is money, but clients don't understand how difficult fixing a few
    > lines and boxes can be so you end up just being a nice person.


    This is where customer education comes in. At some point we all need to
    learn how to put our feet down and tell a client that the apparent trivial
    fix is really a two day job. If you elect to give them the hours in order
    to earn a client, still make sure they know how much time went into the
    job. I would include the amount of time on the invoice, with the hourly
    rate and the actual cost. I would also give them a credit of whatever I
    felt was appropriate.

    For example...

    I might tell them, that my normal rates are $60 per hour or $300 per 8 hour
    day. The task they want done is a two day job, so it would cost $600.
    Because they are a new client, I will give them my standard new client
    discount, and for this task, I will only charge them for 2 hours of my
    time, or $120. The invoice would show the 2 days at $300 per day, with a
    credit of $480 for a total bill of $120.

    In reality, I would lock them into a few months of work, at the discounted
    rates, until they have had a chance to see what I can do. I have lost a
    client by doing this. After I cleaned up the site, they went back to their
    previous and cheaper web site developer. A few months later, they called
    me again. The second time I told them that I didn't want them as a client.

    Carolyn
    --
    Carolyn Marenger
     
    Carolyn Marenger, Mar 21, 2006
    #10
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