Help! Host is reluctant to install Python

Discussion in 'Python' started by Daniel Bickett, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
    his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
    is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:

    1. His major reason is optimization. He uses Zend's optimization of
    PHP as an example, and he has stated that python is rather resource
    consuming.
    2. Another one of his points is that he is unexperienced in installing
    python, and he would not know how to do it securely. By 'securely',
    I'm assuming he means disallowing a malicious (or ignorant) user from
    harming the server

    And, in light of point #1, I suggested that if there wasn't any
    optimization immediately available, he could just enable it for my
    account (thus lessening potential resource consumption at any given
    time), to which he retorted "Do /you/ know how to do that?", and I
    must say, he has me cornered ;-)

    I have no experience with this sort of thing, so I'm asking a little
    assistance in the direction of any documents or websites (or what have
    you) I could show him in order to answer some of these questions, or
    perhaps even some unspoken ones -- anything worth noting. (all I'm
    really going to do is link him to this thread once it has accumulated
    any answers)

    Thank you all for your help :)

    Wishing-to-be-liberated-from-the-clutches-of-PHP-ly y'rs,
    Daniel Bickett
     
    Daniel Bickett, Jan 25, 2005
    #1
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  2. find a new host, if they can't handle simple tasks like this or simple
    security tasks like limiting permissions, how can you be sure anything
    else they do is secure or correct?
     
    fuzzylollipop, Jan 25, 2005
    #2
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  3. "Daniel Bickett" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
    > his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
    > is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:

    <snip>

    I'll second what you are already hearing.
    Find a new hosting service because the one you have now is not qualified.

    Thomas Bartkus
     
    Thomas Bartkus, Jan 25, 2005
    #3
  4. Daniel Bickett

    Jeff Shannon Guest

    Daniel Bickett wrote:

    > I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
    > his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
    > is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:
    >
    > 1. His major reason is optimization. He uses Zend's optimization of
    > PHP as an example, and he has stated that python is rather resource
    > consuming.


    This depends, as all things, on what's being done with it -- it's
    certainly possible to write resource-hogging Python apps, but it's
    possible to do that in any language. And I'm not aware of Python
    being particularly worse in this regard than any other web-scripting
    language. I suspect this translates to "I'm avoiding anything that I
    don't already know".

    > And, in light of point #1, I suggested that if there wasn't any
    > optimization immediately available, he could just enable it for my
    > account (thus lessening potential resource consumption at any given
    > time), to which he retorted "Do /you/ know how to do that?", and I
    > must say, he has me cornered ;-)


    I don't know how to do that offhand... but then, I don't expect people
    to pay me for web-hosting expertise. I would expect, from the little
    that I *do* know of Apache configuration, that it wouldn't be too
    difficult to allow Python CGIs to run out of only one specific
    directory, that being within your webspace.

    If you're paying for this service, then I'd agree with everyone else
    that you should be paying for a different service. There's plenty of
    webhosts around who *will* do Python. If this is a friend, then point
    him to the Python Success Stories (http://www.pythonology.com/success)
    and suggest that if there's that many Python web apps around, it can't
    be too horrible on resources/management, and that he shouldn't be so
    afraid to try something new...

    Jeff Shannon
    Technician/Programmer
    Credit International
     
    Jeff Shannon, Jan 26, 2005
    #4
  5. Daniel Bickett

    Guest

    Daniel Bickett <> writes:
    > I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
    > his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
    > is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:


    I'm surprised that you're getting such detailed answers from him.
    Usually, low-cost web hosts want to offer a one-size-fits-all package
    that requires minimal interaction with customers. If you're paying
    $10 a month for hosting and a host admin has to spend 1 hour sending
    you email, that probably wipes out at least 6 months of profits from
    you as a customer. If you want custom service you usually have to pay
    a lo tmore.

    > 1. His major reason is optimization. He uses Zend's optimization of
    > PHP as an example, and he has stated that python is rather resource
    > consuming.


    Maybe that's true, though if there's enough customer demand for Python
    anyway, the answer is to buy more equipment and pass the costs on.
    The real problem is there's not enough demand.

    > 2. Another one of his points is that he is unexperienced in installing
    > python, and he would not know how to do it securely. By 'securely',
    > I'm assuming he means disallowing a malicious (or ignorant) user from
    > harming the server


    That's a serious issue too, and "securely" means not just securing
    against the service's own customers, but also against outside attacks.
    I have no idea how carefully mod_python has been audited. I don't use
    it myself, though I do run some Python cgi's.

    > I have no experience with this sort of thing, so I'm asking a little
    > assistance in the direction of any documents or websites (or what have
    > you) I could show him in order to answer some of these questions, or
    > perhaps even some unspoken ones -- anything worth noting. (all I'm
    > really going to do is link him to this thread once it has accumulated
    > any answers)


    I think you should look into some type of virtual hosting that gives
    you more ability to install your own software. Typing "uml hosting"
    (UML is user-mode Linux) into Google finds a lot of such services. If
    you find one that you like, post it here, I'm interested in this myself.
     
    , Jan 26, 2005
    #5
  6. On ldomain wrote:
    > Daniel Bickett <> writes:
    > > I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
    > > his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
    > > is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:

    >
    > I'm surprised that you're getting such detailed answers from him.
    > Usually, low-cost web hosts want to offer a one-size-fits-all package
    > that requires minimal interaction with customers. If you're paying
    > $10 a month for hosting and a host admin has to spend 1 hour sending
    > you email, that probably wipes out at least 6 months of profits from
    > you as a customer. If you want custom service you usually have to pay
    > a lo tmore.


    I know him personally, which is part of my reluctance to ditch him
    entirely as most of you have suggested ;-) Suffice it to say I was
    able to gain access to a 2.2 installation that was already on the
    server, however for my intents and purposes I need a minimum of 2.3.
    Now I'm working on getting him to upgrade to 2.4 and install
    mod_python :)

    New quick question: As for the former, on the download page it states
    that the RPM distribution is sufficient for Fedora Core 3 *and
    similar*, and I'm curious to know if that applies to Red Had
    Enterprise as well. Thank you all for your answers and your time.

    P.S. As for your pricing question, I only pay $20 a year. His services
    are very affordable. You can see them all at the following link:
    http://www.snorland.com/webhosting/

    --
    Daniel Bickett

    http://heureusement.org/
     
    Daniel Bickett, Jan 26, 2005
    #6
  7. Daniel Bickett

    Ian Guest

    On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:40:39 GMT, ldomain wrote:


    ....
    >I think you should look into some type of virtual hosting that gives
    >you more ability to install your own software. Typing "uml hosting"
    >(UML is user-mode Linux) into Google finds a lot of such services. If
    >you find one that you like, post it here, I'm interested in this myself.


    I'm very happy with uml from tummy.com for 25 USD/month, with good
    support by email for configuring mod_python in my case. They are also
    a Pycon sponsor.

    Ian
     
    Ian, Jan 30, 2005
    #7
  8. Daniel Bickett

    Guest

    Based on discusses with these guys, who know LAMP, python, ruby inside
    and out, and support it well:

    http://textdrive.com/

    I'm guessing you'd have a hard time finding mod_python / apache hosting
    unless you get a dedicated server. It's pretty labor-intensive setup
    and admin-wise. linux shell / python / SSH shdn't be a big deal, tho.
     
    , Jan 31, 2005
    #8
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