how to: fast & easy updates??

[Leslie]

After years of treating their web site like a necessary evil a local
(small town) radio station has decided to join the rest of the 21st
century and use the web for marketing, etc. The current site has been
ignored, basically, for a very long time.

I created the site that's currently online, but I'm not at all proud
of it. It looks like a real green-horn designed it and that's exactly
what I was when I first built the site. Anyway....

I've been asked to be involved in building the redesign that will
include daily (or more often) updates of local news. Here's my
problem, the new sales manager has talked to the 'guru' at their ISP
and has been told that the best way to add frequent updates is to use
FrontPage and import the info from a database, Excel or Access. The
sales manager was also told that if the 'news' page will be built with
FP then the entire site needs to be built with FP. True?????

When I was told tonight about the 'necessity' of using FP I was
tempted to back away from the entire project, but decided to give it
some thought. I really know nothing about FP, other than I DON'T want
to use it. After mulling it over a bit I've got a few questions:

1. Would the code produced by importing info from a database
(Excel/Access to FP) be specific to IE? If yes, what happens if
viewed in any other browser?

2. If FP was used to build the 'news' page why in the world would FP
"have" to be used for the rest of the site?

I was hit kind of cold with the FP info and my reply that it produces
invalid code seemed to fall on deaf ears. What's my best argument,
with people who know nothing about building web pages, about FP not
producing cross-browser compatible code?

I honestly can't see how typing info into a database would be any
easier than typing info into a web page that's basically a template,
deleting yesterday's text with today's and then uploading it. Maybe
I'll think of something as I drift off to sleep tonight, but any
comments and/or suggestions from the readers of this ng would be very
much appreciated.

Thanks,

Leslie

 

[brucie]

When I was told tonight about the 'necessity' of using FP I was
tempted to back away from the entire project,

a very good idea! i highly recommend it.

but decided to give it some thought.

theres nothing to think about. you haven't even started and already
you're having to deal with "but my friend said..." syndrome. if their
friend is so [rude word] good, let them do it.

I honestly can't see how typing info into a database would be any
easier than typing info into a web page that's basically a template,
deleting yesterday's text with today's and then uploading it.

i believe a db would be better. what if someone wants to read a story
from a week ago or just yesterday? if the news person that writes the
story sticks it into a db you can suck it back out and manipulate it
however you want.

 

[Leslie]

When I was told tonight about the 'necessity' of using FP I was
tempted to back away from the entire project,

a very good idea! i highly recommend it.

but decided to give it some thought.

theres nothing to think about. you haven't even started and already
you're having to deal with "but my friend said..." syndrome. if their
friend is so [rude word] good, let them do it.

No, we haven't started yet, but that's the point. The guys at the
radio station are exploring their options, and this other guy is a
well respected computer geek who just happens to have his head up his
butt when it comes to web page creation. (You want a top of the line,
state of the art network built? He's your guy. You have software
conflicts you need fixed yesterday? He's your guy. You need a web
site created? He's NOT your guy.)

My concern is convincing the radio people that just because Mr. Guru
can build a wizz-bang computer from a box of tooth picks *doesn't*
mean he knows how to build a web site that will validate.

I really don't want to lose the opportunity to be part of their 'new'
site. Down the road it will mean some extra cash in my pocket, but
most important, it will be a needed addition to my very slowly growing
portfolio of web sites. To be part of what looks to be a high profile
site in this little midwestern USA town is no small feat.

i believe a db would be better. what if someone wants to read a story
from a week ago or just yesterday? if the news person that writes the
story sticks it into a db you can suck it back out and manipulate it
however you want.

At this point I know nothing about incorporating a db into a web page,
but I'd like to learn. Can you point me to a tutorial or site that
will give me help - help that doesn't include using FP? I need enough
info so that at our next meeting my contribution is more persuasive
than "FrontPage sucks."

Thank you!!

Leslie

There's nothing to the statement that "It's all FP or nothing." is
there??

 

[Toby A Inkster]

At this point I know nothing about incorporating a db into a web page,
but I'd like to learn. Can you point me to a tutorial or site that
will give me help - help that doesn't include using FP?

Look into Linux-Apache-MySQL/PostgreSQL-Perl/PHP combinations. They are
much cheaper and more flexible as a server platform. They should also
handle all your database needs.

 

[brucie]

At this point I know nothing about incorporating a db into a web page,

its very easy

but I'd like to learn.

1. PHP for the World Wide Web Visual Quickstart Guide
2. PHP Advanced for the World Wide Web: Visual QuickPro Guide
3. MySQL: Visual QuickStart Guide
4. PHP and MySQL for Dynamic Web Sites: Visual QuickPro Guide

all by larry ullman from peachpit press. http://www.peachpit.com/

Build Your Own Database Driven Website Using PHP & MySQL
http://www.sitepoint.com/books/phpmysql1/

I need enough info so that at our next meeting my contribution is more
persuasive than "FrontPage sucks."

its easier to answer why frontpage doesn't suck. it allows people who
due to various reasons have no clue to easily throw something together
so they can add their voice to the internet, to add their little bit
to its wealth. this is a good thing, everyone regardless of ability
*must* be able to make a contribution if they wish. if FP allows them
to do it then any other problems FP may have or cause simply don't
matter.

but that doesn't change the fact that FP is simply Bad Evil Shit[tm].

 

[Al]

Hi:

The only people who seem to like FP are people who can't code in HTML. Maybe
the "guru" only knows how to use FP. NO you don't need FP to use a database.
You don't even need a database server (MYSQL, SQL, etc.) to make a database
driven web site. Databases made with Perl work fine for low traffic sites
like you are talking about. Before someone says that databases made with
Perl are flat; there are relational Perl databases as well.
The reason they want a database driven web site is because they are easy to
update if made right. You just fill in a form with text click a button and
your HTML is updated. No HTML (or FP) code is needed to be changed. The same
goes for adding photos. Also as one person said, a visitor can look up old
information using dates, keywords etc. when you have a database. If you need
to hire someone to take you HTML pages and make them database driven drop me
an e-mail at: (e-mail address removed) put "database driven" in the subject
line.

Al

 

[Matthias Gutfeldt]

I was hit kind of cold with the FP info and my reply that it produces
invalid code seemed to fall on deaf ears. What's my best argument,
with people who know nothing about building web pages, about FP not
producing cross-browser compatible code?

Hmm. Frontpage is quite horrible from a professional point of view, but
nevertheless it's very efficient for non-coders that want to build a
website. However, your client doesn't want to build a site. He simply
wants to *maintain* one or two pages on the site that *you* built for
him. That's a big difference. You build the site with your tools, and
then provide them with a newbie-friendly tool for maintenance.

In my experience Macromedia Contribute is quite good for small sites.
But if they really just want to add news to the news page, even
Contribute is overkill; all they need is one single form and a bit of
server-side processing to update that News page - a tiny mini CMS
application.

I honestly can't see how typing info into a database would be any
easier than typing info into a web page that's basically a template,
deleting yesterday's text with today's and then uploading it. Maybe
I'll think of something as I drift off to sleep tonight, but any
comments and/or suggestions from the readers of this ng would be very
much appreciated.

It depends on the content. If it's simple text content that will always
have the same structure, as news usually have, then filling out a form
is both faster and easier for the author, because he doesn't have to
think about formatting. If you dont' want to write such a mini-CMS
yourself, you could check out the available blog software, or get one of
the scripts available at e.g. hotscripts.com.


Matthias

 

[Adrienne]

At this point I know nothing about incorporating a db into a web page,
but I'd like to learn. Can you point me to a tutorial or site that
will give me help - help that doesn't include using FP? I need enough
info so that at our next meeting my contribution is more persuasive
than "FrontPage sucks."

Thank you!!

Since they are advocating FP, it may be running on a Windows box, in which
case, you would have access to ASP, MS Access and (if you're lucky) MS-
SQL.

There are some good beginner tutorials at http://www.w3schools (Learn ASP
and Learn SQL) and you should also look into http://www.asp-help.com .

Not that I use it, but if you really want to scare them, tell them you
require MS Interdev (FrontPage's bigger, badder, expensive, server side
brother).

 

[Leslie]

I honestly can't see how typing info into a database would be any
easier than typing info into a web page that's basically a template,
deleting yesterday's text with today's and then uploading it. Maybe
I'll think of something as I drift off to sleep tonight, but any
comments and/or suggestions from the readers of this ng would be very
much appreciated.

Thanks,

Leslie

A big "thank you" to everyone who took the time to offer help and
suggestions. I've got a lot to learn and right now my head is
swimming, but I'll get there.

One bit of really good news today.... had a meeting with my biggest
client - not the radio station. I was presented with a project that
will take months to complete - yippee!! income security!! I'm going
to create a new section of the web site and post hundreds of pages
I'll convert from Word docs to Adobe .pdf files. The printed Word
docs currently fill four 3" ring binders. I'm happy!

Thanks again for the help, no doubt I'll be back in the future with
more questions.

Leslie