Javascript and Microsoft Windows

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by Peter Olcott, Aug 13, 2006.

  1. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows controls,
    or does it build them from scratch like Java?
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. JRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1.51@dukeread06>, dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
    10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Peter Olcott
    <> posted :
    >Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows controls,
    >or does it build them from scratch like Java?


    No.

    Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.

    Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
    by other parts of the system.

    --
    © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Delphi 3 Turnpike 4 ©
    <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links;
    <URL:http://www.bancoems.com/CompLangPascalDelphiMisc-MiniFAQ.htm> clpdmFAQ;
    <URL:http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html> news:borland.* Guidelines
     
    Dr John Stockton, Aug 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "Dr John Stockton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > JRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1.51@dukeread06>, dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
    > 10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Peter Olcott
    > <> posted :
    >>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
    >>controls,
    >>or does it build them from scratch like Java?

    >
    > No.
    >
    > Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.
    >
    > Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
    > by other parts of the system.
    >

    From what I remember, JavaScript can place a button on the screen. Is this
    correct, and are you then saying that on the MS Windows platform, this would be
    internally represented as an MS Windows Button?

    > --
    > © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Delphi 3 Turnpike 4 ©
    > <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links;
    > <URL:http://www.bancoems.com/CompLangPascalDelphiMisc-MiniFAQ.htm> clpdmFAQ;
    > <URL:http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html> news:borland.* Guidelines
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Peter Olcott

    RobG Guest

    Peter Olcott wrote:
    > "Dr John Stockton" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > JRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1.51@dukeread06>, dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
    > > 10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Peter Olcott
    > > <> posted :
    > >>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
    > >>controls,
    > >>or does it build them from scratch like Java?

    > >
    > > No.
    > >
    > > Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.
    > >
    > > Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
    > > by other parts of the system.
    > >

    > From what I remember, JavaScript can place a button on the screen. Is this


    The difference between the core ECMAScript (JavaScript) language, its
    built-in objects and those provided by a host environment are explained
    here:

    <URL: http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ2_6 >


    > correct, and are you then saying that on the MS Windows platform, this would be
    > internally represented as an MS Windows Button?


    "Internally"? The ECMAScript specification does not detail how things
    should be implemented, it just descibes the language itself.

    "[ECMAScript] is a programming language that is used to manipulate,
    customise, and automate the facilities of an existing system."

    ECMAScript Language Specification section 4.

    The host environment provides objects that have properties and methods,
    JavaScript can be used to manipulate those objects to the extent
    allowed by the host.

    Most browsers provide a scriptable document object model (DOM) that
    allows a script to create DOM objects (buttons, text inputs,
    paragraphs, etc.) that can be manipulated using standard W3C properties
    and methods as well as proprietary ones provided by the particular
    browser.

    The "button" that a host environment makes available in a DOM may be
    different to the one that it provides to it's own development
    environment. If I am running Firefox on Windows and use JavaScript to
    create a button in a page, in what sense is that a "Windows button"?
    If I use OmniWeb on Mac OS X and run the same script, will I get a "Mac
    OS X button"?

    Why does it matter? JavaScript use is not limited to browsers, nor
    must it be used with a UI. All it needs is a scriptable host
    environment.


    --
    Rob
     
    RobG, Aug 14, 2006
    #4
  5. "Peter Olcott" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:QGHDg.3811$uW1.51@dukeread06...
    > Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft
    > Windows controls, or does it build them from scratch like Java?



    It depends on the browser and version you use. Some place a real Win32
    window with button class on the page, others just place an image that
    "looks" like the win32 button. Others just place a grey rectable with
    text as a button.
    You should not care, since in JS you can't access more than just "a
    button" - no matter what the browser made of it.
     
    Gernot Frisch, Aug 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "RobG" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Peter Olcott wrote:
    >> "Dr John Stockton" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > JRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1.51@dukeread06>, dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
    >> > 10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Peter Olcott
    >> > <> posted :
    >> >>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
    >> >>controls,
    >> >>or does it build them from scratch like Java?
    >> >
    >> > No.
    >> >
    >> > Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.
    >> >
    >> > Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
    >> > by other parts of the system.
    >> >

    >> From what I remember, JavaScript can place a button on the screen. Is this

    >
    > The difference between the core ECMAScript (JavaScript) language, its
    > built-in objects and those provided by a host environment are explained
    > here:
    >
    > <URL: http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ2_6 >
    >
    >
    >> correct, and are you then saying that on the MS Windows platform, this would
    >> be
    >> internally represented as an MS Windows Button?

    >
    > "Internally"? The ECMAScript specification does not detail how things
    > should be implemented, it just descibes the language itself.
    >
    > "[ECMAScript] is a programming language that is used to manipulate,
    > customise, and automate the facilities of an existing system."
    >
    > ECMAScript Language Specification section 4.
    >
    > The host environment provides objects that have properties and methods,
    > JavaScript can be used to manipulate those objects to the extent
    > allowed by the host.
    >
    > Most browsers provide a scriptable document object model (DOM) that
    > allows a script to create DOM objects (buttons, text inputs,
    > paragraphs, etc.) that can be manipulated using standard W3C properties
    > and methods as well as proprietary ones provided by the particular
    > browser.
    >
    > The "button" that a host environment makes available in a DOM may be
    > different to the one that it provides to it's own development
    > environment. If I am running Firefox on Windows and use JavaScript to
    > create a button in a page, in what sense is that a "Windows button"?
    > If I use OmniWeb on Mac OS X and run the same script, will I get a "Mac
    > OS X button"?
    >
    > Why does it matter? JavaScript use is not limited to browsers, nor
    > must it be used with a UI. All it needs is a scriptable host
    > environment.


    It matters to my specific task at hand. I am estimating the possible ways that a
    competitor could achieve the same functionality as my patented invention without
    violating my patent. For this reason I need to know the extent to which
    graphical user interface controls are actually implemented in ways other than
    using native Win32 objects on the Win32 platform. Java Swing was one specific
    example of this.

    >
    >
    > --
    > Rob
    >
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 14, 2006
    #6
  7. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "Gernot Frisch" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Peter Olcott" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:QGHDg.3811$uW1.51@dukeread06...
    >> Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
    >> controls, or does it build them from scratch like Java?

    >
    >
    > It depends on the browser and version you use. Some place a real Win32 window
    > with button class on the page, others just place an image that "looks" like
    > the win32 button. Others just place a grey rectable with text as a button.
    > You should not care, since in JS you can't access more than just "a button" -
    > no matter what the browser made of it.
    >


    I care for reasons stated in my prior response. I need to know this.
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Peter Olcott

    The Magpie Guest

    Peter Olcott wrote:
    >
    > It matters to my specific task at hand. I am estimating the possible ways that a
    > competitor could achieve the same functionality as my patented invention without
    > violating my patent. For this reason I need to know the extent to which
    > graphical user interface controls are actually implemented in ways other than
    > using native Win32 objects on the Win32 platform. Java Swing was one specific
    > example of this.
    >

    A patent (limited though they are anyway) applies to an *invention* and
    not to an *implementation*. If you have invented something then the GUI
    you use to do it is irrelevant. Frankly, you should remember that the
    entire patent is mostly irrelevant anyway, since software cannot be
    patented in most of the world and most countries will simply ignore your
    patent anyway.
     
    The Magpie, Aug 15, 2006
    #8
  9. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "The Magpie" <> wrote in message
    news:ebs6me$gs0$2$...
    > Peter Olcott wrote:
    >>
    >> It matters to my specific task at hand. I am estimating the possible ways
    >> that a
    >> competitor could achieve the same functionality as my patented invention
    >> without
    >> violating my patent. For this reason I need to know the extent to which
    >> graphical user interface controls are actually implemented in ways other than
    >> using native Win32 objects on the Win32 platform. Java Swing was one specific
    >> example of this.
    >>

    > A patent (limited though they are anyway) applies to an *invention* and
    > not to an *implementation*. If you have invented something then the GUI
    > you use to do it is irrelevant. Frankly, you should remember that the
    > entire patent is mostly irrelevant anyway, since software cannot be
    > patented in most of the world and most countries will simply ignore your
    > patent anyway.


    The United States represents about half of the world software market, so that
    patent has good coverage, in half the world. The rest of the world must still
    legally respect the copyright. My original question can not be rephrased. What I
    really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another program to
    determine the exact location and current state of any graphical user interface
    controls. Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 15, 2006
    #9
  10. Peter Olcott wrote:
    <snip>
    > ... . My original question can not be rephrased.


    That would be a pity as your original question did not make sense in
    javascript terms (javascript has no 'controls', instead relying on a
    host to provide that type of facility). But It has been answered
    anyway: browser hosts use Windows native input elements, their own
    internal input elements and even Java Swing input elements (in the case
    of IceBrowser at least).

    > What I really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another
    > program


    What is 'another program'?

    > to determine the exact location


    Javascript executing in browser environments can determine the exact
    pixel position (screen/ within the window and on the HTML page) of
    elements being displayed in an HTML document that it is scripting
    whenever the browser eposes sufficient information for that
    determination to be possible (which is often, but not universally, the
    case).

    > and current state of any graphical user interface controls.


    What do you consider the 'state' of a graphical user Interface control?
    Brower hosts expose properties of controls/elements to scripting and
    the values of those properties are normal candidates to be considered
    the 'state' of the control/element.

    > Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.


    AJAX is completely irrelevant to the issue.

    Richard.
     
    Richard Cornford, Aug 15, 2006
    #10
  11. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "Richard Cornford" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Peter Olcott wrote:
    > <snip>
    >> ... . My original question can not be rephrased.

    >
    > That would be a pity as your original question did not make sense in
    > javascript terms (javascript has no 'controls', instead relying on a
    > host to provide that type of facility). But It has been answered
    > anyway: browser hosts use Windows native input elements, their own
    > internal input elements and even Java Swing input elements (in the case
    > of IceBrowser at least).
    >
    >> What I really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another
    >> program

    >
    > What is 'another program'?


    If we assume that there is a JavaScript program running in the web-browser, the
    other program is any program besides this program. In other words I need a way
    to determine the exact location and current state of any graphical user
    interface controls that are displayed in the web-browser, and this way must be
    able to provide this information to a different program beside the one running
    in the web-browser.


    >
    >> to determine the exact location

    >
    > Javascript executing in browser environments can determine the exact
    > pixel position (screen/ within the window and on the HTML page) of
    > elements being displayed in an HTML document that it is scripting
    > whenever the browser eposes sufficient information for that
    > determination to be possible (which is often, but not universally, the
    > case).
    >
    >> and current state of any graphical user interface controls.

    >
    > What do you consider the 'state' of a graphical user Interface control?


    Is the checkbox currently checked or unchecked ("Current state" is a generic
    term of the art of computer science).

    > Brower hosts expose properties of controls/elements to scripting and
    > the values of those properties are normal candidates to be considered
    > the 'state' of the control/element.


    Great exactly how do they expose this, an API call?

    >
    >> Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.

    >
    > AJAX is completely irrelevant to the issue.


    The way that it was explained is that Ajax is a hodge podge conglomeration of
    JavaScript, XML and some other things, and that these exposed properties are
    exposed in an XML format.

    >
    > Richard.
    >
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 15, 2006
    #11
  12. Peter Olcott

    Matt Kruse Guest

    Peter Olcott wrote:
    > My original question
    > can not be rephrased. What I really need to know is exactly how
    > difficult it is for another program to determine the exact location
    > and current state of any graphical user interface controls. Someone
    > told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.


    The text above makes it obvious that you completely lack a basic level of
    understanding required to even ask an intelligent question on the matter.

    Equate it to: "I'm trying to figure out how easy it is to change the stapler
    in my car using a tennis ball. I heard that it is easy using a cricket
    ball." Your terms and words are so disconnected as to be meaningless.

    Without a more detailed explaination of exactly what your patent is, what
    kind of answer you are looking for, and how exactly it relates to
    javascript, no one will be able to help you.

    --
    Matt Kruse
    http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com
    http://www.AjaxToolbox.com
     
    Matt Kruse, Aug 15, 2006
    #12
  13. Peter Olcott

    Sym Guest

    Maybe the answer is, yes, most people on this forum could write a
    program (either in javascript or a compiled language like c++) that
    could analyse the state of a browser that contains your application and
    be able to determine what controls are present, their state, their
    content, their position etc.



    rgds
    Sym
     
    Sym, Aug 15, 2006
    #13
  14. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "Matt Kruse" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Peter Olcott wrote:
    >> My original question
    >> can not be rephrased. What I really need to know is exactly how
    >> difficult it is for another program to determine the exact location
    >> and current state of any graphical user interface controls. Someone
    >> told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.

    >
    > The text above makes it obvious that you completely lack a basic level of
    > understanding required to even ask an intelligent question on the matter.
    >
    > Equate it to: "I'm trying to figure out how easy it is to change the stapler
    > in my car using a tennis ball. I heard that it is easy using a cricket ball."
    > Your terms and words are so disconnected as to be meaningless.
    >
    > Without a more detailed explaination of exactly what your patent is, what kind
    > of answer you are looking for, and how exactly it relates to javascript, no
    > one will be able to help you.
    >
    > --
    > Matt Kruse
    > http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com
    > http://www.AjaxToolbox.com
    >
    >


    I have almost no understanding of JavaScript.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=7046848.PN.&OS=PN/7046848&RS=PN/7046848

    This technology enables a truly universal GUI scripting language to be created.
    I am attempting to estimate how difficult it would be to approximate the
    functional benefits of my technology using alternative means.
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 15, 2006
    #14
  15. Peter Olcott wrote:
    > Richard Cornford wrote:
    >> Peter Olcott wrote:

    <snip>
    >>> What I really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another
    >>> program

    >>
    >> What is 'another program'?

    >
    > If we assume that there is a JavaScript program running in the web-browser,


    OK.

    > the other program is any program besides this program.


    Narrow it down, why don't you?

    > In other words I need a way to determine the exact location and
    > current state of any graphical user interface controls that are
    > displayed in the web-browser, and this way must be able to provide
    > this information to a different program beside the one running
    > in the web-browser.


    Where a browser (combined with the context ) makes the determination of
    the location of elements possible the results of such calculations may
    be sent to a web server (which qualifies as your 'other program') in
    various ways.

    >>> to determine the exact location

    >>
    >> Javascript executing in browser environments can determine the exact
    >> pixel position (screen/ within the window and on the HTML page) of
    >> elements being displayed in an HTML document that it is scripting
    >> whenever the browser eposes sufficient information for that
    >> determination to be possible (which is often, but not universally, the
    >> case).
    >>
    >>> and current state of any graphical user interface controls.

    >>
    >> What do you consider the 'state' of a graphical user Interface
    >> control?

    >
    > Is the checkbox currently checked or unchecked


    The W3C HTML DOM defined - HTMLInputElement - interface has a boolean -
    checked - proprety, that represents a formalization of a traditional
    feature of representations of input elements exposed to scripting.

    > ("Current state" is a generic
    > term of the art of computer science).


    And yet when asked for clarification you are only actually interested
    in one aspect of the element's state.

    >> Brower hosts expose properties of controls/elements to scripting and
    >> the values of those properties are normal candidates to be considered
    >> the 'state' of the control/element.

    >
    > Great exactly how do they expose this, an API call?


    As properties of the exposed representations of the elements.

    > >
    > >> Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.

    > >
    > > AJAX is completely irrelevant to the issue.

    >
    > The way that it was explained is that Ajax is a hodge podge conglomeration
    > of JavaScript, XML and some other things, and that these exposed
    > properties are exposed in an XML format.


    Yes, you can stop taking web development advice from whoever it was who
    said that.

    Richard.
     
    Richard Cornford, Aug 15, 2006
    #15
  16. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "Richard Cornford" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Peter Olcott wrote:
    >> Richard Cornford wrote:
    >>> Peter Olcott wrote:

    > <snip>
    >>>> What I really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another
    >>>> program
    >>>
    >>> What is 'another program'?

    >>
    >> If we assume that there is a JavaScript program running in the web-browser,

    >
    > OK.
    >
    >> the other program is any program besides this program.

    >
    > Narrow it down, why don't you?


    My goal is to find out the difficulties in deriving a truly universal scripting
    language. In other words a scripting language capable of controlling literally
    any program of any kind what-so-ever that will run on modern operating systems
    such as MS Windows. If I narrow down the question, then I get an answer that
    does not help. My purpose of coming to this forum is to determine the
    difficulties and challenges in deriving a scripting language capable of
    controlling any JavaScript program, yet even this purpose is only a tiny subset
    of my primary goal.

    >
    >> In other words I need a way to determine the exact location and
    >> current state of any graphical user interface controls that are
    >> displayed in the web-browser, and this way must be able to provide
    >> this information to a different program beside the one running
    >> in the web-browser.

    >
    > Where a browser (combined with the context ) makes the determination of
    > the location of elements possible the results of such calculations may
    > be sent to a web server (which qualifies as your 'other program') in
    > various ways.


    Yes, how would it do this, and what do you mean by context?

    >
    >>>> to determine the exact location
    >>>
    >>> Javascript executing in browser environments can determine the exact
    >>> pixel position (screen/ within the window and on the HTML page) of
    >>> elements being displayed in an HTML document that it is scripting
    >>> whenever the browser eposes sufficient information for that
    >>> determination to be possible (which is often, but not universally, the
    >>> case).
    >>>
    >>>> and current state of any graphical user interface controls.
    >>>
    >>> What do you consider the 'state' of a graphical user Interface
    >>> control?

    >>
    >> Is the checkbox currently checked or unchecked

    >
    > The W3C HTML DOM defined - HTMLInputElement - interface has a boolean -
    > checked - proprety, that represents a formalization of a traditional
    > feature of representations of input elements exposed to scripting.


    I don't know what W3C stands for, I assum that DOM stands for document object
    model.

    >
    >> ("Current state" is a generic
    >> term of the art of computer science).

    >
    > And yet when asked for clarification you are only actually interested
    > in one aspect of the element's state.


    The most salient aspect of a graphical user control element's current state
    would be its GUI control state. Its color could be construed as a part of the
    state of the element, yet generally an inessential part of this state. Whether
    or not a checkbox is checked, whether or not an edit box has text, and the value
    of this text if present, all those things that directly pertain to this items
    role as a GUI control element, also needed are its exact location, and the exact
    location of its constituent parts, if any.

    >
    >>> Brower hosts expose properties of controls/elements to scripting and
    >>> the values of those properties are normal candidates to be considered
    >>> the 'state' of the control/element.

    >>
    >> Great exactly how do they expose this, an API call?

    >
    > As properties of the exposed representations of the elements.


    What is the API call to get to these? (or where could I find out the name of
    this API call?)

    >
    >> >
    >> >> Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
    >> >
    >> > AJAX is completely irrelevant to the issue.

    >>
    >> The way that it was explained is that Ajax is a hodge podge conglomeration
    >> of JavaScript, XML and some other things, and that these exposed
    >> properties are exposed in an XML format.

    >
    > Yes, you can stop taking web development advice from whoever it was who
    > said that.
    >
    > Richard.
    >
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 15, 2006
    #16
  17. Peter Olcott

    Matt Kruse Guest

    Peter Olcott wrote:
    > My goal is to find out the difficulties in deriving a truly universal
    > scripting language. In other words a scripting language capable of
    > controlling literally any program of any kind what-so-ever that will
    > run on modern operating systems such as MS Windows.


    I suspect that your goal is completely unrealistic, and has nothing to do
    with Javascript. You might get clarity by first really understanding what
    you want to accomplish and expressing that in a well-worded summary. The
    exercise of doing so might make you realize why your questions appear to be
    completely irrelevant.

    --
    Matt Kruse
    http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com
    http://www.AjaxToolbox.com
     
    Matt Kruse, Aug 15, 2006
    #17
  18. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "Matt Kruse" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Peter Olcott wrote:
    >> My goal is to find out the difficulties in deriving a truly universal
    >> scripting language. In other words a scripting language capable of
    >> controlling literally any program of any kind what-so-ever that will
    >> run on modern operating systems such as MS Windows.

    >
    > I suspect that your goal is completely unrealistic, and has nothing to do with
    > Javascript. You might get clarity by first really understanding what you want
    > to accomplish and expressing that in a well-worded summary. The exercise of
    > doing so might make you realize why your questions appear to be completely
    > irrelevant.


    I have already accomplished this goal with my patented technology:
    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=7046848.PN.&OS=PN/7046848&RS=PN/7046848

    My purpose here is to see how difficult it would be for others to achieve this
    same functional benefit.


    >
    > --
    > Matt Kruse
    > http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com
    > http://www.AjaxToolbox.com
    >
    >
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 15, 2006
    #18
  19. "Peter Olcott" <> writes:

    > My goal is to find out the difficulties in deriving a truly
    > universal scripting language. In other words a scripting language
    > capable of controlling literally any program of any kind
    > what-so-ever that will run on modern operating systems such as MS
    > Windows.


    It seems you are concentrating on the ability to recognize and
    manipulate graphical user interfaces. If you have that ability in a
    library, the language, scripting or not, around it isn't as important.

    > If I narrow down the question, then I get an answer that does not
    > help. My purpose of coming to this forum is to determine the
    > difficulties and challenges in deriving a scripting language capable
    > of controlling any JavaScript program, yet even this purpose is only
    > a tiny subset of my primary goal.


    The problem with the question is that there really aren't any
    "JavaScript programs". JavaScript is itself a scripting language with
    no graphical interface or even I/O features. It only really comes to
    life when it's combined with a running environment that provides these
    features, be it a page in a web browser, a server-side page on a web
    server or running inside the windows scripting host.

    So you can't say anything consistent about "JavaScript programs".
    > I don't know what W3C stands for, I assum that DOM stands for
    > document object model.


    W3C: World Wide Web Consortium, the people who specifies, among other
    things, the HTML and DOM standards.
    DOM: Correct.

    [DOM element properties]
    > What is the API call to get to these? (or where could I find out the name of
    > this API call?)

    <URL:http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-HTML/>

    /L
    --
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen -
    DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
    'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
     
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen, Aug 16, 2006
    #19
  20. Peter Olcott

    Peter Olcott Guest

    "Lasse Reichstein Nielsen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Peter Olcott" <> writes:
    >
    >> My goal is to find out the difficulties in deriving a truly
    >> universal scripting language. In other words a scripting language
    >> capable of controlling literally any program of any kind
    >> what-so-ever that will run on modern operating systems such as MS
    >> Windows.

    >
    > It seems you are concentrating on the ability to recognize and
    > manipulate graphical user interfaces. If you have that ability in a
    > library, the language, scripting or not, around it isn't as important.
    >


    According to members of the Java newsgroup Java Swing's light weight controls
    are one example on GUI controls that are fundamentally different than native
    controls. I want to see how many examples of this sort of thing I can find
    across everything that runs on the Win32 platform. This is the sort of thing
    that makes deriving the sort of library that you suggested difficult.

    >> If I narrow down the question, then I get an answer that does not
    >> help. My purpose of coming to this forum is to determine the
    >> difficulties and challenges in deriving a scripting language capable
    >> of controlling any JavaScript program, yet even this purpose is only
    >> a tiny subset of my primary goal.

    >
    > The problem with the question is that there really aren't any
    > "JavaScript programs". JavaScript is itself a scripting language with
    > no graphical interface or even I/O features. It only really comes to
    > life when it's combined with a running environment that provides these
    > features, be it a page in a web browser, a server-side page on a web
    > server or running inside the windows scripting host.
    >
    > So you can't say anything consistent about "JavaScript programs".
    >> I don't know what W3C stands for, I assum that DOM stands for
    >> document object model.

    >
    > W3C: World Wide Web Consortium, the people who specifies, among other
    > things, the HTML and DOM standards.
    > DOM: Correct.
    >
    > [DOM element properties]
    >> What is the API call to get to these? (or where could I find out the name of
    >> this API call?)

    > <URL:http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-HTML/>
    >
    > /L
    > --
    > Lasse Reichstein Nielsen -
    > DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
    > 'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
     
    Peter Olcott, Aug 16, 2006
    #20
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