Keeping Floats from Wrapping

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Phonedude, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    I have converted my volunteered website -- http://www.mclriverview.org --
    from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works fine
    in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal dimension.

    Is there any way to force a horizontal scrollbar on the browser so that the
    page is still displayed properly?

    Or any way to prevent the wrap? I have Googled and Googled, but I can't
    find any good answers. (A good answer is one I understand, one that makes
    sense, and, ultimately, one that works.)

    Thanks,

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 29, 2008
    #1
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  2. Phonedude

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    "Phonedude" <> wrote in message
    news:g6lo75$uu1$...
    >I have converted my volunteered website -- http://www.mclriverview.org --
    >from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works fine
    >in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    >wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal dimension.
    >
    > Is there any way to force a horizontal scrollbar on the browser so that
    > the page is still displayed properly?
    >
    > Or any way to prevent the wrap? I have Googled and Googled, but I can't
    > find any good answers. (A good answer is one I understand, one that makes
    > sense, and, ultimately, one that works.)


    min-width + Google for IE6 workaround
    Nik Coughlin, Jul 29, 2008
    #2
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  3. Phonedude

    dorayme Guest

    In article <g6lo75$uu1$>, "Phonedude" <>
    wrote:

    > I have converted my volunteered website -- http://www.mclriverview.org --
    > from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works fine
    > in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    > wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal dimension.
    >
    > Is there any way to force a horizontal scrollbar on the browser so that the
    > page is still displayed properly?
    >
    > Or any way to prevent the wrap? I have Googled and Googled, but I can't
    > find any good answers. (A good answer is one I understand, one that makes
    > sense, and, ultimately, one that works.)
    >


    Perhaps you are fiddling with your mark up at the moment? But surely
    this is not what you want, here are two screenshots:

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/justPics/marinecorpnarrow.png>

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/justPics/marinecorpswide.png>

    (the latter taking up most of a high res 20" monitor).

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 29, 2008
    #3
  4. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <g6lo75$uu1$>, "Phonedude" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> I have converted my volunteered website -- http://www.mclriverview.org --
    >> from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works
    >> fine
    >> in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    >> wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal
    >> dimension.
    >>
    >> Is there any way to force a horizontal scrollbar on the browser so that
    >> the
    >> page is still displayed properly?
    >>
    >> Or any way to prevent the wrap? I have Googled and Googled, but I can't
    >> find any good answers. (A good answer is one I understand, one that makes
    >> sense, and, ultimately, one that works.)
    >>

    >
    > Perhaps you are fiddling with your mark up at the moment? But surely
    > this is not what you want, here are two screenshots:
    >
    > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/justPics/marinecorpnarrow.png>
    >
    > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/justPics/marinecorpswide.png>
    >
    > (the latter taking up most of a high res 20" monitor).
    >
    > --
    > dorayme]


    Yes -- you caught me fiddling. I "solved" the wrap problem by simply using
    a wrapper div with a set width large enough to hold the page. On larger
    clients, yours for example, it will be over on the left side, but should
    still be quite usable. I found the work around, and actually uinderstood
    it, but could not make the conditional expression work -- and I don't
    understand why not. It simply set the width to 980px if the client width
    got smaller than that and used "auto" if it were larger. I must have had a
    typo or something, but I checked and rechecked and rechecked and simply
    could not figure it out. Finally gave up and just set a width. This will
    be revisited at some time.

    What you caught me doing was redoing my style sheet. I thought it was ok,
    but when I put it up on the server and looked at it I saw the results you
    posted. I had to go find the problem and correct it. I didn't know you
    could put a * { } at the top of your sheet and put all the repetitive stuff
    in it, so I took some time and cleaned the sheet up.

    It is ok now, I think. Anyone who wants to have a look at
    http://www.mclriverview.org should feel free to provide me feedback. I
    could use the help and don't mind if you make extraneous comments as well.
    Even snideness is tolerated. :) All comments about layout, style, artistic
    merit (if any), technical nits, and such are certainly welcome.

    I volunteered to create and administer this site because I am a member of
    the league and want to help, but I also want to learn new skills and get up
    to date on HTML. I have been programming in various languages since 1972,
    but never professionally. I am thinking that building and managing basic
    websites might be a hobby that provides a little income on the side and
    maybe grow into something beyond a hobby. (Comments about this thought are
    welcome as well.)

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 29, 2008
    #4
  5. On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    > I have converted my volunteered website -- http://www.mclriverview.org --
    > from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works fine
    > in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    > wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal dimension.


    It doesn't work, even on a wide screen:
    <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/mclriver.jpg>

    > Is there any way to force a horizontal scrollbar on the browser so that the
    > page is still displayed properly?
    >
    > Or any way to prevent the wrap? I have Googled and Googled, but I can't
    > find any good answers. (A good answer is one I understand, one that makes
    > sense, and, ultimately, one that works.)



    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
    ===================================================================
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Jul 29, 2008
    #5
  6. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote in message
    news:a84b1$488f7663$cef88ba3$...
    > On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    >> I have converted my volunteered website -- http://www.mclriverview.org --
    >> from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works
    >> fine
    >> in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    >> wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal
    >> dimension.

    >
    > It doesn't work, even on a wide screen:
    > <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/mclriver.jpg>

    [snip]

    Wow. That's pretty messed up. What browser is that? Clearly I need to
    figure out what's going on there. It looks fine on IE6 at a screen setting
    of 1024 wide. The wrapper div is 980 px wide. I wonder if there's a site
    that will show how a page looks on different browsers or if I have to
    download them all for verifying my work.

    Thanks for pointing that out.

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 29, 2008
    #6
  7. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "Phonedude" <> wrote in message
    news:g6o0jh$lea$...
    >
    > "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote in message
    > news:a84b1$488f7663$cef88ba3$...
    >> On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    >>> I have converted my volunteered website --
    >>> http://www.mclriverview.org --
    >>> from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works
    >>> fine
    >>> in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    >>> wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal
    >>> dimension.

    >>
    >> It doesn't work, even on a wide screen:
    >> <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/mclriver.jpg>

    > [snip]
    >
    > Wow. That's pretty messed up. What browser is that? Clearly I need to
    > figure out what's going on there. It looks fine on IE6 at a screen
    > setting of 1024 wide. The wrapper div is 980 px wide. I wonder if
    > there's a site that will show how a page looks on different browsers or if
    > I have to download them all for verifying my work.
    >
    > Thanks for pointing that out.


    Nevermind -- I downloaded Firefox and see the problem just as in your jpg.
    All I need to do now is figure out what's up with the style sheet and html.
    Any hints?

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 29, 2008
    #7
  8. Phonedude

    Ari Heino Guest

    > All I need to do now is figure out what's up with the style sheet and html.
    > Any hints?


    Frankly I'd start from scratch. IMHO the page looks quite awful. Too
    much colors, borders, hr's, tables and pictures you could replace with
    text and the background image is not working either. Less is more.
    In css, * { margin: 0; } etc. is also a bad idea. Sure you get some
    unwanted mrgins set to zero but lose also many needed margins.

    --
    Ari
    Ari Heino, Jul 29, 2008
    #8
  9. Phonedude

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    "Phonedude" <> wrote in message
    news:g6o0jh$lea$...
    > I wonder if there's a site that will show how a page looks on different
    > browsers


    http://browsershots.org/
    Nik Coughlin, Jul 29, 2008
    #9
  10. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "Ari Heino" <> wrote in message
    news:g6o20v$1u5r$...
    >> All I need to do now is figure out what's up with the style sheet and
    >> html. Any hints?

    >
    > Frankly I'd start from scratch. IMHO the page looks quite awful. Too much
    > colors, borders, hr's, tables and pictures you could replace with text and
    > the background image is not working either. Less is more.
    > In css, * { margin: 0; } etc. is also a bad idea. Sure you get some
    > unwanted mrgins set to zero but lose also many needed margins.
    >
    > --
    > Ari


    I see the background fine in IE6 and Firefox. If you can't see it will you
    tell me what browser you're using please? Or is it that you don't like the
    way it repeats?
    There's only four colors on the page, not counting the links, the background
    and the two seals. Scarlet and gold (yellow) are a given on any page
    relating to USMC. And the dark green is reminiscent of the uniforms. The
    paler yellow background is quite readible, and I like it.

    Your input is appreciated though -- thanks.

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 30, 2008
    #10
  11. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "Phonedude" <> wrote in message
    news:g6o14q$nk0$...
    >
    > "Phonedude" <> wrote in message
    > news:g6o0jh$lea$...
    >>
    >> "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote in message
    >> news:a84b1$488f7663$cef88ba3$...
    >>> On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    >>>> I have converted my volunteered website --
    >>>> http://www.mclriverview.org --
    >>>> from table layout to divs and lists using floats for layout. It works
    >>>> fine
    >>>> in fullscreen, but as soon as you unmaximize the screen the items start
    >>>> wrapping, getting worse and worse as you squeeze the horizontal
    >>>> dimension.
    >>>
    >>> It doesn't work, even on a wide screen:
    >>> <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/mclriver.jpg>

    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> Wow. That's pretty messed up. What browser is that? Clearly I need to
    >> figure out what's going on there. It looks fine on IE6 at a screen
    >> setting of 1024 wide. The wrapper div is 980 px wide. I wonder if
    >> there's a site that will show how a page looks on different browsers or
    >> if I have to download them all for verifying my work.
    >>
    >> Thanks for pointing that out.

    >
    > Nevermind -- I downloaded Firefox and see the problem just as in your jpg.
    > All I need to do now is figure out what's up with the style sheet and
    > html. Any hints?
    >
    > Larry


    Well, I got Firefox and IE6 to look pretty much alike. On to the next
    hurdle.

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 30, 2008
    #11
  12. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "Nik Coughlin" <> wrote in message
    news:g6o2b4$tp8$...
    > "Phonedude" <> wrote in message
    > news:g6o0jh$lea$...
    >> I wonder if there's a site that will show how a page looks on different
    >> browsers

    >
    > http://browsershots.org/
    >


    A very nice (fantastic!) resource.

    Many thanks.

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 30, 2008
    #12
  13. On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    >>>>> I have converted my volunteered website --
    >>>>> http://www.mclriverview.org --

    ....
    > Well, I got Firefox and IE6 to look pretty much alike. On to the next
    > hurdle.


    Better, but still some problems.

    <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/mclriver2.jpg>


    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
    ===================================================================
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Jul 30, 2008
    #13
  14. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote in message
    news:637c5$488fa8d7$cef88ba3$...
    > On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    >>>>>> I have converted my volunteered website --
    >>>>>> http://www.mclriverview.org --

    > ...
    >> Well, I got Firefox and IE6 to look pretty much alike. On to the next
    >> hurdle.

    >
    > Better, but still some problems.
    >
    > <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/mclriver2.jpg>
    >
    >
    > --
    > Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
    > ===================================================================
    > Author:
    > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)


    Pretty bad looking -- what browser please? I used
    http://browsershots.org/http://www.mclriverview.org/ to check quite a few
    browsers and none had such serious problems as that. Give me a hint
    please -- by fixing things I learn to do better and I like that...

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 30, 2008
    #14
  15. On 2008-07-30, Phonedude wrote:
    >
    > "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote in message
    > news:637c5$488fa8d7$cef88ba3$...
    >> On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    >>>>>>> I have converted my volunteered website --
    >>>>>>> http://www.mclriverview.org --

    >> ...
    >>> Well, I got Firefox and IE6 to look pretty much alike. On to the next
    >>> hurdle.

    >>
    >> Better, but still some problems.
    >>

    >
    > Pretty bad looking -- what browser please?


    It's a matter of font size; the browser is irrelevant.

    > I used http://browsershots.org/http://www.mclriverview.org/ to check
    > quite a few browsers and none had such serious problems as that.
    > Give me a hint please -- by fixing things I learn to do better and I
    > like that...



    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
    ===================================================================
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Jul 30, 2008
    #15
  16. Phonedude

    dorayme Guest

    In article <g6o8nf$s16$>, "Phonedude" <>
    wrote:

    >> http://www.mclriverview.org/


    > input is appreciated


    I feel I have been neglecting you, soldier! Let me make up now. I am in
    a military mood. <g>

    Here are some things that you may find helpful, in no particular order.

    <div class="pagewrapper">
    <div><br></div>

    Don't do this latter line or this sort of thing. Bad drill! If you want
    a space above the first real content, put a margin on the element
    concerned, namely the very next one. Or, alternatively put a top-padding
    on .pagewrapper. Get into the habit of killing two things with one
    bullet. It is neater, it goes back to a principle enunciated by an
    English Franciscan friar from the 13th Century which basically says that
    less is more. It also separates your content from your presentation and
    keeps things more manageable for now and the future.

    Get rid of the W3C logos before actual publication because, for a start,
    few of your visitors will have a clue about their significance. And what
    is their significance? If you make any CSS or HTML errors, you run an
    unnecessary risk. Modesty is best. And besides, remember, less is more.
    In this case you save a complete bullet. Keep that rifle dry for when
    you really need it.

    Now, I turn to what is possibly just a personal thing of mine, please
    ignore it if you feel different. The background is too distracting. The
    eye cannot read the text without feeling there are too many soldiers and
    flags about. One judiciously placed instance of this famous icon would
    be altogether better imo. Plus it would not completely ruin your chances
    of a nice discount on a Toyota.

    Next, a structural point. Given the information you are displaying, it
    is not necessary to force your viewers to use horizontal scroll bars as
    many will have to. No one likes using horizontal scroll bars and
    especially when it seems unnecessary. What is necessary and unnecessary
    in this business? Imagine a table of many cells of information on one
    row. Here it is perfectly understandable that sometimes a user with a
    narrow browser window should have to scroll sideways. The information
    eing on one row means something and it would break the sense of it for
    it to fail to be so.

    But when you have three boxes of fairly independent bits of information
    there is no really good reason for them to be on one line. They might
    look nicer on one line. Fine! But they don't look anything if you can't
    see them all. So why not consider the aesthetics of the matter to be a
    handmaiden to function and usability and float the boxes so that they
    wrap if there is not enough width. Best of both worlds, all neat in a
    line if there is room. All visible or easily seen (with page down or
    scroll down keys and buttons if necessary).

    You float three divs with CSS:

    div {float: left}

    and assign some paddings and margins to suit. Ask if you want examples?

    The other thing is this, something you are possibly having trouble with.
    If you dimension your boxes in pixels, text can spill out of them if the
    text grows because the text can grow bigger than the boxes. So, if you
    do not want this to happen (and who does much?), at least give the boxes
    widths in em units rather than px. It is generally best not to assign
    heights at all but to let the content make the boxes grow height (as
    will happen naturally).

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 30, 2008
    #16
  17. Phonedude

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > ... when you have three boxes of fairly independent bits of information
    > there is no really good reason for them to be on one line. They might
    > look nicer on one line. Fine! But they don't look anything if you can't
    > see them all. So why not consider the aesthetics of the matter to be a
    > handmaiden to function and usability and float the boxes so that they
    > wrap if there is not enough width. Best of both worlds, all neat in a
    > line if there is room. All visible or easily seen (with page down or
    > scroll down keys and buttons if necessary).
    >
    > You float three divs with CSS:
    >
    > div {float: left}
    >
    > and assign some paddings and margins to suit. Ask if you want examples?


    I got worried about this of mine and took a closer look and I see you
    are floating things. So apologies for not noting this.

    But you are actually doing other things to constrain and fix width that
    I would recommend you don't do to spoil the wrapping functionality that
    is otherwise built into floats.

    ..pagewrapper{width:980px;min-width:980px;}

    and complicated things with your boxes and tables. I cannot look at it
    just now. Later maybe.

    Don't have that 'leadership' image as header, it is poor quality and
    quite unnecessary to be an image considering its straightforward look.
    Use simple html text and css:

    <h2>LEADERSHIP</h2> styled by something like:

    h2 {font-size: 170%; background: red; color: yellow;}

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 30, 2008
    #17
  18. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article
    > <>,
    > dorayme <> wrote:
    >
    >> ... when you have three boxes of fairly independent bits of information
    >> there is no really good reason for them to be on one line. They might
    >> look nicer on one line. Fine! But they don't look anything if you can't
    >> see them all. So why not consider the aesthetics of the matter to be a
    >> handmaiden to function and usability and float the boxes so that they
    >> wrap if there is not enough width. Best of both worlds, all neat in a
    >> line if there is room. All visible or easily seen (with page down or
    >> scroll down keys and buttons if necessary).
    >>
    >> You float three divs with CSS:
    >>
    >> div {float: left}
    >>
    >> and assign some paddings and margins to suit. Ask if you want examples?

    >
    > I got worried about this of mine and took a closer look and I see you
    > are floating things. So apologies for not noting this.
    >
    > But you are actually doing other things to constrain and fix width that
    > I would recommend you don't do to spoil the wrapping functionality that
    > is otherwise built into floats.
    >
    > .pagewrapper{width:980px;min-width:980px;}
    >
    > and complicated things with your boxes and tables. I cannot look at it
    > just now. Later maybe.
    >
    > Don't have that 'leadership' image as header, it is poor quality and
    > quite unnecessary to be an image considering its straightforward look.
    > Use simple html text and css:
    >
    > <h2>LEADERSHIP</h2> styled by something like:
    >
    > h2 {font-size: 170%; background: red; color: yellow;}
    >
    > --
    > dorayme


    Wow! Thanks for this very nice feedback. I appreciate your time and effort
    to post these two notes. I had already got rid of the BR at the top of the
    pagewrap dive using padding. After I thought about what I was doing I
    instinctively did what you suggested before you suggested it. Thanks for
    pointing it out though -- I think there's one or two other spots like that I
    need to look at.

    The strange width - min-width mess is the result of an effort I made to
    include a conditional expression which I simply could not make work. I gave
    up on it for a bit until I get up the mental strength to try again. A
    couple of hours of frustration is all I care to deal with at one sitting.
    That will be made better soon. The width is fixed because I am anal and
    want my boxes to appear side by side -- all three of them. The page isn't
    really that wide at 980px so unless you're using a small window you may have
    to scroll. I hear what you're saying, but the website is not intended for
    people who normally use multiple windows and almost everyone these days has
    a full screen min of 1024. Or am I out in left field? The idea of allowing
    those boxes (and the three images at the top) to wrap is one that doesn't
    feel right to me -- as I said, it may be a personality fault for me -- but I
    understand what you're saying. I will think about that some more.

    The background appears to be an issue -- you are the second to bring it up.
    I understand what you're saying and will think about how to fix it. By the
    way -- those are Marines. Not soldiers. :)

    The three heading images are designed to look like patches, although I see
    what you're saying about them. I already have a css style that mimics the
    look so I may replace them at some point with simple text.

    Thank you again for taking the time and making the effort to provide a
    novice with your help. It is really appreciated.

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 30, 2008
    #18
  19. Phonedude

    Phonedude Guest

    "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote in message
    news:b077d$488fc075$cef88ba3$...
    > On 2008-07-30, Phonedude wrote:
    >>
    >> "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote in message
    >> news:637c5$488fa8d7$cef88ba3$...
    >>> On 2008-07-29, Phonedude wrote:
    >>>>>>>> I have converted my volunteered website --
    >>>>>>>> http://www.mclriverview.org --
    >>> ...
    >>>> Well, I got Firefox and IE6 to look pretty much alike. On to the next
    >>>> hurdle.
    >>>
    >>> Better, but still some problems.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Pretty bad looking -- what browser please?

    >
    > It's a matter of font size; the browser is irrelevant.


    It must be that em vs px issue that others have warned me about. I will
    look into it. Thanks.

    Larry
    Phonedude, Jul 30, 2008
    #19
  20. Phonedude

    Ari Heino Guest

    Dorayme said many thins with wise word I thought also. I was more brutal
    :) Sorry.

    If I were you, I'd center the whole content. Do this by giving the
    outmost div a width - be it with pixels like now or with percentages -
    and then center it with "margin: 0 auto;" in css.

    I feel the same way about the background - if it's just a background
    image with no bigger meaning, it has to be really subtle. If that's not
    possible, give it the room you think it deserves and then fade it to
    back or something. Two examples:
    1) http://atheino.googlepages.com/index_en.html (my homepage)
    2) http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/ (css/edge)
    You decide which one is which.

    --
    -Ari
    Ari Heino, Jul 30, 2008
    #20
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