Link TARGET Attribute Enhancement

[Travis Newbury]

Yahoo radio needs sound because radio is a sound-based medium. There
is no other practical [1] way to implement radio.

As there may not be a practical way to make a white board appear on a
page that currently contains a synced video and slide presentation. If
you reuse the current window, the video is gone, unless you want to re
buffer it. Then there is the issue of they slide synchronization.
Sorry, there is no other practical way to do it.

Web applications that use Javascript (flash, pop-ups, etc) fall into
two categories:
1. those where....
2. those where....
Case 2 is the problematic one...
Case 1 is fine -

How do you spell "duh" that is what I have been saying?

 

[Chris Morris]

Chris Morris wrote:
:No lawsuits *yet* - though there have been several threatened that were
settled out of court.:

Names and details?

http://www.miswebdesign.com/resources/articles/julie-howell-rnib-accessibility.html

That's from 2003 and says the RNIB was recently involved in two cases
and was working on several potential ones. I can't find out which
companies were involved - prior to action they tend to keep it
confidential and subsequent to settling it would probably be bad
politics to name-and-shame.

 

[Harlan Messinger]

And as such, you should provide these users an option to turn off all
"new window" loads, [that your app does] (imho).

You haven't a clue what a web based application is. It's not a web site.
It has nothing to do with accessibility,

Why would you think accessibility is applicable only to web sites?

 

[Harlan Messinger]

Secondly:
Yahoo radio needs sound because radio is a sound-based medium. There
is no other practical [1] way to implement radio.
[snip]

[1] Actually, if voice recognition software improved enough, it might
be possible to make a sound driver that converted (either client or
server side) from sound to a transcript. But for now, not practical.

Doesn't matter. In the US, live television broadcasts are
closed-captioned--by hand--and Yahoo radio could provide a text stream
as well. I'm not saying they *should*--much of the same information is
available in Yahoo and other news services in written form, so not much
would be gained by having the same written information synchronized with
Yahoo radio.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Why would you think accessibility is applicable only to web sites?

I didn't say accessibility was only applicable to websites. Please
refer to my Yahoo radio example. That is a web application that has
specific requirements. If you want to use it you must meet the
requirements. The same is true for Most banks, all webcasting
applications and many others. Accessibility has nothing to do with it.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Doesn't matter. In the US, live television broadcasts are
closed-captioned--by hand--and Yahoo radio could provide a text stream
as well. I'm not saying they *should*--much of the same information is
available in Yahoo and other news services in written form, so not much
would be gained by having the same written information synchronized with
Yahoo radio.

"who let the dogs out. Who. Who. Who. Who"

 

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

I didn't say accessibility was only applicable to websites. Please
refer to my Yahoo radio example. That is a web application that has
specific requirements. If you want to use it you must meet the
requirements. The same is true for Most banks, all webcasting
applications and many others. Accessibility has nothing to do with it.

Forcing Window.open and other "accessibility Problems" on people, is an
Accessibility problem, making "use" of it, is not, (if done correctly).

And yes, I do have much more than a clue what a web based application
is, I have done a few for internal consumption by companies, for data
processing/retrieval/useability senses... (Since employees were wished
to be able to work from home, as well as use their own computers in the
office if they liked, requiring an operating system and building
something in Cpp would have been overkill)

~Justin Wood (Callek)

 

[Travis Newbury]

Forcing Window.open and other "accessibility Problems" on people, is an
Accessibility problem, making "use" of it, is not, (if done correctly).

An application must perform its job. If the desired functionality can
not be performed without a pop up window (or Flash, or javascript, or
enter your own accessibility killer here) then accessibility goes out
the window. It is an application the most important thing is that it
performs it's job. Accessibility has nothing to do with it.

And yes, I do have much more than a clue what a web based application
is, I have done a few for internal consumption by companies, for data
processing/retrieval/useability senses...

You have created a web based data entry application. Fine, nothing in
your application requires any of these things. But, have you created
any web based medical applications that monitor systems in real time?
Where the Doctor/Nurse can pull up and arrange equipment monitors? Have
you created any simulation applications where the application simulates
a process based on the computer desktop? Have you created any
conferencing applications where they want to open a white board while on
a live conference? Have you created any SCORM based training?

Accessibility has nothing to do with any of these applications. With a
web application the important thing is that it works. And accessibility
has nothing to do with that.

 

[Alan J. Flavell]

An application must perform its job.

"Its job" presumably includes conformance with applicable national
legislation.

If the desired functionality can not be performed without a pop up
window [...]

Then you'd better be ready to be a test case for disability
discrimination. Even more so if the use of this thing is part of
their employment.

The general principles will be the same across the EU, although the
national legislation may differ in some details.

 

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

....[Cite: Alan J. Flavell's comments]...

You have created a web based data entry application. Fine, nothing in
your application requires any of these things. But, have you created
any web based medical applications that monitor systems in real time?

No, but a colleage did, and consulted me on the accessability issues,
the fact of life is on first use for a particular user what we did was
[This application utilizes some features which may be detrimental to
accessibility needs, you may modify those settings in an accessible way,
by either entering key combination "foo" to bring you to the
accessibility preferences pane, or simply entering the preferences
itself, and selecting "Accessibility Options"] (Of course I am not the
best UI person, so these words went through someone who's job it is for
UI wording and understanding.)

Where the Doctor/Nurse can pull up and arrange equipment monitors?

The exact principle here eludes me, though I cannot say if my college
did this or not, but you make it sound like through the web-app the user
can move around the entire room.

Have
you created any simulation applications where the application simulates
a process based on the computer desktop?

If you mean, chemistry related, physics, etc. then yes...graphical
included, But still without pop-ups, and with word descriptions to
suppliment the graphical representations...no need for the interface
being embedded in the flash, etc.

Have you created any
conferencing applications where they want to open a white board while on
a live conference?

Unfortunately No, though I was part of a small team bidding on one. (And
yes this could have been accessible easily... Some parts could have
been harder such as if we needed handwriting recognition. But the
easier parts could have been acheived.

Have you created any SCORM based training?
No.


Accessibility has nothing to do with any of these applications. With a
web application the important thing is that it works. And accessibility
has nothing to do with that.

Perhaps not where you develop, but hearing your extensive arguments, I
feel VERY bad for those who contract your work.

~Justin Wood (Callek)

 

[Travis Newbury]

No, but a colleage did, and consulted me on the accessability issues...

You mean for all the blind/def/quadriplegic doctors and nurses?

The exact principle here eludes me, though I cannot say if my college
did this or not, but you make it sound like through the web-app the user
can move around the entire room.

Actually they did move from room to room with it, which is why it was a
web application running on a wireless network. But interface I am
speaking is broken into several small areas (up to 9 to be exact)
Clicking on any of them will bring up a detailed window of that
particular Patient. It is used by nurses as they make their rounds they
can still monitor everyone. Bringing up detailed information on any
patient while maintaining a view on everyone. We are currently working
on a similar web application that allows video monitoring of 9 different
tv channels in small windows. Clicking on any of the windows pops up a
larger more detailed window. (This is for large cable company)

If you mean, chemistry related, physics, etc. then yes...graphical
included, But still without pop-ups, and with word descriptions to
suppliment the graphical representations...no need for the interface
being embedded in the flash, etc.

No, I mean a training simulation that mimics the users desk top.
Microsoft now has a practical exam for their certifications where you
have to physically perform some task. We created a web based training
simulation of the Windows environment. Please tell me how you can
simulate (real time) something like this without using something like
flash or java. ( We used Flash for these simulations.)

Unfortunately No, though I was part of a small team bidding on one. (And
yes this could have been accessible easily..

Ok, how can you have a web page that has live video on it and a
synchronized slide presentation. Then the person controlling the
conference wants to use a white board. He does not want to loose (or
re-buffer) the video so you can not lose the video window. How you do
suddenly make the whiteboard appear? (it can not be there all the time
as it would take up too much real estate

Some parts could have
been harder such as if we needed handwriting recognition.

That is irrelevant to the problem of making the whiteboard appear or
disappear on demand

Perhaps not where you develop, but hearing your extensive arguments, I
feel VERY bad for those who contract your work.

Why? Please explain how the functionality of any of the above
application can be achieved without using something that makes the
application and accessibility issue. People seek us out for our
applications and simulations.