Looking for a good CSS file for webpage projects

Discussion in 'HTML' started by John Dalberg, Jul 7, 2004.

  1. John Dalberg

    John Dalberg Guest

    I have a hodgepodge of css files for different projects that I have
    inherited from others. It's getting a bit messy and confusing and have no
    desire to use them again.

    For my new projects, I would like to start using a good 'bog' css file that
    has a whole bunch of css declarations for a consistent look and feel and it
    includes ones that redefine html tags. Anyone can share one or recommend a
    site for css samples that I can use.

    Also looking for websites that have tutorials on what css to use for good
    looking forms and layouts.. like what font to use for form labels, what
    font size for what purpose, is it pixel or point...etc I am not into a
    general css tutorial but what are good "best practices for css" to enhance
    readibility and work flow.

    Thanks for any help.

    J.
     
    John Dalberg, Jul 7, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. John Dalberg

    SpaceGirl Guest

    John Dalberg wrote:

    > I have a hodgepodge of css files for different projects that I have
    > inherited from others. It's getting a bit messy and confusing and have no
    > desire to use them again.
    >
    > For my new projects, I would like to start using a good 'bog' css file that
    > has a whole bunch of css declarations for a consistent look and feel and it
    > includes ones that redefine html tags. Anyone can share one or recommend a
    > site for css samples that I can use.
    >
    > Also looking for websites that have tutorials on what css to use for good
    > looking forms and layouts.. like what font to use for form labels, what
    > font size for what purpose, is it pixel or point...etc I am not into a
    > general css tutorial but what are good "best practices for css" to enhance
    > readibility and work flow.
    >
    > Thanks for any help.
    >
    > J.


    It'd be just a fast to make one yourself.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
     
    SpaceGirl, Jul 7, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. John Dalberg

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:1v50bktuilb5o.k5ko6qn17z7a$>
    John Dalberg <> said:

    > I have a hodgepodge of css files for different projects that I have
    > inherited from others. It's getting a bit messy and confusing and have no
    > desire to use them again.


    delete them. slowly in front of people who don't have css files is best.
    also try some "being tortured" sound effect while you're doing it.

    > For my new projects, I would like to start using a good 'bog' css file that
    > has a whole bunch of css declarations for a consistent look and feel and it
    > includes ones that redefine html tags.


    like spacegirl says

    > Also looking for websites that have tutorials


    see below

    > like what font to use for form labels,


    or how about not specifying any at all so the visitors preferred font is
    used or just specifying the generic family so you get the look you want
    while the visitor gets their preferred font for that family

    > what font size for what purpose, is it pixel or point...etc


    percentages and use 100 of 'em as the smallest (some believe slightly
    below 100% is ok but i'm not one of 'em).


    css tutorials and other fun 'n giggly css stuff:
    http://www.css.nu/
    http://www.mako4css.com/
    http://www.richinstyle.com/
    http://www.blazonry.com/css/
    http://www.w3schools.com/css/
    http://www.websitetips.com/css/
    http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/
    http://www.pageresource.com/dhtml/indexcss.htm
    http://www.webpageworkshop.co.uk/main/css_index
    http://old.climbtothestars.org/coding/cssbasic/
    http://www.htmlcenter.com/tutorials/index.cfm/css/
    http://www.freewebmastertips.com/php/content.php3?aid=48
    http://www.canit.se/~griffon/web/writing_stylesheets.html
    http://www.utoronto.ca/ian/books/xhtml2/exerpt/css-4a.html
    http://www.greytower.net/en/archive/articles/tsutsumi.html
    http://www.intranetjournal.com/articles/200101/csstutorial1a.html
    http://webmonkey.com/authoring/stylesheets/tutorials/tutorial1.html

    layout examples:
    http://www.glish.com/css/
    http://www.csszengarden.com/
    http://www.bookofstyles.org/
    http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/
    http://www.saila.com/usage/layouts/
    http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/
    http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/
    http://nemesis1.f2o.org/templates.php
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~apple77/columns/
    http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/
    http://www.htmler.org/tutorials/3/1.html
    http://css.nu/articles/floating-boxes.html
    http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/
    http://www.roguelibrarian.com/lj/index.html
    http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts
    http://ecoculture.com/styleguide/r/rollovers.html
    http://thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/index.html
    http://www.webreference.com/authoring/style/sheets/layout/advanced/

    some sites using css layouts:
    http://www.inc.com/
    http://www.wired.com/
    http://www.opera.com/
    http://www.kitty5.com/
    http://www.cinnamon.nl/
    http://msn.espn.go.com/
    http://www.virtuelvis.com/
    http://www.emptybottle.org/
    http://www.fastcompany.com/
    http://www.littleyellowdifferent.com/
    http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/2004/

    rounded corners:
    http://www.albin.net/CSS/roundedCorners/
    http://www.alistapart.com/articles/customcorners/
    http://www.guyfisher.com/builder/workshop/css/corners/

    slants: http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/slantinfo.html
    lists: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/taminglists/
    pure css menus: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html
    Fast rollovers: http://www.pixy.cz/blogg/clanky/cssnopreloadrollovers/

    centering thingys
    http://dorward.me.uk/www/centre/
    http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/center.html
    http://www.student.oulu.fi/~laurirai/www/css/middle/
    http://hicksdesign.co.uk/articles/css/vertical_centering_with_css/

    master compatibility charts:
    http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/
    http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/index.html
    http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html
    old:
    http://www.immix.net/html/CSSGuide.htm
    http://devedge.netscape.com/library/xref/2003/css-support/

    hiding CSS from crappy browsers:
    http://diveintomark.org/safari/csshacks/
    http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/bonus/trick-hide.html
    http://www.w3development.de/css/hide_css_from_browsers/

    css checkers:
    http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/csscheck/

    cascading style sheets, level 2 specification
    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
    cascading style sheets, level 2 revision 1 Candidate Recommendation
    http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/

    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Jul 7, 2004
    #3
  4. For brevity, I agree with what was just said.
    However, each and every user can turn off all font, styles and
    colours. They can also set their own style sheets if they wish!

    So go ahead and set what % you want. Just don't expect every user to
    see it how you expect them to. Even - don't expect some of them to
    see it at all.

    1. Make your html valid.
    2. Check that your html is valid.
    3. Do not make any claims to being valid - you will get it wrong!
    4. Make sure your CSS is valid.
    5. Check.....
    6. Do not ...
    7. Validate, validate, validate...
    8. Do not ask for opinions just validate.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
     
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 8, 2004
    #4
  5. John Dalberg

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > For brevity, I agree with what was just said.
    > However, each and every user can turn off all font, styles and
    > colours. They can also set their own style sheets if they wish!
    > So go ahead and set what % you want. Just don't expect every user to
    > see it how you expect them to. Even - don't expect some of them to
    > see it at all.


    While technically correct, I would guess the percentage of people
    that know how (or want) to do this at less than 1% (anyone with facts
    disputing this number?)

    I think the important thing to remember with the web is that since
    the one thing we can agree on is that not everyone will see your site
    as you want them to see it. Given that fact, it is even more
    important that your target group sees it correctly.

    And every site (even if some here refuse to admit it) has a target
    audience. Sometimes this target audience is HUGE (google) In which
    case it had better work on every browser you can name. And sometimes
    it is small (pick any heavy metal band site) Different strokes for
    different folks.

    But then one of the great things about the web (and this group) is
    that we have different points of view. It keeps it real.

    > 1. Make your html valid.
    > 2. Check that your html is valid.
    > 3. Do not make any claims to being valid - you will get it wrong!
    > 4. Make sure your CSS is valid.
    > 5. Check.....
    > 6. Do not ...
    > 7. Validate, validate, validate...
    > 8. Do not ask for opinions just validate.


    How do you really feel about validation?

    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
     
    Webcastmaker, Jul 8, 2004
    #5
  6. John Dalberg

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:>
    "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> said:

    > For brevity, I agree with what was just said.


    YAY!

    > However, each and every user can turn off all font, styles and
    > colours. They can also set their own style sheets if they wish!


    or much more likely hit their back button if the site doesn't "fit" with
    their preferences.

    > 1. Make your html valid.
    > 2. Check that your html is valid.


    "HTML validation" is a good tool, but just a tool
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html

    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Jul 8, 2004
    #6
  7. John Dalberg

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:>
    "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> said:

    > As I said previously, in some countries if your html does not validate
    > you are open to prosecution.


    i'm sure you mean if you don't make reasonable attempts to make your
    sites accessible you're open to prosecution. valid html is one step in
    that direction but is not a requirement. <pokes out tongue/>

    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Jul 8, 2004
    #7
  8. Toby A Inkster, Jul 8, 2004
    #8
  9. On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:08:41 -0400, Webcastmaker
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> For brevity, I agree with what was just said.
    >> However, each and every user can turn off all font, styles and
    >> colours. They can also set their own style sheets if they wish!
    >> So go ahead and set what % you want. Just don't expect every user to
    >> see it how you expect them to. Even - don't expect some of them to
    >> see it at all.

    >
    >While technically correct, I would guess the percentage of people
    >that know how (or want) to do this at less than 1% (anyone with facts
    >disputing this number?)


    Yes.
    But the point is they can - and I take great pleasure in showing
    anyone and everyone how to make the web accessible to themselves.

    >I think the important thing to remember with the web is that since
    >the one thing we can agree on is that not everyone will see your site
    >as you want them to see it. Given that fact, it is even more
    >important that your target group sees it correctly.


    <Emphasis>my audience is mostly blind</Emphasis>,

    >And every site (even if some here refuse to admit it) has a target
    >audience. Sometimes this target audience is HUGE (google) In which
    >case it had better work on every browser you can name. And sometimes
    >it is small (pick any heavy metal band site) Different strokes for
    >different folks.


    As above

    >But then one of the great things about the web (and this group) is
    >that we have different points of view. It keeps it real.
    >
    >> 1. Make your html valid.
    >> 2. Check that your html is valid.
    >> 3. Do not make any claims to being valid - you will get it wrong!
    >> 4. Make sure your CSS is valid.
    >> 5. Check.....
    >> 6. Do not ...
    >> 7. Validate, validate, validate...
    >> 8. Do not ask for opinions just validate.

    >
    >How do you really feel about validation?

    My interpretations may not be legal - they are my logic.
    If it don't validate, you are open to prosecution (in certain
    countries).
    If you want to add the logos afterwards then make sure you have
    re-validated as there is nothing worse than addling a 'I AM A PILLOCK'
    logo and forgetting to alt tag it.

    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
     
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 8, 2004
    #9
  10. On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:41:46 +1000, brucie <>
    wrote:

    >in post: <news:>
    >"Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    ><> said:
    >
    >> For brevity, I agree with what was just said.

    >
    >YAY!
    >
    >> However, each and every user can turn off all font, styles and
    >> colours. They can also set their own style sheets if they wish!

    >
    >or much more likely hit their back button if the site doesn't "fit" with
    >their preferences.
    >
    >> 1. Make your html valid.
    >> 2. Check that your html is valid.

    >
    >"HTML validation" is a good tool, but just a tool
    >http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html

    As I said previously, in some countries if your html does not validate
    you are open to prosecution.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
     
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 8, 2004
    #10
  11. John Dalberg

    rf Guest

    "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:41:46 +1000, brucie <>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > >"HTML validation" is a good tool, but just a tool
    > >http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html


    > As I said previously, in some countries if your html does not validate
    > you are open to prosecution.


    Nope. The law says nothing at all about validation.

    You can quite happily use things like
    <body marginwidth="0"> <!--to keep Netscape 4.x happy -->
    which will not validate but is perfectly accessible.

    However, you might get into real trouble if you use the perfectly valid CSS
    rule:
    body {color: green, background-color: blue;}
    which is quite valid but makes the text invisible to about 3% of the male
    population of the planet.

    brucie and I know. We live in "one of those countries". Plus, it is not
    prosecution, it would be an order from the government to correct the
    situation or be fined. It has happened.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 8, 2004
    #11
  12. John Dalberg

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:>
    "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> said:

    >>> If it don't validate, you are open to prosecution (in certain
    >>> countries).


    >>Name three.


    > England, Wales, Scotland, Australia.......


    i cant comment on the others but aust is not one of them


    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Jul 8, 2004
    #12
  13. John Dalberg

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:>
    "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> said:

    >>> As I said previously, in some countries if your html does not validate
    >>> you are open to prosecution.


    >>i'm sure you mean if you don't make reasonable attempts to make your
    >>sites accessible you're open to prosecution. valid html is one step in
    >>that direction but is not a requirement. <pokes out tongue/>


    > Define reasonable.


    it doesn't matter what i consider reasonable although i suspect i would
    be much harder to satisfy than the appropriate organizations.

    > Under the Acts, sites should follow the guidelines - and there is the
    > problem, they are only guidelines.


    luckily they only are guidelines as some (e.g parts of WCAG) hinder
    accessibility not improve it.

    there is a big difference between satisfying guidelines and creating
    accessible sites.


    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Jul 8, 2004
    #13
  14. John Dalberg

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Not tested under UK law yet.


    I find it interesting how lawyers will use anything they can to make
    money. Sue, sue, sue. Lets great a generic world where everyone is
    the same. The generic human. It will eventually lead to our downfall
    because in reality, we are not all the same. And you cannot write a
    law that changes that fact.

    Oh well, it will be an e-ticket ride.

    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
     
    Webcastmaker, Jul 8, 2004
    #14
  15. On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:47:04 +1000, brucie <>
    wrote:

    >in post: <news:>
    >"Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    ><> said:
    >
    >> As I said previously, in some countries if your html does not validate
    >> you are open to prosecution.

    >
    >i'm sure you mean if you don't make reasonable attempts to make your
    >sites accessible you're open to prosecution. valid html is one step in
    >that direction but is not a requirement. <pokes out tongue/>

    Not tested under UK law yet.

    Define reasonable. Sites are either compliant with SENDA / DDA ACts
    or they are not. Under the Acts, sites should follow the guidelines -
    and there is the problem, they are only guidelines.

    It depends on how the rules are interpreted as to what means what.
    Just adding alt tags makes sites 90% better.

    The RNIB are still helping individuals to pursue claims through the
    courts but they get settled before getting there.

    If in any doubt, contact Julie Howell at the RNIB.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
     
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 8, 2004
    #15
  16. On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 09:41:28 +0100, Toby A Inkster
    <> wrote:

    >Titus A Ducksass wrote:
    >
    >> If it don't validate, you are open to prosecution (in certain
    >> countries).

    >
    >Name three.

    England, Wales, Scotland, Australia.......

    If sites do not validate then they are not compliant with the
    guidelines.

    The SENDA / DDA Acts require that websites be compliant with the
    guidelines.

    I know you understand this more than others Toby and I hope you are
    just playing devils advocate.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
     
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 8, 2004
    #16
  17. Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back. wrote:

    > If sites do not validate then they are not compliant with the
    > guidelines.
    >
    > The SENDA / DDA Acts require that websites be compliant with the
    > guidelines.


    The DDA requires that websites are accessible, but it doesn't require that
    websites conform to W3C standards. It is true that often invalid HTML can
    be a barrier to accessibility but one does not imply the other: there are
    certainly accessible websites that do not validate and inaccessible
    websites that do validate.

    As an example, I like to think of my own website as pretty accessible.
    Changing my <body> tag to <body foo="bar"> would make it invalid (there is
    no attribute "foo") but wouldn't be a barrier to accessibility. On the
    other hand, <body style="color:red;background:green"> is valid HTML but a
    barrier to accessibility.

    On that note, I leave you with:
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.disability.gov.uk/

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
     
    Toby A Inkster, Jul 8, 2004
    #17
  18. John Dalberg

    Steve Pugh Guest

    Toby A Inkster <> wrote:

    >The DDA requires that websites are accessible, but it doesn't require that
    >websites conform to W3C standards.


    In the absence of any case law, both lawyers and accessibility
    consultants are recommending that complying with the WCAG guidelines
    is the simplest way to ensure DDA compliance. And using valid code is
    a priority 2 guideline (hence needed for Level AA compliance).

    Given time and some court cases a fuller definition of what the DDA
    means for web sites will emerge.

    >It is true that often invalid HTML can
    >be a barrier to accessibility but one does not imply the other: there are
    >certainly accessible websites that do not validate and inaccessible
    >websites that do validate.


    Very true.

    >On that note, I leave you with:
    >http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.disability.gov.uk/


    One missing </p> (or one extra <p>).
    However that site is so boring to look at, all it really does is
    reinforce the inaccurate idea that accessibility means dull design.

    Oh and I wouldn't take accessibility advice from anyone who thinks
    that alt="The Disability Logo - clicking here will take you to the
    disability home page" is good practice (especially as this is the home
    page).

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
     
    Steve Pugh, Jul 8, 2004
    #18
  19. John Dalberg

    Andy Dingley Guest

    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back. <> wrote in message
    > >> If it don't validate, you are open to prosecution (in certain
    > >> countries).

    > >
    > >Name three.

    > England, Wales, Scotland, Australia.......


    You're "open to prosecution" for blasphemy if you include a <blink>
    tag. The prosecution may _fail_, but we're all (as a general
    principle) at liberty to drag any bogus argument we care to before a
    court, and to claim that it's a breach of whichever statute we wish.
    It's then the court's job to judge the merits of such an action. Only
    if you make a habit of it and have yourself officially judge-slapped
    do you lose this right.

    In the current situation of almost complete uncertainty about the
    _legal_ demand for accessibility, then we're still not much better
    off.


    > If sites do not validate then they are not compliant with the
    > guidelines.


    Is this stated anywhere ? I agree with the principle, but do any
    statutory requirements really go this far ?


    And what is "validation" anyway ? I certainly don't understand what
    it means in obscure cases (read my comp.text.xml post). Does this mean
    passing HTML validation ? Does Appendix C apply too ? What about
    making a page with valid CSS that becomes unreadable owing to a
    browser bug on the most popular browser ?

    In Lessig's essay he argues that there is "No law of the horse" and
    that this is a good thing regarding future internet legislation (or
    the lack of need for it). Theft is theft, and there's no need for a
    law against stealing horses when there's already a more general law
    against theft that applies perfectly well. When law is framed to be
    too specific, it all too often becomes an ass rather than a horse. The
    idea of _lawyers_ arguing over technical standards compliance is
    horrifying. As an example, look at the current US case where a
    bookshop offered an ISP service to its customers, then snooped their
    email to look for Amazon orders - yet the legal wrigglings have proven
    (sic) that this wasn't wiretapping.
     
    Andy Dingley, Jul 8, 2004
    #19
  20. John Dalberg

    Neal Guest

    On 8 Jul 2004 07:40:52 -0700, Andy Dingley <> wrote:

    > The
    > idea of _lawyers_ arguing over technical standards compliance is
    > horrifying. As an example, look at the current US case where a
    > bookshop offered an ISP service to its customers, then snooped their
    > email to look for Amazon orders - yet the legal wrigglings have proven
    > (sic) that this wasn't wiretapping.


    Where's the wire?

    They didn't intercept a transmission, they read a file sitting on their
    own computer. I'm not saying it's right, but it isn't wiretapping.
     
    Neal, Jul 8, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Karim
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    10,663
    Genomega
    Nov 30, 2003
  2. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    438
  3. Paul
    Replies:
    14
    Views:
    861
    Alexey Smirnov
    Jun 19, 2008
  4. sifar
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    435
  5. soren625
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    381
    soren625
    Dec 12, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page