minor html problem

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Andries, Apr 3, 2004.

  1. Andries

    Andries Guest

    Hello folks,

    Might be the wrong place to ask, but i take my chance.
    A html-question.
    On a site i have several pictures. The layout of the pages is:
    header, picture, navigation.
    When the page loads you'll see header, navigation (for a few secs.) And
    then you see header, picture, navigation.
    Go to http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/start.html
    Click on 1986, the you see thumbs. Then click on the thumbs and you'll
    see what i mean.

    Question: Is there a way to set the naviagtion right in place by loading
    the picture first?

    Andries Meijer
    Zilz
    Andries, Apr 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. Andries

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:c4nafj$lf5$1.nb.home.nl>
    Andries <> said:

    > Might be the wrong place to ask, but i take my chance.
    > A html-question.


    i told everyone alt.html was a dumb name for a ear wax fetish group.

    > Go to http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/start.html
    > Click on 1986, the you see thumbs. Then click on the thumbs and you'll
    > see what i mean.


    i don't see "1986" or the thumbs and whatever the silver dot thingy is
    it doesn't do anything when i click it.

    > Question: Is there a way to set the naviagtion right in place by loading
    > the picture first?


    you have much more serious problems than that.

    --
    b r u c i e
    brucie, Apr 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. Andries

    Andries Guest

    Brucie,

    Thanks for your time.

    No no that really not the problem.
    Go to http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/start.html
    or http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/
    When you get to the navigation bar (left) Click on 1986 and then you see
    the thumbs.

    Andries

    brucie wrote:

    > in post: <news:c4nafj$lf5$1.nb.home.nl>
    > Andries <> said:
    >
    >
    >>Might be the wrong place to ask, but i take my chance.
    >>A html-question.

    >
    >
    > i told everyone alt.html was a dumb name for a ear wax fetish group.
    >
    >
    >>Go to http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/start.html
    >>Click on 1986, the you see thumbs. Then click on the thumbs and you'll
    >>see what i mean.

    >
    >
    > i don't see "1986" or the thumbs and whatever the silver dot thingy is
    > it doesn't do anything when i click it.
    >
    >
    >>Question: Is there a way to set the naviagtion right in place by loading
    >>the picture first?

    >
    >
    > you have much more serious problems than that.
    >
    Andries, Apr 3, 2004
    #3
  4. Andries

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:c4nb7p$pvv$1.nb.home.nl>
    Andries <> said:

    > No no that really not the problem.
    > Go to http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/start.html


    http://moreshit.bruciesusenetshit.info/screencap01.png [3k]

    > or http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/
    > When you get to the navigation bar (left) Click on 1986 and then you see
    > the thumbs.


    yep

    > Is there a way to set the naviagtion right in place by loading
    > the picture first?


    i don't understand the question. you have two frames, nav in one and
    thumbs in the other (not a reason to use frames) they appear to be
    behaving how frames are supposed to behave.

    don't use frames
    http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/l_vajzovic/tom/web/frames.html
    http://www.karlcore.com/articles/article.php?id=2
    http://david.us-lot.org/www/frames/

    please don't toppost

    How am I supposed to post my replies in a newsgroup?:
    http://allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post

    --
    b r u c i e
    brucie, Apr 3, 2004
    #4
  5. Andries

    Rob McAninch Guest

    brucie <news:c4nc9v$2lh3e0$-berlin.de>:

    > in post: <news:c4nb7p$pvv$1.nb.home.nl>
    > Andries <> said:
    >> http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/start.html
    >> or http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/
    >> When you get to the navigation bar (left) Click on 1986 and
    >> then you see the thumbs.


    I don't like the forced fullscreen from that first link, makes me
    think I should be more strict about what I allow to happen with
    *my* browser. (Probably why brucie didn't see anything that first
    time.)

    >> Is there a way to set the naviagtion right in place by
    >> loading the picture first?

    >
    > i don't understand the question. you have two frames [...] they
    > appear to be behaving how frames are supposed to behave.


    Do you perhaps mean the navigation in the frame with the images?
    E.g. the next,index,prev icons?

    I can only guess you're experiencing some issue caused by a slow
    connection where the image load time is delaying the navigation
    icons from loading.

    Replacing the icons with text links might load them a bit faster.
    The browser should render all the text while the single image is
    loading. Then again, after those nav icons are cached it
    shouldn't be an issue on subsequent pages.
    --
    Rob - http://rock13.com/
    Web Stuff: http://rock13.com/webhelp/
    Rob McAninch, Apr 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Andries

    Andries Guest

    Hello Rob,

    You'll understand my problem

    Rob McAninch wrote:
    > brucie <news:c4nc9v$2lh3e0$-berlin.de>:
    >
    >
    >>in post: <news:c4nb7p$pvv$1.nb.home.nl>
    >>Andries <> said:
    >>
    >>>http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/start.html
    >>>or http://www.zilz.net/Bijwaard/
    >>>When you get to the navigation bar (left) Click on 1986 and
    >>>then you see the thumbs.

    >
    >
    > I don't like the forced fullscreen from that first link, makes me
    > think I should be more strict about what I allow to happen with
    > *my* browser. (Probably why brucie didn't see anything that first
    > time.)


    I do understand this. But it's supposed to be put on a cd as part of an
    art-book. So the user won't mind his navigation is gone. I did this to
    get the pictures/drawings as large as possible.


    >>>Is there a way to set the naviagtion right in place by
    >>>loading the picture first?

    >>
    >>i don't understand the question. you have two frames [...] they
    >>appear to be behaving how frames are supposed to behave.

    >
    >
    > Do you perhaps mean the navigation in the frame with the images?
    > E.g. the next,index,prev icons?
    >
    > I can only guess you're experiencing some issue caused by a slow
    > connection where the image load time is delaying the navigation
    > icons from loading.


    That's the problem indeed!

    > Replacing the icons with text links might load them a bit faster.
    > The browser should render all the text while the single image is
    > loading. Then again, after those nav icons are cached it
    > shouldn't be an issue on subsequent pages.


    If the nav icons are cached in the problem stays.
    I thought it must be possible to "preload" the size of the image as
    space. But i can't find anything on this. Is this possible? And if so How?

    Andries
    Andries, Apr 4, 2004
    #6
  7. Andries

    Jim Roberts Guest

    "Andries" <> wrote in message
    news:c4ngch$u3v$1.nb.home.nl...
    > If the nav icons are cached in the problem stays.
    > I thought it must be possible to "preload" the size of the image as
    > space. But i can't find anything on this. Is this possible? And if so How?
    >
    > Andries


    Try including the height and width attributes in your img elements, if you
    haven't done that already. Just set them to the actual height/width of the
    image. That should preload the size, hopefully. :)

    Good Luck!
    Jim
    Jim Roberts, Apr 4, 2004
    #7
  8. Andries

    Andries Guest

    Jim,

    Might do the trick.
    Thanx

    Andries

    Jim Roberts wrote:

    > "Andries" <> wrote in message
    > news:c4ngch$u3v$1.nb.home.nl...
    >
    >>If the nav icons are cached in the problem stays.
    >>I thought it must be possible to "preload" the size of the image as
    >>space. But i can't find anything on this. Is this possible? And if so How?
    >>
    >>Andries

    >
    >
    > Try including the height and width attributes in your img elements, if you
    > haven't done that already. Just set them to the actual height/width of the
    > image. That should preload the size, hopefully. :)
    >
    > Good Luck!
    > Jim
    >
    >
    Andries, Apr 4, 2004
    #8
  9. Andries

    Rob McAninch Guest

    Andries <news:c4ngch$u3v$1.nb.home.nl>:

    > Rob McAninch wrote:

    [snip]
    >> I don't like the forced fullscreen from that first link [...]

    >
    > I do understand this. But it's supposed to be put on a cd as
    > part of an art-book. So the user won't mind his navigation is
    > gone. I did this to get the pictures/drawings as large as
    > possible.


    As someone else pointed out, including the height and width of
    the images will help the browser render the page faster and then
    fill in the image as it downloads.

    However, if this site is to end up on a CD then this issue should
    not even matter. For instance your pages are rendered quickly on
    my connection (typically around 300kb/sec) and accessing a local
    drive is going to be much faster.

    How do the pages perform when you access them off of your local
    drive?

    --
    Rob - http://rock13.com/
    Web Stuff: http://rock13.com/webhelp/
    Rob McAninch, Apr 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Andries

    Jim Roberts Guest

    "Rob McAninch" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94C0D2C60FD75rock13com@216.196.97.142...
    > Andries <news:c4ngch$u3v$1.nb.home.nl>:
    >
    > > Rob McAninch wrote:

    > [snip]
    > >> I don't like the forced fullscreen from that first link [...]

    > >
    > > I do understand this. But it's supposed to be put on a cd as
    > > part of an art-book. So the user won't mind his navigation is
    > > gone. I did this to get the pictures/drawings as large as
    > > possible.

    >
    > As someone else pointed out, including the height and width of
    > the images will help the browser render the page faster and then
    > fill in the image as it downloads.
    >
    > However, if this site is to end up on a CD then this issue should
    > not even matter. For instance your pages are rendered quickly on
    > my connection (typically around 300kb/sec) and accessing a local
    > drive is going to be much faster.
    >
    > How do the pages perform when you access them off of your local
    > drive?
    >
    > --
    > Rob - http://rock13.com/
    > Web Stuff: http://rock13.com/webhelp/


    That's a really good point. Load times from a CD-ROM are going to be pretty
    good. A user can easily copy the files to the local HD. If you were going to
    keep a version on the web however, there is that problem when a page loads
    into a frame. you see a white background color flash before the page
    completely loads.

    Andries,
    I noticed you have a mono-color gif that you tile on 'main pages'. Add this
    to your style sheet:

    body {
    background-color: #C7C4AF
    }

    That's the color of your background GIF and all of your main pages are
    linked to the same style sheet. At your leisure, you can remove background
    attributes of all the main html pages body elements. Unless you plan using
    another background image in the future. Then on your frames page, add this
    attribute to the "main" frame element:

    <FRAME NAME="main" SRC="main.html" SCROLLING="AUTO" BORDER=0 MARGIN=0
    TARGET="_top" allowtransparency="true" >

    allowTransparency="true" is a Microsoft extension and only works for IE5 and
    later. It shouldn't break other browsers though. This attribute will make
    the frame background transparent and let the original body background color
    show. see:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/allowtransparency.asp

    That is, if you want to leave a version on your site.

    Regards,
    Jim
    Jim Roberts, Apr 4, 2004
    #10
  11. Andries

    Jim Roberts Guest

    I wrote:
    > At your leisure, you can remove background attributes of all the main

    html >pages body elements.

    to be more clear:
    At your leisure, you can remove the background attribute from the body tags
    of all your pages which load into the main frame. ie, remove the gif
    background...
    Jim Roberts, Apr 4, 2004
    #11
  12. Rob McAninch wrote:

    > I don't like the forced fullscreen from that first link


    It isn't actually forced fullscreen... its "a size that happens to be about
    the same as maximised if you happen to be running Microsoft Windows is a
    one unit high taskbar at the top or bottom of the screen and no, you aren't
    allowed to bookmark, print, go back or otherwise use any of the nice
    standard features of your browser"

    Anything else and it either won't fill the screen, or it will be too big for
    the screen.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    David Dorward, Apr 4, 2004
    #12
  13. Andries

    Andries Guest

    Jim,

    Great tips.
    Thanx.

    Andries

    Jim Roberts wrote:
    > "Rob McAninch" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns94C0D2C60FD75rock13com@216.196.97.142...
    >
    >>Andries <news:c4ngch$u3v$1.nb.home.nl>:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Rob McAninch wrote:

    >>
    >>[snip]
    >>
    >>>>I don't like the forced fullscreen from that first link [...]
    >>>
    >>>I do understand this. But it's supposed to be put on a cd as
    >>>part of an art-book. So the user won't mind his navigation is
    >>>gone. I did this to get the pictures/drawings as large as
    >>>possible.

    >>
    >>As someone else pointed out, including the height and width of
    >>the images will help the browser render the page faster and then
    >>fill in the image as it downloads.
    >>
    >>However, if this site is to end up on a CD then this issue should
    >>not even matter. For instance your pages are rendered quickly on
    >>my connection (typically around 300kb/sec) and accessing a local
    >>drive is going to be much faster.
    >>
    >>How do the pages perform when you access them off of your local
    >>drive?
    >>
    >>--
    >>Rob - http://rock13.com/
    >>Web Stuff: http://rock13.com/webhelp/

    >
    >
    > That's a really good point. Load times from a CD-ROM are going to be pretty
    > good. A user can easily copy the files to the local HD. If you were going to
    > keep a version on the web however, there is that problem when a page loads
    > into a frame. you see a white background color flash before the page
    > completely loads.
    >
    > Andries,
    > I noticed you have a mono-color gif that you tile on 'main pages'. Add this
    > to your style sheet:
    >
    > body {
    > background-color: #C7C4AF
    > }
    >
    > That's the color of your background GIF and all of your main pages are
    > linked to the same style sheet. At your leisure, you can remove background
    > attributes of all the main html pages body elements. Unless you plan using
    > another background image in the future. Then on your frames page, add this
    > attribute to the "main" frame element:
    >
    > <FRAME NAME="main" SRC="main.html" SCROLLING="AUTO" BORDER=0 MARGIN=0
    > TARGET="_top" allowtransparency="true" >
    >
    > allowTransparency="true" is a Microsoft extension and only works for IE5 and
    > later. It shouldn't break other browsers though. This attribute will make
    > the frame background transparent and let the original body background color
    > show. see:
    >
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/allowtransparency.asp
    >
    > That is, if you want to leave a version on your site.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jim
    >
    >
    Andries, Apr 4, 2004
    #13
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