NetBeans 4.0 totally blows. What other IDE's are available?

Discussion in 'Java' started by xarax, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. xarax

    xarax Guest

    Subject line says it all. NetBeans 4.0 is a
    total disaster. I need something else that is
    free.
     
    xarax, Dec 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. xarax wrote on 04.12.2004 00:08:

    > Subject line says it all. NetBeans 4.0 is a
    > total disaster. I need something else that is
    > free.
    >
    >

    Use NetBeans 3.6 :)

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Kellerer, Dec 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. xarax wrote:

    > Subject line says it all. NetBeans 4.0 is a total disaster.


    Why exactly?

    > I need something else that is free.


    eclipse
     
    Michael Borgwardt, Dec 3, 2004
    #3
  4. xarax

    Steve Guest

    xarax wrote:
    > Subject line says it all. NetBeans 4.0 is a
    > total disaster. I need something else that is
    > free.
    >
    >


    You get what you pay for. Visual Slickedit is it for Java and dozens of
    other things, but it cost $$$. It is worth every penny though.

    Steve

    --
    Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
    http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/Veg/healthyVeg.html

    Steve's Home Page
    http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

    "The great American thought trap: It is not real
    unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
    shopping mall"
     
    Steve, Dec 4, 2004
    #4
  5. On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 23:08:27 GMT, xarax wrote:

    Please repeat the gist of the subject in the body..

    > Re: NetBeans 4.0 totally blows. What other IDE's are available?


    c.l.j.s-t is -> thataway
    <http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#cljso>

    > Subject line says it all.


    Sure. You want an IDE that sucks, rather than blows?

    >..NetBeans 4.0 is a
    > total disaster. I need something else that is
    > free.


    Unfortunately, I don't know of any IDE's that suck,
    but for a lighterweight editor you might try TextPad.
    (OK.. it is shareware, but close to free)

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 4, 2004
    #5
  6. Andrew Thompson wrote on 04.12.2004 09:09:
    > Unfortunately, I don't know of any IDE's that suck,
    > but for a lighterweight editor you might try TextPad.
    > (OK.. it is shareware, but close to free)
    >

    if we are talking about pure editors I would recommend PSPad
    (www.pspad.com) completely free and as programmer's editor better then TextPad

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Kellerer, Dec 4, 2004
    #6
  7. On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 10:24:10 +0100, Thomas Kellerer wrote:

    > Andrew Thompson wrote on 04.12.2004 09:09:
    >> Unfortunately, I don't know of any IDE's that suck,
    >> but for a lighterweight editor you might try TextPad.
    >> (OK.. it is shareware, but close to free)
    >>

    > if we are talking about pure editors


    (shrugs vaguely) Define 'pure', define 'integrated'/'development'..
    TextPad will also compile and launch from within the editor. (Woohoo)

    >..I would recommend PSPad
    > (www.pspad.com) completely free and as programmer's editor better then TextPad


    Thanks. I might check it out.

    BTW - Does it provide 'suck' as standard or as a free plug-in?
    [ Better remain on-topic here. ;-) ]

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 4, 2004
    #7
  8. xarax

    IchBin Guest

    xarax wrote:
    > Subject line says it all. NetBeans 4.0 is a
    > total disaster. I need something else that is
    > free.
    >
    >

    Depends on what you want to do...

    Clean and very efficient: jGRASP, http://www.jgrasp.org/index.html

    else

    Eclipse, http://www.eclipse.org/

    or

    JDeveloper, http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/index.html

    --


    Thanks in Advance...
    IchBin
    __________________________________________________________________________

    'The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical
    substances:
    if there is any reaction, both are transformed.'
    - Carl Gustav Jung, (1875-1961), psychiatrist and psychologist
     
    IchBin, Dec 4, 2004
    #8
  9. xarax

    xarax Guest

    "Thomas Kellerer" <> wrote in message
    news:coqrpr$aqf$-online.net...
    > xarax wrote on 04.12.2004 00:08:
    >
    > > Subject line says it all. NetBeans 4.0 is a
    > > total disaster. I need something else that is
    > > free.
    > >
    > >

    > Use NetBeans 3.6 :)


    I had to go back to 3.6 temporarily, but it
    doesn't understand J2SE 5.0.

    If you have anything in NB 3.6 projects that
    is more complicated than "Hello World!", then
    migrating to 4.0 is a nightmare and impossible.
    They changed the whole project paradigm into
    a braindead disaster.
     
    xarax, Dec 4, 2004
    #9
  10. xarax wrote on 04.12.2004 14:14:
    > I had to go back to 3.6 temporarily, but it
    > doesn't understand J2SE 5.0.
    >
    > If you have anything in NB 3.6 projects that
    > is more complicated than "Hello World!", then
    > migrating to 4.0 is a nightmare and impossible.
    > They changed the whole project paradigm into
    > a braindead disaster.


    I have to agree here. The idea of having an Ant based project system itself
    is quite nice, but the implementation lacks the usability the old
    "mounting" system had.

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Kellerer, Dec 4, 2004
    #10
  11. xarax

    Steve Guest

    Thomas Kellerer wrote:

    ( concerning netbeans 4.0 changes )

    > I have to agree here. The idea of having an Ant based project system
    > itself is quite nice, but the implementation lacks the usability the old
    > "mounting" system had.


    Why?

    Many people found having to mount directories confusing and worse needless.

    What was it about netbeans 3.6 not being automatically connected/mounted
    to a directory structure had more usability.

    I'm not being sarcastic, I'm legitamitely curious about your opinion.

    Steve

    --
    Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
    http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/Veg/healthyVeg.html

    Steve's Home Page
    http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

    "The great American thought trap: It is not real
    unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
    shopping mall"
     
    Steve, Dec 4, 2004
    #11
  12. Thomas Kellerer wrote:
    > xarax wrote on 04.12.2004 14:14:
    >

    [...]
    >> migrating to 4.0 is a nightmare and impossible.
    >> They changed the whole project paradigm into
    >> a braindead disaster.

    >
    >
    > I have to agree here. The idea of having an Ant based project system
    > itself is quite nice, but the implementation lacks the usability the old
    > "mounting" system had.


    Why?

    Bye
    Michael
     
    Michael Rauscher, Dec 4, 2004
    #12
  13. Steve wrote on 04.12.2004 15:40:

    > Thomas Kellerer wrote:
    >
    >> I have to agree here. The idea of having an Ant based project system
    >> itself is quite nice, but the implementation lacks the usability the
    >> old "mounting" system had.

    >
    > Why?
    >
    > Many people found having to mount directories confusing and worse needless.
    >

    That's only because the NB developers chose to use the word "mounting" instead
    of "add to classpath". I believe if they had chosen the latter, nobody
    would have complained about the concept.

    I liked the concept. You need another directory in your classpath? Right
    click on the root node, choose mount directory, done.

    You can have any number of directories in there without going through three
    different tabs of a "project wizard" where you need to specify much more
    then really necessary.

    The "mounting" paradigm was as close to the classpath idea as one could
    imagine. That's why I liked it.

    The problem with the old concept was, that you could not move a project
    definition from one computer to another. But the complicated setup in 4.0
    doesn't make that better. If I want to add another directory with Java
    sources, I have to create a new project. Which might make sense in some
    cases but not in all (this deficiency has onyl recently been taken care of)

    There are so many little features that were simply discarded with the new
    system that were essential to the usability of NB. Some of them have been
    added during the beta phase due to the outcry of the user community (e.g.
    missing the "run file" possibility in a Web Project)

    it's more the implementation then the actual concept that I don't like. Why
    do I have different types of projects? I have different types of
    directories (e.g. "regular" class definitions and web modules) but
    attaching this to the whole project doesn't make sense in my eyes.

    My guess is that NB will take at least 2 or 3 more versions until the NB
    developers (whose work is very much appreciated from my side, don't get me
    wrong) will have included all the features that users loved in the old
    version.

    I know that there are a lot of people out there who like the new style
    better, and that's fine. In the end everybody choses the products/tools
    that suits his/her style of work best, but I reserve the right for me to
    find the new project system much more complicated then the old one.

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Kellerer, Dec 4, 2004
    #13
  14. xarax

    Guest

    Andrew Thompson <> wrote:
    > Unfortunately, I don't know of any IDE's that suck,
    > but for a lighterweight editor you might try TextPad.
    > (OK.. it is shareware, but close to free)


    I'll chime in here and say I've had good luck with jEdit
    ( http://www.jedit.org ). There are lots of plug-ins avaialble for
    jEdit which can turn it into a pretty comfortable Java development
    environment.
     
    , Dec 4, 2004
    #14
  15. xarax

    David Segall Guest

    David Segall, Dec 4, 2004
    #15
  16. xarax

    Steve Guest

    Thomas Kellerer wrote:
    >
    >
    > Steve wrote on 04.12.2004 15:40:
    >
    >> Thomas Kellerer wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have to agree here. The idea of having an Ant based project system
    >>> itself is quite nice, but the implementation lacks the usability the
    >>> old "mounting" system had.

    >>
    >>
    >> Why?
    >>
    >> Many people found having to mount directories confusing and worse
    >> needless.
    >>

    > That's only because the NB developers chose to use the word "mounting"
    > instead
    > of "add to classpath". I believe if they had chosen the latter, nobody
    > would have complained about the concept.


    I agree. I never made that connection ( I only casually try netbeans
    once in a blue moon ), but the way you describe it sounds like a plus
    that got lost due to a confusion originating from bad nomenclature.

    Steve


    Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
    http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/Veg/healthyVeg.html

    Steve's Home Page
    http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

    "The great American thought trap: It is not real
    unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
    shopping mall"
     
    Steve, Dec 4, 2004
    #16
  17. xarax

    Ryan Stewart Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:41b1d827$0$85078$...
    > Andrew Thompson <> wrote:
    >> Unfortunately, I don't know of any IDE's that suck,
    >> but for a lighterweight editor you might try TextPad.
    >> (OK.. it is shareware, but close to free)

    >
    > I'll chime in here and say I've had good luck with jEdit
    > ( http://www.jedit.org ). There are lots of plug-ins avaialble for
    > jEdit which can turn it into a pretty comfortable Java development
    > environment.


    Please share, then. How do you have it set up exactly? What plug-ins,
    options, etc? A coworker and I have looked at it but couldn't seem to get
    much of anywhere with it.
     
    Ryan Stewart, Dec 5, 2004
    #17
  18. xarax

    Guest

    Ryan Stewart <> wrote:
    >> I'll chime in here and say I've had good luck with jEdit
    >> ( http://www.jedit.org ). There are lots of plug-ins avaialble for
    >> jEdit which can turn it into a pretty comfortable Java development
    >> environment.

    >
    > Please share, then. How do you have it set up exactly? What plug-ins,
    > options, etc? A coworker and I have looked at it but couldn't seem to get
    > much of anywhere with it.


    Plugins -> Plugin Manager -> Install. The available plug-ins are
    listed with descriptions of each.

    I should mention jEdit lacks a debugger plug-in, which I guess I have
    to admit is a show stopper for making it a complete development
    environment solution.
     
    , Dec 5, 2004
    #18
  19. xarax

    Ryan Stewart Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:41b37001$0$11088$...
    > Ryan Stewart <> wrote:
    >>> I'll chime in here and say I've had good luck with jEdit
    >>> ( http://www.jedit.org ). There are lots of plug-ins avaialble for
    >>> jEdit which can turn it into a pretty comfortable Java development
    >>> environment.

    >>
    >> Please share, then. How do you have it set up exactly? What plug-ins,
    >> options, etc? A coworker and I have looked at it but couldn't seem to get
    >> much of anywhere with it.

    >
    > Plugins -> Plugin Manager -> Install. The available plug-ins are
    > listed with descriptions of each.
    >

    I've seen that. There must be over a hundred though. Which ones do you
    suggest?

    > I should mention jEdit lacks a debugger plug-in, which I guess I have
    > to admit is a show stopper for making it a complete development
    > environment solution.
    >

    I rarely use a debugger anyhow. For one thing I primarily write webapps. For
    another, I find Java to be extremely verbose in its error messages, making
    it (almost always) simple to track down problems. The only times I've used a
    debugger for Java in the past year or so is just because it was cool
    watching the variable values change.
     
    Ryan Stewart, Dec 5, 2004
    #19
  20. xarax

    Alberto Guest

    I think that there has been plenty or suggestions. I only would like to
    add that it all depends on the level of java development that you are
    trying to accomplish. If you want a lot of fancy tools for free,
    Eclipse will be a total winner (as far as free IDE is concerned)
    however, keep in mind that it uses A LOT of system resources, so
    depending on what kind of PC you have you may feel the difference or
    not. One of my PCs has RH9 on a celeron processor with 156 MB RAM and
    it's not a pretty good idea to use eclipse there. "JBlue" may be a good
    alternative if you are at the entry level or would like to code
    something really cool and fast. It's extremely easy to learn (if you
    take more than 1 hours it's a lot). I like it (JBlue) as a good IDE
    for developing ideas on OOP since it shows your classes as objects and
    displays arrows to show inheritance/composition relationships among
    classes (kind of like UML diagrams may look like, but very vague).
    Running you code would probably be difficult since you would have to
    use the command prompt, unlike Eclipse which has a builtin console.
    Good luck!


    Alberto
     
    Alberto, Dec 6, 2004
    #20
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