Offsite JSP

Discussion in 'Java' started by Roedy Green, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    I have always encouraged people do download a mirror copy of my
    website and keep it locally, for speed, local indexing, and for access
    when my site in unavailable.

    I also figured this would make it hard for one of my enemies to
    destroy every last copy of my website.

    However, if I start using JSP, the parts of the page generated with
    JSP will just be gibberish if people read the unprocessed pages
    offline.

    I wondered what people do in this situation.

    Is there a way to do markup so that you get a default display if the
    page is not yet JSP-expanded? Must you periodically expand all web
    pages with JSP and capture them for offsite reading?
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability,"
    ~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72)
     
    Roedy Green, Aug 30, 2009
    #1
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  2. Roedy Green

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I also figured this would make it hard for one of my enemies to
    > destroy every last copy of my website.


    Are they that out to get you? Why?

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Aug 30, 2009
    #2
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  3. Roedy Green

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Qu0ll" <> wrote in message
    news:4a9a5d71$0$28362$...
    > "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> I also figured this would make it hard for one of my enemies to
    >> destroy every last copy of my website.

    >
    > Are they that out to get you? Why?


    Ah, I can see from the other thread that you have more than your fair share
    of "anti-admirers".

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Aug 30, 2009
    #3
  4. Roedy Green

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > I have always encouraged people do download a mirror copy of my
    > website and keep it locally, for speed, local indexing, and for access
    > when my site in unavailable.
    >
    > I also figured this would make it hard for one of my enemies to
    > destroy every last copy of my website.
    >
    > However, if I start using JSP, the parts of the page generated with
    > JSP will just be gibberish if people read the unprocessed pages
    > offline.
    >
    > I wondered what people do in this situation.
    >
    > Is there a way to do markup so that you get a default display if the
    > page is not yet JSP-expanded? Must you periodically expand all web
    > pages with JSP and capture them for offsite reading?


    If the web site is actually dynamic then the only solution
    that makes sense is to have users download the war and deploy
    it on their own servlet container (including running
    SQL scripts to setup database).

    If the web site is not dynamic then JSP is not the right
    technology.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Aug 30, 2009
    #4
  5. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:07:28 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >
    >Are they that out to get you? Why?


    A number of reasons.
    I strenuously oppose the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. I most definitely
    do NOT support the troops. I explain why they are war criminals.
    I think there was inside collusion in 9/11.
    I oppose "religious ceremonies" that involve whale sacrifice
    I am gay
    I have HIV
    I think our capitalist economic system needs some tweaking (I am a
    heretic).
    I gave general liberal values.
    I sometimes wrote scathing comments about computer hardware and
    software (not a problem now, but it was when I was a newspaper
    columnist with much more clout).

    If you are curious at some of the reaction to my writings see
    http://mindprod.com/feedback/feedback.html
    or the blogs
    http://endtheiraqwar.blogspot.com/
    http://911insidejob.blogspot.com/
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability,"
    ~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72)
     
    Roedy Green, Aug 31, 2009
    #5
  6. Roedy Green

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I strenuously oppose the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. I most definitely
    > do NOT support the troops. I explain why they are war criminals.


    I am not sure I would describe the troops as war criminals but you, me and
    most of the world oppose the wars.

    > I think there was inside collusion in 9/11.


    So do many people. I don't have enough information to come to a conclusion
    either way.

    > I oppose "religious ceremonies" that involve whale sacrifice


    Surely most people do too.

    > I am gay


    Does anyone really care about that? It's said that 10% of the world's
    population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone else
    is somewhere in between.

    > I have HIV


    Well that's unfortunate but hardly a reason for people to attack you.

    > I think our capitalist economic system needs some tweaking (I am a
    > heretic).


    Obviously it does need some tweaking!

    > I gave general liberal values.


    So do at least half of the population.

    > I sometimes wrote scathing comments about computer hardware and
    > software (not a problem now, but it was when I was a newspaper
    > columnist with much more clout).


    Thousands do exactly the same thing.

    Overall, you sound like a typical human being. We are all different but
    similar in so many ways. I don't see any reason why you should be attacked
    in the way you describe from these reasons.

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Aug 31, 2009
    #6
  7. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:33:10 +0100, RedGrittyBrick
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >> Is there a way to do markup so that you get a default display if the
    >> page is not yet JSP-expanded? Must you periodically expand all web
    >> pages with JSP and capture them for offsite reading?

    >
    >I don't understand that.


    I have been pondering this as I fall asleep.

    I need to distribute my site in three forms:

    1. dynamic. The user just wants to read the page now on the browser.
    He is not interested in how the page was constructed. All comments and
    markup can be stripped. He just sees the final result of JSP
    processing. The page can be compacted, squeezing out all unneeded
    whitespace.

    2. offsite reading. This is like 1, but updates arrive via the
    Replicator. It will not be as dynamic. It only updates when the user
    does an update fetch with the Replicator.

    3. the original. This is the text I compose with, including comments,
    static (pre-upload) macros and JSP markup. It is not directly readable
    in a browser. I can optionally expand the static macros locally to
    view them, but I would need a local JSP engine to view the JSP
    expansions.

    I think the way to do this will be to distribute the three forms like
    this:

    1. via a JSP server than works on HTML with pre-expanded macros for
    non-time sensitive macros.

    2. Perhaps twice a day expand the entire website with JSP and capture
    the output, then untouch it to redate it back if it has not really
    changed, then prepare a the Replicator updates. This not as good as
    what I do now. Currently, the Replicator is always 100% up to date.
    see http://mindprod.com/webstart.html#REPLICATOR
    I can keep track of just which web pages need to be rebuilt. The
    problem is JSP will change pages very frequently with trivial changes
    that don't need to be tracked by the Replicator, e.g. quote of the
    day. Perhaps my JSP can be clever and generate more stable HTML for
    Replicator distribution.

    3. distribute the raw markup in a Subversion repository, but so I can
    more easily track changes, and so people can see how the web pages
    were constructed, without the overhead of the scaffoldings being sent
    out with every dynamic page.

    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability,"
    ~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72)
     
    Roedy Green, Aug 31, 2009
    #7
  8. On Aug 31, 9:05 am, "Qu0ll" <> wrote:
    > "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > I strenuously oppose the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. I most definitely
    > > do NOT support the troops. I explain why they are war criminals.

    >
    > I am not sure I would describe the troops as war criminals but you, me and
    > most of the world oppose the wars.
    >
    > > I think there was inside collusion in 9/11.

    >
    > So do many people.  I don't have enough information to come to a conclusion
    > either way.
    >
    > > I oppose "religious ceremonies" that involve whale sacrifice

    >
    > Surely most people do too.
    >
    > > I am gay

    >
    > Does anyone really care about that?  It's said that 10% of the world's
    > population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone else
    > is somewhere in between.
    >
    > > I have HIV

    >
    > Well that's unfortunate but hardly a reason for people to attack you.
    >
    > > I think our capitalist economic system needs some tweaking (I am a
    > > heretic).

    >
    > Obviously it does need some tweaking!
    >
    > > I gave general liberal values.

    >
    > So do at least half of the population.
    >
    > > I sometimes wrote scathing comments about computer hardware and
    > > software (not a problem now, but it was when I was a newspaper
    > > columnist with much more clout).

    >
    > Thousands do exactly the same thing.
    >
    > Overall, you sound like a typical human being.  We are all different but
    > similar in so many ways.  I don't see any reason why you should be attacked
    > in the way you describe from these reasons.


    He sounds like a sensible human being. Whether you consider that to be
    "typical" or not may depend on your level of trust in the human race.
    Mine is constantly dropping lately.

    Apart from that, Roedy definitely has something which is not typical:
    he writes freely about his convinctions on a public place which is
    supposedly visited by many people. I think that is admirable, but
    unfortunately it has the side effect of upsetting all kinds of random
    people which are offended by those who dare to think differently.
     
    Alessio Stalla, Aug 31, 2009
    #8
  9. Roedy Green

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Alessio Stalla" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    [...]

    >> Overall, you sound like a typical human being. We are all different but
    >> similar in so many ways. I don't see any reason why you should be
    >> attacked
    >> in the way you describe from these reasons.

    >
    > He sounds like a sensible human being. Whether you consider that to be
    > "typical" or not may depend on your level of trust in the human race.
    > Mine is constantly dropping lately.


    I have a lot of faith in the human race despite the best efforts of a number
    of people.

    > Apart from that, Roedy definitely has something which is not typical:
    > he writes freely about his convinctions on a public place which is
    > supposedly visited by many people. I think that is admirable, but
    > unfortunately it has the side effect of upsetting all kinds of random
    > people which are offended by those who dare to think differently.


    Ah yes, speaking out. Well, in the appropriate forum (and I stress that bit
    Roedy!), speaking out should not incite the kind of responses Roedy was
    describing. Having said that, there's a group of people whom react
    violently to anyone who dares to declare an opinion different from theirs in
    a public place. That's very unfortunate but I hope it doesn't discourage
    people like Roedy from expressing their passionate views (in the appropriate
    forum of course!).

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Aug 31, 2009
    #9
  10. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:05:54 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >> I oppose "religious ceremonies" that involve whale sacrifice

    >
    >Surely most people do too.


    not the Makah in nearby Washington state. Most of them consider any
    opposition to the killing as racism.

    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
    ~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 2, 2009
    #10
  11. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:05:54 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >> I am gay

    >
    >Does anyone really care about that? It's said that 10% of the world's
    >population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone else
    >is somewhere in between.


    It is more that I am openly and unapologetically gay, and I mock
    religious superstitions that people use to justify anti-gay bigotry.

    Anti-gay and pro-war tend to go together.

    Most of my attackers I would guess have IQs below 70. They behave a
    bit like the stereotypes in Deliverance.

    Partner is visiting family in Alabama. I'm assured these sorts of
    attitude are majority in that part of the world.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
    ~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 2, 2009
    #11
  12. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:05:54 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >Overall, you sound like a typical human being. We are all different but
    >similar in so many ways. I don't see any reason why you should be attacked
    >in the way you describe from these reasons.


    It is probably two things.


    1. I tend to state controversial ideas earlier than others. When I
    started gay lib, would guess 99% of people were opposed to me,
    including the gays. Now the things I said back then would sound
    conventional. My early works were later criticised for being too
    conservative.


    2. I write quite a bit. I write on a website so that people who are
    not looking for my sorts of statements, stumble on them. I write under
    my real name, a unique name easy to track down. People make more
    violent threats on the phone where they figure there would never be
    legal repercussions.

    A website is sort of chip on your shoulder you dare the rest of the
    world to knock off. If you say anything of consequence, there will be
    people willing to resort to any extreme (consider pro-choice
    assassinations) to shut them up.

    I am quite disappointed that Vista still requires security updates
    every week. I would have hoped that by now OSes would have been
    redesigned with very simple interfaces where the general public could
    potentially attack.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
    ~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 2, 2009
    #12
  13. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:49:48 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    > That's very unfortunate but I hope it doesn't discourage
    >people like Roedy from expressing their passionate views (in the appropriate
    >forum of course!).


    Attacking a website electronically is a form of vandalism, but it has
    higher caché. People who do it see it as a game of wits. If they
    win, you fully deserved to be silenced. The anonymity
    and unlikely prosecution somehow gives the crime greater
    respectability.

    As for phoning and writing threatening emails, it is a way of venting
    frustration with the entire world that refuses to agree with your
    world view. If people are really going to kill you, they are not about
    to warn you or provide any clues to the police.

    It is not just right-wingers who do this. I write the National
    Geographic, bawling them out whenever they put out creationism or
    Christian lore masquerading as science or history. I have never
    threatened violence, but I did cancel a gift subscription. They
    receive the brunt of my frustration with ALL fundamentalists. They are
    like a lightning rod for all phony science.

    In like manner, I am a lightning rod for people angry at gays,
    atheists, liberals, war protestors, bleeding hearts, foreigners,
    people who question the superiority and perfection of Americans...

    Looking at the bright side, I am well hardened by now. When the abuse
    comes at me, it does no damage. Had it gone to someone else unused to
    it, they could have been badly frightened. The criticism I get here in
    this newsgroup stings far more. Because it is usually well thought
    out, I can't just dismiss it.

    “The attempt to silence a man is the greatest honour you can bestow on
    him. It means that you recognise his superiority to yourself.”
    ~ Joseph Sobran
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
    ~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 2, 2009
    #13
  14. Roedy Green

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:05:54 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    > wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >
    >>> I am gay

    >>
    >>Does anyone really care about that? It's said that 10% of the world's
    >>population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone
    >>else
    >>is somewhere in between.

    >
    > It is more that I am openly and unapologetically gay, and I mock
    > religious superstitions that people use to justify anti-gay bigotry.
    >
    > Anti-gay and pro-war tend to go together.
    >
    > Most of my attackers I would guess have IQs below 70. They behave a
    > bit like the stereotypes in Deliverance.
    >
    > Partner is visiting family in Alabama. I'm assured these sorts of
    > attitude are majority in that part of the world.


    It all sounds terribly petty to me.

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Sep 2, 2009
    #14
  15. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 20:47:51 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >It all sounds terribly petty to me.


    I have often puzzled that humans feel most self-righteous when
    regulating the behaviour of others that has zero effect on them, e.g.
    sex, gay marriage, marijuana use, oral sex, contraception,
    pornography, the adultery of strangers, religious ceremonies...

    This is so weird, when you consider people do so many things that DO
    adversely affect each other.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
    ~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 2, 2009
    #15
  16. Roedy Green

    Neil Guest

    Regarding your technical question, if I need to copy a dynamic web
    site into HTML, I use wget on Linux to crawl the site and save it to a
    local folder. You can probably automate some scripts to do that for
    you.

    Regarding your problems with closed minded people, I am sorry you are
    getting so much trouble. I dont understand why people feel the need to
    pushish someone for having a counter-opinion

    --
    Neil Aggarwal, (281)846-8957, www.JAMMConsulting.com
    Will your e-commerce site go offline if you have
    a DB server failure, fiber cut, flood, fire, or other disaster?
    If so, ask about our geographically redundant database system.
     
    Neil, Sep 2, 2009
    #16
  17. Roedy Green

    Qu0ll Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 20:47:51 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    > wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >
    >>It all sounds terribly petty to me.

    >
    > I have often puzzled that humans feel most self-righteous when
    > regulating the behaviour of others that has zero effect on them, e.g.
    > sex, gay marriage, marijuana use, oral sex, contraception,
    > pornography, the adultery of strangers, religious ceremonies...
    >
    > This is so weird, when you consider people do so many things that DO
    > adversely affect each other.


    While I disagree with some of the views you hold Roedy, I will vehemently
    defend your right to have them.

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Sep 2, 2009
    #17
  18. On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:01:44 -0700, Neil wrote:

    > Regarding your technical question, if I need to copy a dynamic web site
    > into HTML, I use wget on Linux to crawl the site and save it to a local
    > folder. You can probably automate some scripts to do that for you.
    >

    wget also has Windows ports and is available as a Windows binary. See
    http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/ and look at the wget Wgiki for Windows
    and DOS downloads.

    > Regarding your problems with closed minded people, I am sorry you are
    > getting so much trouble. I dont understand why people feel the need to
    > punish someone for having a counter-opinion.
    >

    Doing that seems to provide some sort of security blanket for inadequate
    personalities.


    --
    martin@ | Martin Gregorie
    gregorie. | Essex, UK
    org |
     
    Martin Gregorie, Sep 2, 2009
    #18
  19. Roedy Green

    Tom Anderson Guest

    On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Roedy Green wrote:

    > On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:05:54 +1000, "Qu0ll" <>
    > wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >
    >>> I am gay

    >>
    >> Does anyone really care about that? It's said that 10% of the world's
    >> population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone else
    >> is somewhere in between.

    >
    > It is more that I am openly and unapologetically gay, and I mock
    > religious superstitions that people use to justify anti-gay bigotry.


    I know we're OT as **** now, but this is still funny:

    http://thedenverelement.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/gayMarriageChart-large.png

    I love that the counterpoint to (paraphrasing) "gay marriage debases the
    institution of marriage" is "Britney Spears".

    tom

    --
    Links are content.
     
    Tom Anderson, Sep 2, 2009
    #19
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