Offtopic: Google Groups users fight against spam.

D

Default User

James said:
It would be difficult, because Google often changes the format
in ways that make recognition difficult.

You're Firefox on Linux, right? The only plugin I see in cursory search
seems to be for Windows, so that wouldn't help you. I don't know
whether there are others available or not.

It's something you could look into if you got motivated enough.




Brian
 
R

REH

You're already accessing news groups via HTTP.  Whether you use the
Google servers, or some other site, seems like a distinction without a
difference.  The only down-side I see to rolling your own is the weekend
it would take to set up.

The distinction is my company's firewall only allows access to NTTP
over its officially assign port (119). Google is an HTTP server, which
my company allows over its officially assigned port (80). The content
is immaterial. Yes, if another HTTP server served up usenet I could
access it. What I cannot do is access a usenet server outside of my
company. Since there is no longer any company site with a usenet
server, I stuck with Google. I don't want another poor-man's usenet
like Google. I'd like to be able to use a real, full-featured usenet
client.

REH
 
J

James Kanze

The distinction is my company's firewall only allows access to
NTTP over its officially assign port (119). Google is an HTTP
server, which my company allows over its officially assigned
port (80). The content is immaterial. Yes, if another HTTP
server served up usenet I could access it. What I cannot do is
access a usenet server outside of my company. Since there is
no longer any company site with a usenet server, I stuck with
Google. I don't want another poor-man's usenet like Google.
I'd like to be able to use a real, full-featured usenet
client.

It's probably possible (and I suspect that Jeff was suggesting
something along these lines) to set up a simple HTTP server at
your home site, which serves more or less what you want in
groups, in a much simpler format than Google, and then set up a
demon at work which downloads everything from this server,
recreating the group structure in local directories. I think
most newsreaders can still read from a local disk (as if the
local machine was a server).

If you can feed your home machine as if it were a server, this
shouldn't be too difficult---I did it once (many years back),
using email as a transfer agent. My home machine was set up as
an NTPP "server", and did maintain an image of the groups I was
interested in. In addition, it had a demon which periodically
bundled an image of the directories into an email, and sent it
to my work address. Where a .forward script detected that
particular email, and installed the files where I wanted them on
the work machine. (And it only took a couple of hours to set
this up---once I had INEWS compiled, installed, and configured
correctly on my home machine.)

I'm not sure if this is workable today. Most newsnet providers
will probably not serve you as if you were a server, and
downloading a complete image as a client may be too complicated.
 
J

James Kanze

You're Firefox on Linux, right? The only plugin I see in
cursory search seems to be for Windows, so that wouldn't help
you. I don't know whether there are others available or not.
It's something you could look into if you got motivated enough.

Or had time. I use It's all text! generally, and that used to
work for Google Groups as well. (It still works for Google
Mail.)
 
R

REH

It's probably possible (and I suspect that Jeff was suggesting
something along these lines) to set up a simple HTTP server at
your home site, which serves more or less what you want in
groups, in a much simpler format than Google, and then set up a
demon at work which downloads everything from this server,
recreating the group structure in local directories.  I think
most newsreaders can still read from a local disk (as if the
local machine was a server).

If you can feed your home machine as if it were a server, this
shouldn't be too difficult---I did it once (many years back),
using email as a transfer agent.  My home machine was set up as
an NTPP "server", and did maintain an image of the groups I was
interested in.  In addition, it had a demon which periodically
bundled an image of the directories into an email, and sent it
to my work address.  Where a .forward script detected that
particular email, and installed the files where I wanted them on
the work machine.  (And it only took a couple of hours to set
this up---once I had INEWS compiled, installed, and configured
correctly on my home machine.)

I'm not sure if this is workable today.  Most newsnet providers
will probably not serve you as if you were a server, and
downloading a complete image as a client may be too complicated.

I know. What I've been trying to explain is my company doesn't allow
such things. You cannot even forward email from your home account to
work. I know there is not much difference between Google Groups and me
setting up my own server, but it is still against the rules. I like
usenet, but I like my job more. So, I obey the rules. People are also
trying to game the system by setting up proxy servers, attempting to
use anonymizers, etc. These people doesn't last very long. And in this
economy, and the fact that layoffs at my company are imminent, I don't
plan to rock the boat.

REH
 
A

Alf P. Steinbach

* REH:
What I've been trying to explain is my company doesn't allow
such things. You cannot even forward email from your home account to
work. ....
layoffs at my company are imminent

You didn't make that connection, I did, but it isn't really surprising.

What's surprising is that in Western society so many managers still manage to
make a living when they think the way to success is to restrict the employees,
especially wrt. communication, rather than to empower the employees.

I could understand it in a Taliban-ruled part of the world. I don't really
understand how it works in the West. But it seems that it does.


Cheers,

- Alf
 
R

REH

You didn't make that connection, I did, but it isn't really surprising.

What's surprising is that in Western society so many managers still manage to
make a living when they think the way to success is to restrict the employees,
especially wrt. communication, rather than to empower the employees.

I don't know what you are saying. Make what connection? Do you mean
the connection between my company's Internet policy and layoffs? There
is none. This policy has been in place since I've work here (10+
yrs.).

REH
 
L

Lionel B

To be fair, we're always being told that newsreaders hide the title away
somewhere inaccessible, meaning that we have to put the question in the
body of the post,

Errm, who told you that? Every newsreader I've ever used lists the
subject lines (threaded if that's what you want) and also displays them
at the top of the article you are reading. And yes, it is a highly
reasonable convention on usenet to use a brief, informative subject line
(that can be read at a glance in one short line in a header list) and
then to expand on the question in the article body.
and that the post we are replying to, instead of being
just up the screen,

.... except it's not necessarily "just up the screen", it may be waaay up
the screen, in a long thread.
is lurking somewhere not-easily-findable or possibly
has been junked altogether, requiring us to include suitably-quoted
parts of the post we are replying to in our own posts.

It makes complete sense to quote the part(s) of the article you are
replying to. Very frequently (if not usually) you are not replying to the
entire article but only selected portions. And in a multi-branched thread
with many posters, it is essential that you make it clear exactly to
what, and to whom, you are replying.
To then turn
round and say that GG has no benefits over these newsreaders seems a bit
having-it-both-ways.

Have you ever actually used a proper newsreader? If so, which one?
 
M

Michael Doubez

It's probably possible (and I suspect that Jeff was suggesting
something along these lines) to set up a simple HTTP server at
your home site, which serves more or less what you want in
groups, in a much simpler format than Google, and then set up a
demon at work which downloads everything from this server,
recreating the group structure in local directories.  I think
most newsreaders can still read from a local disk (as if the
local machine was a server).

If you can feed your home machine as if it were a server, this
shouldn't be too difficult---I did it once (many years back),
using email as a transfer agent.  My home machine was set up as
an NTPP "server", and did maintain an image of the groups I was
interested in.  In addition, it had a demon which periodically
bundled an image of the directories into an email, and sent it
to my work address.  Where a .forward script detected that
particular email, and installed the files where I wanted them on
the work machine.  (And it only took a couple of hours to set
this up---once I had INEWS compiled, installed, and configured
correctly on my home machine.)

I'm not sure if this is workable today.  Most newsnet providers
will probably not serve you as if you were a server, and
downloading a complete image as a client may be too complicated.

The only workable alternative I see is to set up an HTTP server at
home that accepts ssh CONNECT command and create an SSH tunnel through
the HTTP-proxy. Once you have a ssh-tunnel, the Internet is yours: you
simply assign local port to distant port as if you were at home. I
guess there would be some timeout issues depending on the proxy's
configuration but it shouldn't be a bother, you don't check news and
mail all the time.

The biggest problem being that the administrator is not likely to
appreciate.
 
C

consumer

I noticed thespamin c.l.c++ has been getting really intense
recently.

If you useGoogleGroupsto read the newsgroup, view the message and
click "More Options" in the top right corner, then "Report This
Message" and report is asspam. Even if you just report one every time
you view the group, it probably helps.

With luck, if enough messages from the same addresses are reported, it
will raise some red flags andGooglewill add them to thespam
filters.

For another side of this problem, Google *does* have agreements/
contracts
with Google Groups users. Naturally, it is several pages long.

It would be sweet revenge if we could show Google doesn't
give a hoot about these agreements.

Entire agreement copied below.

Best wishes,

David Bernier
=======================================

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V

Victor Bazarov

consumer said:
I noticed thespamin c.l.c++ has been getting really intense
recently.

If you useGoogleGroupsto read the newsgroup, view the message and
click "More Options" in the top right corner, then "Report This
Message" and report is asspam. Even if you just report one every time
you view the group, it probably helps.

With luck, if enough messages from the same addresses are reported, it
will raise some red flags andGooglewill add them to thespam
filters.

For another side of this problem, Google *does* have agreements/
contracts
with Google Groups users. Naturally, it is several pages long.

It would be sweet revenge if we could show Google doesn't
give a hoot about these agreements.

Entire agreement copied below.

Best wishes,

David Bernier
=======================================

Welcome to Google Groups, owned and operated by Google Inc.
("Google"). By using the Google Groups service (the "Service"), you
accept and agree to be bound by the following terms and conditions
(the "Terms of Service"). Nothing in the Terms of Service should be
construed to confer any rights to third party beneficiaries.
[..]

"Google's Rights. You acknowledge that Google does not pre-screen,
control, edit or endorse Content made available through the Service
and has no obligation to monitor the Content Posted via the Service.
If Google discovers Content that does not appear to conform to the
^^ ^^^^^^^^^
Terms of Service, Google may investigate and determine in good faith
^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and in its sole discretion whether to remove the Content. Google will
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
have no liability or responsibility for performance or non-performance
^^^^^^^^^^^^
of such activities. You acknowledge that certain Groups available
through the Service are available only through the Service and others
are available both through the Service and other sources, such as
Usenet, over which Google has absolutely no control."

IOW, no promises. You agree not to post, but no responsibility lies
with Google for cleaning spam up.

V
 
D

David Bernier

Victor said:
consumer said:
I noticed thespamin c.l.c++ has been getting really intense
recently.

If you useGoogleGroupsto read the newsgroup, view the message and
click "More Options" in the top right corner, then "Report This
Message" and report is asspam. Even if you just report one every time
you view the group, it probably helps.

With luck, if enough messages from the same addresses are reported, it
will raise some red flags andGooglewill add them to thespam
filters.

For another side of this problem, Google *does* have agreements/
contracts
with Google Groups users. Naturally, it is several pages long.

It would be sweet revenge if we could show Google doesn't
give a hoot about these agreements.

Entire agreement copied below.

Best wishes,

David Bernier
=======================================

Welcome to Google Groups, owned and operated by Google Inc.
("Google"). By using the Google Groups service (the "Service"), you
accept and agree to be bound by the following terms and conditions
(the "Terms of Service"). Nothing in the Terms of Service should be
construed to confer any rights to third party beneficiaries.
[..]

"Google's Rights. You acknowledge that Google does not pre-screen,
control, edit or endorse Content made available through the Service
and has no obligation to monitor the Content Posted via the Service.
If Google discovers Content that does not appear to conform to the
^^ ^^^^^^^^^
Terms of Service, Google may investigate and determine in good faith
^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and in its sole discretion whether to remove the Content. Google will
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
have no liability or responsibility for performance or non-performance
^^^^^^^^^^^^
of such activities. You acknowledge that certain Groups available
through the Service are available only through the Service and others
are available both through the Service and other sources, such as
Usenet, over which Google has absolutely no control."

IOW, no promises. You agree not to post, but no responsibility lies
with Google for cleaning spam up.

Yes, Google hasn't much responsibilities, although posters retain
a copyright on what they post.

"1. Description of Service"
The Service [...]
allows Chinese spammers to spam at will [...]
</ spoof >.

David Bernier
 

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