L
Leif K-Brooks
(PeteCresswell) said:
Is file:////dev/null worth using? Yes, definitely.
(Hint: we need to know the address.)
Is file:////dev/null worth using? Yes, definitely.
(Hint: we need to know the address.)
J
jake
Possibly.In message said:
E
Els
(PeteCresswell) said:
Figures <g>
P
(PeteCresswell)
This is a commercial site - one that I have no connection whatsoever with.
After reading this group for awhile, it's pretty clear that what's on the
surface doesn't always match what's underneath in terms of quality.
The reason I'm soliciting opinions is that, to me-the-dumb-user, it seems like
such an excellant site in that it gives me what I expect when I expect it - and
in a manner that I can grasp immediately.
Is this site worth using as a development model by a noob?
After reading this group for awhile, it's pretty clear that what's on the
surface doesn't always match what's underneath in terms of quality.
The reason I'm soliciting opinions is that, to me-the-dumb-user, it seems like
such an excellant site in that it gives me what I expect when I expect it - and
in a manner that I can grasp immediately.
Is this site worth using as a development model by a noob?
A
Andy Dingley
In a world where we didn't listen to the crap spouted by Nielsen, this
would be seen as an excellent site. It's Amazon-like -- the page is
dense, and everything that possibly could take you somewhere when
clicked on, takes you there.
If you like this, read Paco Underhill's "Why We Buy"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684849143/codesmiths-20>
As a site, this one has clear goals, sensible goals, and it implements
them in a thorough and rational manner (I didn't go as far as the basket
/ checkout)..
As to the implemementation, then that's a bit sucky. It could be better,
and it could be better in a way that enhanced the basic aims, rather
than fighting with them. They could make better use of width, for one
thing.
There are also a few database issues that could be better, if anyone
cared (a _leading_ retailer is one where there are people who both care
about these details, and can have them sorted). Browsing for "Airport
safe steel free" boots shouldn't necessarily bring up plastic beachwear
as its first offering. It's _correct_, but it's not _helpful_.
Some of the product information is well hidden. There's a category for
"Made in the USA", but it's hard to find this for a product you're
already looking at.
Overall though, this site is going to get slated in this newsgroup by
some pinhead whining about a doctype (customers don't know what doctypes
are). However as a selling site, it's one of the better ones and
certainly worth studying.
P
(PeteCresswell)
L
Leif K-Brooks
(PeteCresswell) said:
On the positive side:
- Works fairly well at higher-than-default font sizes.
On the negative side:
- Too crowded (my eyes dart everywhere; I can't focus on any one part of
the page).
- Fixed-width (I have a large browser window out of choice; respect
that).
- Cursor put in search box automatically on page load, which can
stop me from using search-as-you-type.
- Nearly unusable in a text browser.
- The server-side image map in the header, in addition to making the
page inaccessible in non-visual browsers, hides the URLs of links
until they're clicked.
- And once again: too crowded!
D
dorayme
From: Andy Dingley said:
I agree, and nicely put.
Well, they could have used *more* of the width given they have images and it
needs a fair bit. It sure loads quick on dial up here and all tables eh? I
would like to see it done in purer CSS and have the same stability, if it
could be I would say it would need a very high degree of skill - that most
designers, given the browser support and the available standards of CSS,
would not have.
I did not get this? I got what it should get.
I agree it is good, not sure you can *learn* anything much from it though.
What would you learn? You would get inspiration: "It can be done, lots of
info and presentation and pics on each page. Nice looking. Fast loading.
Good search facilities. Lots of navigation links..." Maybe you can learn
things from studying the site with intelligence and help from knowledgeable
and fair teachers. But just looking at it and the code? Not sure... But I
liked it. Maybe I like looking at shoes and handbags too much!
dorayme
H
Henry
Leif said:
Agree...
Fast loading page.
Yes and no. I do amire the way that page is designed. Very logical well
organized.
The most people with monitors 19" and higher are using IE as a smaller
window (not at full screen) and often Favorites are on left hand side.
Fixed width is still the most preferable IMHO.
What a fault! OMG.
Correct and perfecty OK. The page based on pictures anyway.
The page based on pictures anyway.
It could be more white space but you would have scroll heavier.
I do prefer as is.
IMHO perfect web site for that purpose.
I would suugest to find a different site which is selling shoes and post
the link here for evaluation.
D
dorayme
From: Leif K-Brooks said:
I am not meaning to be too critical of your remark here. I understand it.
But part of me wants to say: "Ah but it is the crowded, full range of the
display that is appealing!" Like going into a nice fruit shop. They fill it
up to make it look nice, plentiful, rows and rows of this and that.
Appealing. Same with cake shops and displays. I complain to them as a joke
sometimes that it is unfair, I can't focus, everything looks good! The point
is really that something valuable and interesting would be lost without the
crowded look.
You saying it is too crowded reminds me of the criticism levelled at Mozart
for one of his operas in the film, Amadeus: "Too many notes!" suggested an
adviser to the Duke who was uncomfortable about something or other but could
not quite say what...
Well, fair enough on the one hand... but on the other, maybe it does help to
"focus" a bit...
dorayme
M
me
(PeteCresswell) said:
Oohh well,
As you are busy commenting sites and giving tips, I also want to take the
chance to get drowned in critics.
Please remember, my site is made by myself as a private hobby homepage and I
do not have any training in websites. And I also have limited time to work
on it.
I will be happy with any constructive comments that can help me improve my
page...... as long as you don't laugh to much about me ;-)
This is my URL:
http://members.home.nl/ww2propaganda/
See if you find the time to have a look.
Hans
L
Leif K-Brooks
dorayme said:
Fruit shops may be crowded, but they're still orderly: neat, clean
looking more-or-less straight rows. On the other hand, the page in
question doesn't just look crowded; it looks disorderly.
This is a good fruit shop:
----------------------------------------------------------------
| Apples | Grapes | Avocadoes |
|oooooooooooooooooooo|....................|00000000000000000000|
|oooooooooooooooooooo|....................|00000000000000000000|
|oooooooooooooooooooo|....................|00000000000000000000|
|oooooooooooooooooooo|....................|00000000000000000000|
|oooooooooooooooooooo|....................|00000000000000000000|
|oooooooooooooooooooo|....................|00000000000000000000|
----------------------------------------------------------------
And this is a bad fruit shop:
----------------------------------------------------------------
| Apples and grapes and avocadoes |
|00oo.0o0...ooo00o00ooo0o..o.0.oo.o0oo0.o0o..0o.00.oo0oo.00.00.|
|00000.0.oooo.o.0.o0..0.0.ooo.o0.0...oo000.00o0o0ooo..o00o0o0oo|
|o0.0000..o0o..0ooo..0ooo0o..00MoNkEy!!!00....0o.0o0o.oo.000o.o|
|0o.o..0o....0o0____o000o0.0o0.oo0o.o0.ooooooo0ooo.o.000o00..oo|
|0.0o.0o0o00o.oo|--|.0o.00..o.00o00.0o.o0oo0.0000..00o...0.0..o|
|o...o.o0oo00oo0.o.0.0.00.0..oo00000oo.0ooo.0oo.0.....oo00ooo.o|
----------------------------------------------------------------
E
Els
Leif said:
May I just borrow this example to say how much I hate the 'layout' of
the new supermarket here? It looks like this:
(x=vegetable y=another vegetable)
---------------------
|Fruit and Vegetables |
|ooo...oooxxx000yyy...|
| ooo...ooooxxxyyy....|
|ooo...000xxxxxyyy....|
|..ooo000......xxxxooo|
|...oooxxx...xxxxxoooo|
|..oooxxxyyyy00000oooo|
---------------------
The area is smaller than in the other examples, as this is only one
side of a 4 sided isle, and there are 4 (or 6?) isles in the fruit and
veggie section.
When I'm in the supermarket, I want the first example, which is how it
used to be. All different apples on one side of the isle, all citric
fruits on the other side, avocados and grapes on the third isle,
between melons and strawberries...
K
kchayka
Leif said:
I agree. Too many different colors, too many different things crammed in
"above the fold" vying for attention at once. It lacks balance and
focus. When I first loaded the page, I didn't know where to look, but my
first reaction was to block out most of the graphics as advertising
banner spam.
M
me
me said:
btw, I am also interested in how things look under other browser than my
ie6....
Hans
L
Leif K-Brooks
me said:
Looks like 1997.
S
Spartanicus
J
JT
PeteCresswell wrote:
: Is this site worth using as a development model by a noob?:
Yes, the site looks fine by me and no doubt also for those who arrive there
looking for shoes.
: Is this site worth using as a development model by a noob?:
Yes, the site looks fine by me and no doubt also for those who arrive there
looking for shoes.
D
dorayme
From: Leif K-Brooks said:
Leif K-Brookes! This is a very good reply! It has cheered me up for the day,
it looks so miserable out there... Your good fruit shop looks very nice
indeed... And your bad one is very bad indeed.
But, perhaps a fair minded observer would incline to say the site in
question is not as disorganised as your "bad fruit shop". I admire efforts
to achieve order without so much neatness, I like it when some people are
able to embrace more complex order. I guess, bottom line, I don't think it
so disorganised.
dorayme
D
Dan
Henry said:
A flexible-width site will accommodate these people, as well as those
who use full-screen browsers. What's wrong with that?
I hate sites that "force" cursor focus like that; sometimes I'm
starting to type in the address bar or a form field before the site has
finished loading, and then it's annoying when the cursor suddenly jumps
somewhere else due to some idiot JavaScript.