Packing JRE

Discussion in 'Java' started by Bender, Dec 22, 2004.

  1. Bender

    Bender Guest

    Can anyone tell me how to package a JRE with my JAR application?

    Thanks
     
    Bender, Dec 22, 2004
    #1
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  2. On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:19:01 GMT, Bender wrote:

    > Can anyone tell me how to package a JRE with my JAR application?


    Why? How do you intend to deploy your application?
    Off CD(1)? Off the net(2)?

    1) you would simply include the latest JRE on the CD.
    2) you would point the user to Sun.

    But then there is the lesser followed route of creating a
    not-cross platform '.exe' of your Jar file.
    <http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#exe>

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 22, 2004
    #2
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  3. Bender

    Bender Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:19:01 GMT, Bender wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Can anyone tell me how to package a JRE with my JAR application?

    >
    >
    > Why? How do you intend to deploy your application?
    > Off CD(1)? Off the net(2)?
    >
    > 1) you would simply include the latest JRE on the CD.
    > 2) you would point the user to Sun.
    >
    > But then there is the lesser followed route of creating a
    > not-cross platform '.exe' of your Jar file.
    > <http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#exe>
    >


    I am distributing it over the net. I was hoping to keep the user from
    downloading the JRE for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe'
    version.
     
    Bender, Dec 22, 2004
    #3
  4. On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:05:24 GMT, Bender wrote:

    ....
    > I am distributing it over the net. I was hoping to keep the user from
    > downloading the JRE


    Many people already have them (even Windows users).

    Even better, when a new, faster, better JRE becomes available
    (and is automatically updated on the client-side), your app.
    gains those benefits.

    >..for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe' version.


    In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    more sense to develop it in .NET. OTOH, given the code
    is already written, the links from the document I mentioned
    earlier should give you an idea of your options.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 22, 2004
    #4
  5. Bender

    Son KwonNam Guest

    Use Install Anywhere.
    It can make .exe for your application with/without JRE.

    http://www.zerog.com


    Bender wrote:
    > Can anyone tell me how to package a JRE with my JAR application?
    >
    > Thanks
     
    Son KwonNam, Dec 22, 2004
    #5
  6. Bender

    IINET Guest

    re:
    In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    more sense to develop it in .NET.

    Why - just becasue it is only for windows does not rule out java
    automatically? Why suddenly switch to a whole other platform becasue it is
    not intended for anything other than windows? Java runs on windows - so what
    if it runs many other places too?




    "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message
    news:1tr1l563oyt6q$.12nv67jla9h76$...
    > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:05:24 GMT, Bender wrote:
    >
    > ...
    >> I am distributing it over the net. I was hoping to keep the user from
    >> downloading the JRE

    >
    > Many people already have them (even Windows users).
    >
    > Even better, when a new, faster, better JRE becomes available
    > (and is automatically updated on the client-side), your app.
    > gains those benefits.
    >
    >>..for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe' version.

    >
    > In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    > more sense to develop it in .NET. OTOH, given the code
    > is already written, the links from the document I mentioned
    > earlier should give you an idea of your options.
    >
    > --
    > Andrew Thompson
    > http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    > http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    > http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    > http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    IINET, Dec 22, 2004
    #6
  7. Bender wrote:
    > Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:19:01 GMT, Bender wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Can anyone tell me how to package a JRE with my JAR application?

    > >
    > >
    > > Why? How do you intend to deploy your application?
    > > Off CD(1)? Off the net(2)?
    > >
    > > 1) you would simply include the latest JRE on the CD.
    > > 2) you would point the user to Sun.
    > >
    > > But then there is the lesser followed route of creating a
    > > not-cross platform '.exe' of your Jar file.
    > > <http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#exe>
    > >

    >
    > I am distributing it over the net. I was hoping to keep the user

    from
    > downloading the JRE for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe'
    > version.




    Honestly, I would recommend skipping the unified installer and use Java
    WebStart. It gives you all the advantages of a windows installer plus
    automatic updates.

    Plus, once a person has one JRE with WebStart installed, it will
    automatically update their JRE if you shift forward with your app too.
     
    Robert kebernet Cooper, Dec 22, 2004
    #7
  8. On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:10:38 +0800, IINET wrote:

    Please note how I 'in-line post with trimming' to your post,
    and please adopt that posting style in future.
    <http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#netiquette>

    > "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message
    > news:1tr1l563oyt6q$.12nv67jla9h76$...
    >> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:05:24 GMT, Bender wrote:
    >> ...
    >>> I am distributing it over the net. I was hoping to keep the user from
    >>> downloading the JRE ..
    >>>..for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe' version.

    >>
    >> In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    >> more sense to develop it in .NET. ..

    ...
    > Why -


    I'm glad you asked.

    ..NET is Win oriented. The layouts could be simpler for
    the direct reason of not having to support a vast variety of
    fonts, font sizes and PLAF's. I imagine the .NET IDE would
    also have a D'n'D GUI editor, which would also speed development
    over the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI.

    It would be much easier in .NET to display/edit common MS
    document formats such as .doc, .xls, to get the 'OS Component',
    and actively control it.

    It would be much simpler to get into the guts of the OS and system.
    ( For instance, .NET might even have the -advanced- ability to tell
    you the free space on a physical drive. ;)

    Applications deployment could also be more streamlined.

    Of course, all that is purely speculative, in the category
    of 'if MS had *not* done that, they would be complete idiots'.

    >...just becasue it is only for windows does not rule out java
    > automatically?


    No, it does not. I generally encourage X-plat in any case.
    Just because it needs to run on Windows, does not mean it
    *cannot* be X-plat.

    >..Why suddenly switch to a whole other platform becasue it is
    > not intended for anything other than windows?


    It would completely depend on factors not yet known, but
    depending on the size of the application, it is something
    that should be considered if the app. is truly to be 'Win only'*.

    Besides, you have to weigh that against the downside of
    making a Win .exe from a Java jar file, as detailed at the
    link I provided to creating an 'exe'.

    If you add that overhead to your Java development costs,
    it may tip the balance in favor of development in .NET.

    * One of the most important of the questions is 'Why Win only?'
    [ And noting that an answer of 'we only run Win' is not in
    itself sufficient, given time's nature of changing things. ]

    >..Java runs on windows - so what
    > if it runs many other places too?


    Good point. Dump the idea of the EXE, and educate the users
    about Java. ..Which even runs on Windows. ;-)

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 22, 2004
    #8
  9. Bender

    Steve Sobol Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:

    >>..for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe' version.

    >
    > In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    > more sense to develop it in .NET.


    Andrew,

    That's just plain silly.

    I don't think as many people have a Java2 RE as you might think.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
     
    Steve Sobol, Dec 22, 2004
    #9
  10. Bender

    IINET Guest

    re:
    it makes
    more sense to develop it in .NET

    The reccomendation was really my issue here - you do not know this posters
    situation, yet made this assumption.

    you do not know if he is skilled in both platforms.

    If the cost to switch is worthwhile for given the benefits to the app.

    If win can offer anything java cannot for this app.

    If the app will EVER need to be ported to other OS's

    and so on...

    Oh, and lets not forget the poster has already written the app in Java.

    So, the slightly silly "it makes more sense to do it in .NET" statement was
    not very sensible to me.




    "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message
    news:1lv2r3h5vt3ug$.1w10o7xxechb3$...
    > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:10:38 +0800, IINET wrote:
    >
    > Please note how I 'in-line post with trimming' to your post,
    > and please adopt that posting style in future.
    > <http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#netiquette>
    >
    >> "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message
    >> news:1tr1l563oyt6q$.12nv67jla9h76$...
    >>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:05:24 GMT, Bender wrote:
    >>> ...
    >>>> I am distributing it over the net. I was hoping to keep the user from
    >>>> downloading the JRE ..
    >>>>..for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe' version.
    >>>
    >>> In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    >>> more sense to develop it in .NET. ..

    > ..
    >> Why -

    >
    > I'm glad you asked.
    >
    > .NET is Win oriented. The layouts could be simpler for
    > the direct reason of not having to support a vast variety of
    > fonts, font sizes and PLAF's. I imagine the .NET IDE would
    > also have a D'n'D GUI editor, which would also speed development
    > over the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI.
    >
    > It would be much easier in .NET to display/edit common MS
    > document formats such as .doc, .xls, to get the 'OS Component',
    > and actively control it.
    >
    > It would be much simpler to get into the guts of the OS and system.
    > ( For instance, .NET might even have the -advanced- ability to tell
    > you the free space on a physical drive. ;)
    >
    > Applications deployment could also be more streamlined.
    >
    > Of course, all that is purely speculative, in the category
    > of 'if MS had *not* done that, they would be complete idiots'.
    >
    >>...just becasue it is only for windows does not rule out java
    >> automatically?

    >
    > No, it does not. I generally encourage X-plat in any case.
    > Just because it needs to run on Windows, does not mean it
    > *cannot* be X-plat.
    >
    >>..Why suddenly switch to a whole other platform becasue it is
    >> not intended for anything other than windows?

    >
    > It would completely depend on factors not yet known, but
    > depending on the size of the application, it is something
    > that should be considered if the app. is truly to be 'Win only'*.
    >
    > Besides, you have to weigh that against the downside of
    > making a Win .exe from a Java jar file, as detailed at the
    > link I provided to creating an 'exe'.
    >
    > If you add that overhead to your Java development costs,
    > it may tip the balance in favor of development in .NET.
    >
    > * One of the most important of the questions is 'Why Win only?'
    > [ And noting that an answer of 'we only run Win' is not in
    > itself sufficient, given time's nature of changing things. ]
    >
    >>..Java runs on windows - so what
    >> if it runs many other places too?

    >
    > Good point. Dump the idea of the EXE, and educate the users
    > about Java. ..Which even runs on Windows. ;-)
    >
    > --
    > Andrew Thompson
    > http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    > http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    > http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    > http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    IINET, Dec 22, 2004
    #10
  11. On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:15:10 -0800, Steve Sobol wrote:

    > Andrew Thompson wrote:


    (Bender)
    >>>..for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe' version.

    >>
    >> In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    >> more sense to develop it in .NET.

    >
    > Andrew,
    >
    > That's just plain silly.
    >
    > I don't think as many people have a Java2 RE as you might think.


    In what way did your statement correlate to what you quoted?

    How many Win users do you think *I think* have Java?

    I cannot make much sense of your statements.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 22, 2004
    #11
  12. Bender

    Steve Sobol Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:

    > In what way did your statement correlate to what you quoted?


    Heh. I didn't express myself very well, now did I. Sorry.

    Let's try this again.

    "In that case, if you only require windows support, it makes
    more sense to develop [your application] in .NET" than it does to just bundle a
    JRE with your application? That was the comment I was referring to as "just
    silly." Even if you *are* developing only for Windows, to switch to another
    language/development platform *only* for the purpose of easily building an
    executable doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Furthermore, quoting another one
    of your replies in this thread,

    ".NET is Win oriented. The layouts could be simpler for
    the direct reason of not having to support a vast variety of
    fonts, font sizes and PLAF's."

    But you don't have to with Java, either. Either use the Windows L&F on Swing,
    or (IMHO a better choice) use the Standard Widget Toolkit.

    "I imagine the .NET IDE would
    also have a D'n'D GUI editor, which would also speed development
    over the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI."

    I use Eclipse and Jigloo and see the same benefits. People running NetBeans can
    also use DnD.

    "It would be much easier in .NET to display/edit common MS
    document formats such as .doc, .xls, to get the 'OS Component',
    and actively control it."

    I doubt it. Maybe a little easier. You can embed ActiveX objects in a Java app
    running on Windows, can't you? (I could be wrong about this; have never tried it)

    "Besides, you have to weigh that against the downside of
    making a Win .exe from a Java jar file, as detailed at the
    link I provided to creating an 'exe'."

    Or not - you can create a separate EXE and still package the JARs separately,
    and there is at least one Java install builder that'll do this.

    > How many Win users do you think *I think* have Java?


    You said "many". I'm saying "still relatively few", and I apologize, that
    should have been a completely separate statement as it was not directly
    relevant to my comment about your reply being silly.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
     
    Steve Sobol, Dec 22, 2004
    #12
  13. On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:55:33 -0800, Steve Sobol wrote:

    > Andrew Thompson wrote:

    ....
    > "I imagine the .NET IDE would
    > also have a D'n'D GUI editor, which would also speed development
    > over the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI."
    >
    > I use Eclipse and Jigloo and see the same benefits. People running NetBeans can
    > also use DnD.


    Using what Layouts though? AbsoluteLayout? XYLayout?

    It brings us to the basic problem that when you shift the
    application from the development machine to a machine with a
    different RE, fonts, screen size, PLAF, the UI breaks.

    If you use a D'n'D GUI designer (using PutItHere layouts) you
    effectively lose the X-plat GUI in any case.

    > "It would be much easier in .NET to display/edit common MS
    > document formats such as .doc, .xls, to get the 'OS Component',
    > and actively control it."
    >
    > I doubt it. Maybe a little easier. You can embed ActiveX objects in a Java app
    > running on Windows, can't you? (I could be wrong about this; have never tried it)


    ? News to me. I have no need to get that intimate with Windows.
    ...
    >> How many Win users do you think *I think* have Java?

    >
    > You said "many".


    Of course, when I said 'many', I meant 'many, plus or minus 25%'. ;-)

    >..I'm saying "still relatively few",


    + or -..?

    >...and I apologize,


    It's cool.

    >..that
    > should have been a completely separate statement as it was not directly
    > relevant to my comment about your reply being silly.


    It did read rather oddly.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 22, 2004
    #13
  14. Bender

    Steve Sobol Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > Using what Layouts though? AbsoluteLayout? XYLayout?


    I used to use AbsoluteLayout, then I got smart; now I use GridLayout and
    FormLayout (FormLayout may be an SWT-specific thing).


    > Of course, when I said 'many', I meant 'many, plus or minus 25%'. ;-)
    >
    >>..I'm saying "still relatively few",

    >
    > + or -..?


    Oh, I don't know, 100%? (*pained expression*)

    Winbloats PCs don't ship with the J2 RE yet. When that starts happening,* I'm
    sure the number will increase significantly.

    Cheers...


    *insert obligatory "yeah, right" here, followed by standard rant about
    anticompetitive Microsoft bulls^H^H^H^H^Hcompany policies.


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
     
    Steve Sobol, Dec 23, 2004
    #14
  15. On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:00:07 -0800, Steve Sobol wrote:

    > Winbloats PCs don't ship with the J2 RE yet. When that starts happening,...


    I vote 'not ever'. Java is a plug-in that needs to be kept up to date.
    Install an OS/browser bare and get Java from the manufacturer.
    <http://www.physci.org/codes/java/plugin.jsp>

    It's up to you, me and other Java developers to convince users
    of the need for the Java plug-in, by producing all those wonderful
    apps. that have the 'Requires the free Java Plug-In' message below
    the glossy picture.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 23, 2004
    #15
  16. Andrew Thompson <> wrote in
    news:5b914vq68gln.1lf97nlmk95ph$:

    > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:55:33 -0800, Steve Sobol wrote:
    >
    >> Andrew Thompson wrote:

    > ...
    >> "I imagine the .NET IDE would
    >> also have a D'n'D GUI editor, which would also speed development
    >> over the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI."
    >>
    >> I use Eclipse and Jigloo and see the same benefits. People running
    >> NetBeans can also use DnD.

    >
    > Using what Layouts though? AbsoluteLayout? XYLayout?
    >
    > It brings us to the basic problem that when you shift the
    > application from the development machine to a machine with a
    > different RE, fonts, screen size, PLAF, the UI breaks.
    >
    > If you use a D'n'D GUI designer (using PutItHere layouts) you
    > effectively lose the X-plat GUI in any case.

    [snip]

    I think your prejudices are showing through here.

    Eclipse and JBuilder both, from my personal experience, support "D'n'D"
    GUI designers using a full range of java layouts. There is, of course,
    no requirement for a programmer to use them -- but then you can write bad
    code without a "D'n'D" GUI designer, too.

    I'm sure there are others, like NetBeans, that do it, as well.

    I'd be surprised if "the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI"
    was the norm, anymore. However that's merely exposing MY prejudice
    against hand coding GUIs.

    Chas Douglass
     
    Chas Douglass, Dec 23, 2004
    #16
  17. Bender

    IINET Guest

    re:
    Eclipse and JBuilder both, from my personal experience, support "D'n'D"
    GUI designers using a full range of java layouts.

    Not sure what personal expereinces you've had here, but DnD gui development
    is most definitely not a strength of eclipse - in fact, it is infamous for
    its poor support here. Are you sure thats what you meant to say? Netbeans is
    the one with the support here, not eclipse - not by a long shot!



    "Chas Douglass" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns95C7D0E1515B5cdouglasoznet@216.168.3.30...
    > Andrew Thompson <> wrote in
    > news:5b914vq68gln.1lf97nlmk95ph$:
    >
    >> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:55:33 -0800, Steve Sobol wrote:
    >>
    >>> Andrew Thompson wrote:

    >> ...
    >>> "I imagine the .NET IDE would
    >>> also have a D'n'D GUI editor, which would also speed development
    >>> over the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI."
    >>>
    >>> I use Eclipse and Jigloo and see the same benefits. People running
    >>> NetBeans can also use DnD.

    >>
    >> Using what Layouts though? AbsoluteLayout? XYLayout?
    >>
    >> It brings us to the basic problem that when you shift the
    >> application from the development machine to a machine with a
    >> different RE, fonts, screen size, PLAF, the UI breaks.
    >>
    >> If you use a D'n'D GUI designer (using PutItHere layouts) you
    >> effectively lose the X-plat GUI in any case.

    > [snip]
    >
    > I think your prejudices are showing through here.
    >
    > Eclipse and JBuilder both, from my personal experience, support "D'n'D"
    > GUI designers using a full range of java layouts. There is, of course,
    > no requirement for a programmer to use them -- but then you can write bad
    > code without a "D'n'D" GUI designer, too.
    >
    > I'm sure there are others, like NetBeans, that do it, as well.
    >
    > I'd be surprised if "the general Java approach of hand coding the GUI"
    > was the norm, anymore. However that's merely exposing MY prejudice
    > against hand coding GUIs.
    >
    > Chas Douglass
    >
    >
    >
     
    IINET, Dec 23, 2004
    #17
  18. Robert kebernet Cooper wrote:

    > Bender wrote:
    >
    >>Andrew Thompson wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:19:01 GMT, Bender wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Can anyone tell me how to package a JRE with my JAR application?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Why? How do you intend to deploy your application?
    >>>Off CD(1)? Off the net(2)?
    >>>
    >>>1) you would simply include the latest JRE on the CD.
    >>>2) you would point the user to Sun.
    >>>
    >>>But then there is the lesser followed route of creating a
    >>>not-cross platform '.exe' of your Jar file.
    >>><http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#exe>
    >>>

    >>I am distributing it over the net. I was hoping to keep the user

    >
    > from
    >
    >>downloading the JRE for a Windows version, i.e. - releasing an 'exe'
    >>version.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Honestly, I would recommend skipping the unified installer and use Java
    > WebStart. It gives you all the advantages of a windows installer plus
    > automatic updates.
    >
    > Plus, once a person has one JRE with WebStart installed, it will
    > automatically update their JRE if you shift forward with your app too.
    >

    I was wondering when someone was going to post a smart answer like this.
     
    The Abrasive Sponge, Dec 23, 2004
    #18
  19. On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:24:50 -0700, The Abrasive Sponge wrote:

    > Robert kebernet Cooper wrote:
    >
    >> Bender wrote:
    >>
    >>>Andrew Thompson wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:19:01 GMT, Bender wrote:

    ....
    >>>>But then there is the lesser followed route of creating a
    >>>>not-cross platform '.exe' of your Jar file.
    >>>><http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#exe>

    ...
    >> Honestly, I would recommend skipping the unified installer and use Java
    >> WebStart.

    ....
    > I was wondering when someone was going to post a smart answer like this.


    I've been wonderring when anyone in this thread will read the
    link that I quoted above.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
     
    Andrew Thompson, Dec 23, 2004
    #19
  20. Bender

    Guest

    Andrew Thompson <> wrote:
    > http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#exe


    I'm not sure I entirely agree with all the points made in the section
    you linked. For example:

    > You lose 'free' upgrades to your program. Anytime your user
    > downloads a new faster virtual machine, your app gets a speed boost.
    > If you are using an exe, you will not get this benefit.


    This could be considered undesirable, as well. Consider if the user
    either actively or passively downloads a newer JVM that has subtle
    bugs in the libraries or JIT compiler that did not exist before.

    And later:

    > Validate the latest versions of the compilation product from the
    > vendor. If critical bugs are found, it can't be used to build a
    > shipping product until those are addressed. Work that needs to be
    > done each time a revision comes out from the vendor.


    This could potentially be an even larger problem for Java developers.

    A developer that uses a static compiler can continue to use the same
    well known static compiler for years. A Java developer can't be sure
    their application will work on JDK 1.5.1 as well or reliably as it did
    on JDK 1.5.0, and may have little control over whether or not the user
    installs newer versions of the JVM.

    Another minor point:

    > Then one needs to get all customers to upgrade to the proper
    > version. Either have free updates (in which case the business needs
    > to absorb the cost of producing updates) or alternatively needs to
    > handle clients not all updating.


    It's additional work, but not extremely difficult to write an
    application that's capable of updating itself to newer versions. I do
    however realize Java Web Start gives you this for free.

    This paragraph struck me as very wrong:

    > Jon notes futher: When you ship standard Java bytecodes, VM problems
    > are the responsibility of the platform or VM vendor. However, when
    > you ship compiled binaries, they become your responsibility (even if
    > they're actually bugs in the vendor's compilation product).


    My personal opinion is that it's dangerously misleading to suggest
    that Java developers can pass the blame onto the JVM when their
    application fails. It may be the fault of the JVM, but in my opinion,
    the developer needs to take responsibility for what set of tools they
    use to make their application available.

    There are, in fact, quite a few good reasons for wanting to deliver to
    a customer a native .exe with everything statically compiled into it.
     
    , Dec 23, 2004
    #20
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