M
Mike Schilling
Lew said:
First name as well; is it one syllable or two?
First name as well; is it one syllable or two?
L
Lars Enderin
Mike Schilling skrev:
German, for example. Approximately: "Ahrn@".
Arne is pronounced as two syllables in Scandinavian languages and
German, for example. Approximately: "Ahrn@".
J
Joshua Cranmer
Lew said:
I originally assumed it was something like "Vadge-hodge," as I never
really thought about it. Then I remembered that Danish doesn't pronounce
`j' the same way English does (e.g., Bjarne), so I looked up the
pronunciation of `ø' on Wikipedia to be sure and came out with
"Vah-heuy" (where the `eu' is supposed to be like the French /peu/, I
can't think up the best vowel combination for English-only speakers...).
Then I looked up Danish phonology and apparently the `v' is something
more like an `r' (or is that merely for some dialects?)...
I give up. Trying to make sense of this stuff only by reading about it
on Wikipedia is impossible. I'll just stick with `Arne,' as I'm pretty
sure I can get that right.
L
Lars Enderin
Joshua Cranmer skrev:
Danes tend to pronounce "a" rather like an English "short a".
I would also pronounce the first j as y, so "Vayheuy" or "Veyhoey".
Danes tend to pronounce "a" rather like an English "short a".
H
hzergel901
Why are you talking to your imaginary friend Paul again? You should be
addressing me, or the entire newsgroup. Actually you should be seeking
professional help!
Anyway, a suspected implied insult may, of course, be an implied
insult, but is not guaranteed to be.
Regardless, none of the nasty things that you have said or implied
about me are at all true.
Oh, you mean it was a threat?
I don't respond well to threats.
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
Working around Google's bugs/awkwardness is not a crime.
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
No. None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me
are at all true.
You've killfiled Paul? That's not a very nice thing to do to your
imaginary friend. Why, if you ignore him, he ceases to exist! In a
way, you're actually not so much killfiling him as simply killing him.
Fortunately for you, invisible-friendicide is not a crime in most
jurisdictions, so you probably won't get charged with murder.
No, you're the crazy one*.
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
* I'm not the one talking to imaginary friends in public, and then
having a public falling-out with one of them!
A
Arne Vajhøj
John said:
No need to apologize.
That letter has caused much confusion in IT systems.
15 years ago on various mail lists it got through as a 'x'
('ø' with high bit stripped is 'x') and as a consequence many
readers assume dthat I was chinese.
Arne
A
Arne Vajhøj
John said:
That should work with any system with a GUI no matter what OS and
what config.
Arne
A
Arne Vajhøj
Lars said:
Yep !
Arne
L
Lew
Thank you.
J
John W Kennedy
Lew said:
Really? That seems unbelievable, considering his clear belief that
English is the world's only language. (I don't have a Windows system to
refer to, but my Mac lists "ø" on the Canadian English keyboard.)
Maybe he's an American who fled to Canada when he heard that college
students were being drafted by the NFL.
P
Paul Derbyshire
Oh, for Christ's sake.
I've known about this nonsense for a while but I ignored it until now.
Now I've decided it's gotten out of hand.
I am probably the Paul Derbyshire everyone here keeps talking about,
based on some mentions of Ottawa, Carleton University, and a certain
bogus FAQ, but I have never posted here before in living recollection.
And I'm not dead, either. Obviously.
Someone evidently mistook "Twisted" (though he seems to call himself
everything *but* Twisted) for me, and for about a year now every so
often my name gets dropped, and associated with Twisted's activities
and behavior (about which I pass no judgment, particularly given what
is likely to occur if I do) and with other things that I do not choose
to be associated with.
Probably that's because I'd used the name Twisted myself at one time,
though not for a long time and never on newsgroups. I would be
surprised if there were less than a thousand Twisteds out there,
former and current.
Perhaps part of what's bothering me now is that the frequency has
ramped up a lot. The other part is that I'm a C++ programmer of some
repute and I started hearing that I had a reputation in some circles
as a bad java programmer, which struck me as exceedingly odd, since I
wasn't any kind of java programmer at all. That this reputation was
apparently coming from a usenet newsgroup was doubly odd, since I'd
pretty much retired from any kind of public life on the 'net more than
ten years ago after an incident the details of which I will not
relate. I haven't posted to a newsgroup since around the time the web
got started, and I've avoided their various pale web imitations too,
until now.
Now I feel the need to say something here to try to clear up what is
obviously a colossal misunderstanding, and one that seems to be
getting worse.
I have nothing, nothing whatsoever, to do with whatever the hell is
going on here (and apparently has been for literally *years*). So
please leave my name out of it. Your Twisted seems to have more than
enough names for you to choose among already, so I suggest you just
use one of these -- "Twisted", say, since everybody here seems to know
who that name refers to around here and he does not seem to object to
it himself.
And on the charge of jingoism: rah rah, Canada will kick your ass, rah
rah rah. Yeah. I don't know about Harold, but I am definitely not an
american and the results of the election there don't have anything to
do with me. Praise or blame someone else. If Harold voted for a third
term for bush, string him up. Otherwise might as well forget about it.
Who elected or voted for who and who's a nationalist or americentric
has nothing to do with java anyway. And neither does this, so:
I won't post again. I have no interest whatsoever in whatever your
dispute is. I don't use java and I don't think emacs is terrible,
though I don't use it myself, and some of the nasty things you've said
about me are probably even true, though I've only skimmed this stuff
-- how the hell can I possibly do more, when there must be ten
thousand or more posts of it by now? I've skimmed enough to know the
various catch-phrases in use, though, and to have a vague idea of the
bones of contention, which seem to involve java and various text
editors -- and of course who'se name is what.
With any luck, there's now one less bone of contention.
Don't bother following up, and don't bother replying to the gmail
account either, I'm not particularly interested in anything you might
have to say (on either side of this, assuming there are only two, it
looks like there could be as many as 17) and I rarely use that gmail
for anything these days due to the huge amount of spam it gets. I just
figured the quickest way to post my first usenet post in years would
be to log into it, since I was already surfing the google archives
trying to figure out why the level of misuse of my name had spiked in
the past week or so.
Abusive email will be reported to the sender's internet provider.
Anything else mailed regarding thsi will just be deleted and ignored.
Now if you'll excuse me I have a bunch of destructors and to debug,
then it's this week's episode of Pointers Gone Wild, followed (as
usual) by Templates Behaving Badly and fixing some of Canada's Worst
Sound-Card Drivers. (sorry, can't tell you which brand, you can
probably guess anyway, but non-disclosure agreements and all that)
Good-bye.
P.S. I use winedt and occasionally jedit. Don't try to change my mind.
It won't work.
Er, does writing macros in jedit count as java programming?
nevermind.
J
Jerry Gerrone
[snip]
So, he really DOES exist.
No, that actually happened at least a year ago.
That "someone" calls himself Hunter Gratzner, and his erroneous
speculations have since spread far further than ever was merited. (The
speculator in question does not even seem to use this newsgroup.) So
now you know who to blame.
As for why I seem to call myself everything *but" Twisted, that's
because one of my opponents hacked my account with that name. They
were not able to actually take it over and impersonate me with it, but
they did do something to make it useless for GG posting. It works for
gmail still, but any attempt to post to GG with it produces the "you
need to sign in to do that" message, and has done for a year or so
now.
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
Indeed. Ditto Neos; since 1999 there have surely been over ten
thousand of those and probably millions. Any other handle from the
Matrix, thousands; any single dictionary word, at least hundreds if
the word hasn't got strong negative associations. (But you might not
find very many people calling themselves "rapist" or
"murderer"..."Twisted" is edgy without throbbing with evil, though.)
Begging your pardon, but that's like saying "I'm a sanitation engineer
of some repute". Except you probably get your hands dirtier.
It's not really all that odd. You see, there are bad people in the
world, and those bad people actually sometimes say things that are NOT
TRUE. And they don't always care who they might hurt when they do so,
either.
Aaaagh! TMI!
I had been contemplating quitting usenet after extricating myself from
this mess, until now. Reading that, I strongly suspect that nowhere is
safe, and I'd just get dragged back kicking and screaming by someone
posting something silly, wrong, and dangerous about me in a newsgroup
again eventually, regardless of my absence. Heck, I'd only been
embroiled in controversy over in alt.offtopic until someone here got
bored enough to start spamming this group with random anti-Twisted
flames a couple weeks ago just to stir shit up.
I have every reason to suspect that with your posting it will only get
worse still. You see, it seems to be like some kind of antimatter
reaction: pour anything on it, water, CO2, sand, Halon gas, whatever,
and it's just more fuel, unlike with a normal fire. Once you enter The
Flamewar, logic and reason no longer have any meaning; everything you
say is presumed to be a lie, and everything you hear from anyone
except me probably is a lie. Politics, name-calling, and having the
last word seem to assume greater importance by far than actually
proving a point, calculating a result, or observing something
empirical. It becomes a contest of volumes: who can outshout whom? A
contest I seem to be winning, but which seems increasingly
meaningless, except that I can't let an incorrect and negative
statement about me stand unopposed, not when it was said in public,
for reasons that really ought to be obvious.
Two or more at last count, intermittently, and more or less
continually for the last fourteen months.
And they don't care. They only care about outshouting me and saying
the stupid BS they believe (or wish) about me.
"Please" isn't in their vocabulary. Neither are "so", "leave", "my",
"name", "out", "of", and "it", for that matter. Sometimes I wonder if
they *have* a vocabulary bigger than "Twisted", "idiot", "crazy",
"stupid", "moron", "liar", and (unfortunately) your name.
and for good reasons that I recently re-explained in another post
That has about as big a chance of succeeding as a snowball has in
Hell.
In fact, by asking them politely to leave you out of it and making a
perfectly reasonable suggestion, you've just about guaranteed that
they'll flame you to a toasty brown, and probably accuse you of being
me as well ... oh wait, except that they've been accusing *me* of
being *you*. Nah, doesn't matter. That kind of circularity isn't going
to bother them, I don't think.
The very fact that I don't object to it is probably sufficient reason
for the more bloody-minded among them to refuse to use it.
Wait a minute.
I object! Nobody gets away with calling me "Twisted"! It's an insult!
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true!
There, maybe now they will be more willing to use it.
Canada probably can, too, after what Bush did to US military
readiness. I'd been thinking that if McCain, surrounded by Shrubbite
advisors and the rest of the corrupt, Shrubbite GOP political machine,
had stol^H^H^H^Hwon the election, it would have been a good idea for
Canada to annex the US -- feasible, easy, avoids Canada becoming the
51st state (instead Alaska winds up the 60th province, or something
like that), and the only greenery left at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is
growing in the lawn where it belongs, subjected a heck of a lot more
often than every four years to a good and thorough pruning.
Fortunately, that isn't now going to prove necessary, saving a lot of
bloodshed on both sides. (Think of all those American soldiers Tasered
and put in nice and cushy POW resorts, and all the Canadian forces
bleeding from insults and hurled abuse! Why, Canada's forces might
have never psychologically recovered from such brutal rudeness,
especially the battalion charged with occupying New York.)
Fortunately, no. If McCain had won, the results would have been of
great importance to everybody, though. Another four years of Shrubbite
foreign policies...
Oh, I'm sure they will -- they'll blame me. They always blame me.
Everybody does. Only they apparently think I'm you, so ... looks like
you're SOL.
If Harold voted for McCain, for that matter. Er, nah. If he did, it
obviously didn't make a difference, and perhaps the margin of Obama's
victory will teach him a lesson.
Do you think any of these goons give a shit about this newsgroup's
charter? If so, I have a clue I'm willing to sell you for about $500,
on sale, regular price is $799.99! Get it quick, this offer is only
good until veterans' day ... oops. Too late.
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
What?! This cannot be. I figured if they hated you so much, you had to
be as sensible as I about such matters. Now you say it's not
terrible??? But ... but ... it's like something out of the stone age.
No, worse, it's like something intentionally crafted by devious
psychopaths to cause severe migraines and brain damage to anyone
unfortunate enough to be exposed to their fiendish work of evil! Think
nerve gas, only instead of killing its victims, it just leaves them in
mental agony and confusion for the rest of their natural lives. The
only way it can ever rate as "not terrible" is in a competition where
the only other contestant to show up is vi. No, scratch that, the
proper way to judge such a contest is to declare that there is no
winner, no runner up, and no second runner up. And if the rules
*require* that the gold go to one of them, it should be shoved up the
loser's ass, along with a generous dollop of Superglue.
Eleven thousand, six hundred and twenty-three, to be precise. No,
wait, now it's almost eleven thousand, six hundred and twenty-four,
and will be exactly when I click "send" here.
Unless one of my attackers has pooped out another electronic turd in
the meantime, in which case it might be eleven thousand, six hundred
and twenty-five or more...
Ah. A much preferable term to the one my opponents prefer to use,
"boilerplate". Though really, the proper term for it is "efficiency",
something one tends to hone over the course of eleven thousand, six
hundred and twenty-four posts.
Actually, as near as I can tell it has very little to do with Java.
Some of the earliest stuff did, and the fights the same fuckheads are
now picking here with Harold Yargle (or whatever his name is) and
others, but the main "bone of contention" with me at this point seems
to be whether or not I am <insert something negative here>. Oh, and a
few technical points regarding Unix in general. The debates about how
terrible emacs and vi are have pretty much ended, with pretty much
nobody apparently continuing to defend those horrible, awkward, clunky
pieces of 1970s junk, the only plausibly legitimate present-day use
for which is to edit the code used to control some shiny faceted balls
and colored lights at some sort of retro dance event, if the
organizers decided to be really anal about being authentic to the
period in every detail, even if it cost some poor slob his last three
functioning brain cells, so he had none left to kill with booze after
the darn thing finally compiled and the party could get underway.
(And then someone would realize that the poor guy had
anachronistically used // comments in the C code and decide they had
to start all over...and some cruftiferous unix text editor would get a
free second crack at killing some more brain cells...their coder now
in a persistent vegetative state, the organizers would have to draw
straws to decide which one had to take one for the team...)
If there actually is one less bone of contention, it will be a stroke
of luck of comparable magnitude to winning a $200 million lotto
jackpot. Probably to be swiftly followed by a stroke of luck
comparable to the lotto-winner being hit by a car, a meteor, and
lightning simultaneously while en route to collect his winnings,
knowing the way these things tend to average out in the short run
around here.
Too late. If you expect me to delete everything I just wrote and click
"discard", you've got another think coming.
And I'm sure there'll be plenty of crap shoveled on you by my enemies,
too. They don't like it when someone tells them they were wrong about
something. I say this as one who knows.
There are only two: me and the bad guys. And I've got them
outnumbered.
You, too, eh?
Unfortunately, you were right, and now the shit is REALLY going to hit
the fan around here.
Because it's nearly the U.S. holiday season, plus the fuckheads have
lots more time on their hands now with the cessation of warm-weather
activities in their lives? Less work, less play -- the devil finds
work for idle hands, and these days it usually involves making off-
topic and inflammatory Usenet posts. When it doesn't simply involve
spamming.
I don't respond well to threats.
Come over to the Dark Side. Easier, more seductive it is -- garbage
collection we have, and automatic bounds checking, and generics with
type erasure. But no pointer arithmetic or multiple inheritance or
operator overloading.
JEdit?! That's basically a thinly-disguised emacs port!! You'll put
your eye out!
Christ, I hope not!
So, he really DOES exist.
No, that actually happened at least a year ago.
That "someone" calls himself Hunter Gratzner, and his erroneous
speculations have since spread far further than ever was merited. (The
speculator in question does not even seem to use this newsgroup.) So
now you know who to blame.
As for why I seem to call myself everything *but" Twisted, that's
because one of my opponents hacked my account with that name. They
were not able to actually take it over and impersonate me with it, but
they did do something to make it useless for GG posting. It works for
gmail still, but any attempt to post to GG with it produces the "you
need to sign in to do that" message, and has done for a year or so
now.
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
Indeed. Ditto Neos; since 1999 there have surely been over ten
thousand of those and probably millions. Any other handle from the
Matrix, thousands; any single dictionary word, at least hundreds if
the word hasn't got strong negative associations. (But you might not
find very many people calling themselves "rapist" or
"murderer"..."Twisted" is edgy without throbbing with evil, though.)
Begging your pardon, but that's like saying "I'm a sanitation engineer
of some repute". Except you probably get your hands dirtier.
It's not really all that odd. You see, there are bad people in the
world, and those bad people actually sometimes say things that are NOT
TRUE. And they don't always care who they might hurt when they do so,
either.
Aaaagh! TMI!
I had been contemplating quitting usenet after extricating myself from
this mess, until now. Reading that, I strongly suspect that nowhere is
safe, and I'd just get dragged back kicking and screaming by someone
posting something silly, wrong, and dangerous about me in a newsgroup
again eventually, regardless of my absence. Heck, I'd only been
embroiled in controversy over in alt.offtopic until someone here got
bored enough to start spamming this group with random anti-Twisted
flames a couple weeks ago just to stir shit up.
I have every reason to suspect that with your posting it will only get
worse still. You see, it seems to be like some kind of antimatter
reaction: pour anything on it, water, CO2, sand, Halon gas, whatever,
and it's just more fuel, unlike with a normal fire. Once you enter The
Flamewar, logic and reason no longer have any meaning; everything you
say is presumed to be a lie, and everything you hear from anyone
except me probably is a lie. Politics, name-calling, and having the
last word seem to assume greater importance by far than actually
proving a point, calculating a result, or observing something
empirical. It becomes a contest of volumes: who can outshout whom? A
contest I seem to be winning, but which seems increasingly
meaningless, except that I can't let an incorrect and negative
statement about me stand unopposed, not when it was said in public,
for reasons that really ought to be obvious.
Two or more at last count, intermittently, and more or less
continually for the last fourteen months.
And they don't care. They only care about outshouting me and saying
the stupid BS they believe (or wish) about me.
"Please" isn't in their vocabulary. Neither are "so", "leave", "my",
"name", "out", "of", and "it", for that matter. Sometimes I wonder if
they *have* a vocabulary bigger than "Twisted", "idiot", "crazy",
"stupid", "moron", "liar", and (unfortunately) your name.
and for good reasons that I recently re-explained in another post
That has about as big a chance of succeeding as a snowball has in
Hell.
In fact, by asking them politely to leave you out of it and making a
perfectly reasonable suggestion, you've just about guaranteed that
they'll flame you to a toasty brown, and probably accuse you of being
me as well ... oh wait, except that they've been accusing *me* of
being *you*. Nah, doesn't matter. That kind of circularity isn't going
to bother them, I don't think.
The very fact that I don't object to it is probably sufficient reason
for the more bloody-minded among them to refuse to use it.
Wait a minute.
I object! Nobody gets away with calling me "Twisted"! It's an insult!
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true!
There, maybe now they will be more willing to use it.
Canada probably can, too, after what Bush did to US military
readiness. I'd been thinking that if McCain, surrounded by Shrubbite
advisors and the rest of the corrupt, Shrubbite GOP political machine,
had stol^H^H^H^Hwon the election, it would have been a good idea for
Canada to annex the US -- feasible, easy, avoids Canada becoming the
51st state (instead Alaska winds up the 60th province, or something
like that), and the only greenery left at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is
growing in the lawn where it belongs, subjected a heck of a lot more
often than every four years to a good and thorough pruning.
Fortunately, that isn't now going to prove necessary, saving a lot of
bloodshed on both sides. (Think of all those American soldiers Tasered
and put in nice and cushy POW resorts, and all the Canadian forces
bleeding from insults and hurled abuse! Why, Canada's forces might
have never psychologically recovered from such brutal rudeness,
especially the battalion charged with occupying New York.)
Fortunately, no. If McCain had won, the results would have been of
great importance to everybody, though. Another four years of Shrubbite
foreign policies...
Oh, I'm sure they will -- they'll blame me. They always blame me.
Everybody does. Only they apparently think I'm you, so ... looks like
you're SOL.
If Harold voted for McCain, for that matter. Er, nah. If he did, it
obviously didn't make a difference, and perhaps the margin of Obama's
victory will teach him a lesson.
Do you think any of these goons give a shit about this newsgroup's
charter? If so, I have a clue I'm willing to sell you for about $500,
on sale, regular price is $799.99! Get it quick, this offer is only
good until veterans' day ... oops. Too late.
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
What?! This cannot be. I figured if they hated you so much, you had to
be as sensible as I about such matters. Now you say it's not
terrible??? But ... but ... it's like something out of the stone age.
No, worse, it's like something intentionally crafted by devious
psychopaths to cause severe migraines and brain damage to anyone
unfortunate enough to be exposed to their fiendish work of evil! Think
nerve gas, only instead of killing its victims, it just leaves them in
mental agony and confusion for the rest of their natural lives. The
only way it can ever rate as "not terrible" is in a competition where
the only other contestant to show up is vi. No, scratch that, the
proper way to judge such a contest is to declare that there is no
winner, no runner up, and no second runner up. And if the rules
*require* that the gold go to one of them, it should be shoved up the
loser's ass, along with a generous dollop of Superglue.
Eleven thousand, six hundred and twenty-three, to be precise. No,
wait, now it's almost eleven thousand, six hundred and twenty-four,
and will be exactly when I click "send" here.
Unless one of my attackers has pooped out another electronic turd in
the meantime, in which case it might be eleven thousand, six hundred
and twenty-five or more...
Ah. A much preferable term to the one my opponents prefer to use,
"boilerplate". Though really, the proper term for it is "efficiency",
something one tends to hone over the course of eleven thousand, six
hundred and twenty-four posts.
Actually, as near as I can tell it has very little to do with Java.
Some of the earliest stuff did, and the fights the same fuckheads are
now picking here with Harold Yargle (or whatever his name is) and
others, but the main "bone of contention" with me at this point seems
to be whether or not I am <insert something negative here>. Oh, and a
few technical points regarding Unix in general. The debates about how
terrible emacs and vi are have pretty much ended, with pretty much
nobody apparently continuing to defend those horrible, awkward, clunky
pieces of 1970s junk, the only plausibly legitimate present-day use
for which is to edit the code used to control some shiny faceted balls
and colored lights at some sort of retro dance event, if the
organizers decided to be really anal about being authentic to the
period in every detail, even if it cost some poor slob his last three
functioning brain cells, so he had none left to kill with booze after
the darn thing finally compiled and the party could get underway.
(And then someone would realize that the poor guy had
anachronistically used // comments in the C code and decide they had
to start all over...and some cruftiferous unix text editor would get a
free second crack at killing some more brain cells...their coder now
in a persistent vegetative state, the organizers would have to draw
straws to decide which one had to take one for the team...)
If there actually is one less bone of contention, it will be a stroke
of luck of comparable magnitude to winning a $200 million lotto
jackpot. Probably to be swiftly followed by a stroke of luck
comparable to the lotto-winner being hit by a car, a meteor, and
lightning simultaneously while en route to collect his winnings,
knowing the way these things tend to average out in the short run
around here.
Too late. If you expect me to delete everything I just wrote and click
"discard", you've got another think coming.
And I'm sure there'll be plenty of crap shoveled on you by my enemies,
too. They don't like it when someone tells them they were wrong about
something. I say this as one who knows.
There are only two: me and the bad guys. And I've got them
outnumbered.
You, too, eh?
Unfortunately, you were right, and now the shit is REALLY going to hit
the fan around here.
Because it's nearly the U.S. holiday season, plus the fuckheads have
lots more time on their hands now with the cessation of warm-weather
activities in their lives? Less work, less play -- the devil finds
work for idle hands, and these days it usually involves making off-
topic and inflammatory Usenet posts. When it doesn't simply involve
spamming.
I don't respond well to threats.
Come over to the Dark Side. Easier, more seductive it is -- garbage
collection we have, and automatic bounds checking, and generics with
type erasure. But no pointer arithmetic or multiple inheritance or
operator overloading.
JEdit?! That's basically a thinly-disguised emacs port!! You'll put
your eye out!
Christ, I hope not!
A
Arne Vajhøj
Jerry said:
Credibility: zero
Internet usage skills: zero
From: (e-mail address removed)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject: Re: Possible bug in Calendar
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:45:24 -0800 (PST)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Message-ID:
<6330de58-253f-4b69-8b28-ae7ec8133355@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.14.135.55
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1226886324 23312 127.0.0.1 (17 Nov 2008
01:45:24 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:45:24 +0000 (UTC)
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From: Paul Derbyshire <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject: Re: Possible bug in Calendar
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:54:27 -0800 (PST)
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From: Jerry Gerrone <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject: Re: Possible bug in Calendar
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:10:17 -0800 (PST)
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Arne
H
Harold Yarmouth
Arne said:
The behavior is unintuitive and undesirable. How documented it happens
to be is irrelevant to that assessment.
No, the real problem was that YOU did not read any of the books I
recommended about manners!
Besides Emily Post, I suggest How To Win Friends and Influence People.
You seem to be currently reading from a very different playbook, perhaps
How To Make Enemies and Antagonize People -- you're brutish, you're
short-tempered, and you treat everyone that doesn't agree with you or
doesn't know something that you think they should know as if they were
an idiot or a small, wayward child.
But the only child here is you -- about two years old, to judge by your
tantrums and general failure to empathize.
In my experience, the easiest way to have one less bug in a program is
by documenting the buggy behavior.
But it is certainly not the best way.
That implies something unpleasant about me that is not correct.
You assume that the moderator would permit off-topic posts full of
personal attacks but would not permit "stop insulting me" replies to
such posts. I find it likely that the moderator of such a board would
instead delete off-topic posts full of personal attacks and ban anyone
that posted too many of these. With the moderator deleting such posts I
would not feel the need to reply to them. So, in fact you would very
quickly be gone and I wouldn't be.
Here, we get this pattern:
Harold: Something about Java
Arne: Harold is an idiot
Harold: No, I am not
Arne: Am too!
Harold: Am not!
Your hypothetical moderated board:
Harold: Something about Java
Arne: Harold is an idiot
Harold: No, I am nmmmmf! *booted*
A moderated board with reasonable policies in the real world:
Harold: Something about Java
Arne: Harold is an idmmmmf! *booted*
Harold: What was that? I thought I heard something. Anyway,
regarding that Java thing...hmm, interesting, now there's
a gap in the post numbering. I wonder why?
The only way I can see something like the second example actually
occurring is if you were board administrator. And I would never touch a
board you administered with a ten-foot pole, knowing how you'd likely
abuse that kind of power.
H
Harold Yarmouth
Joshua said:
I'm the one who originally said something about not knowing any Latin.
Now you're being ridiculous.
H
Harold Yarmouth
John said:
Not relevant. I asked if the former was contained in the latter.
My experience has been that
a) i.e. and e.g. are the only ones in widespread use outside of highly
specialized publications, and the only ones the general population is
ever expected to know.
b) cf. is less common.
c) The above all have meanings that can typically be inferred in
context.
d) ibid. and op. cit. appear now and again in the appendices of very
technical documents, generally without explanation or easy inference
of meaning from context. Neither is taught in a typical grade school,
high school, or computer science oriented postsecondary curriculum.
Nor are the first three, but those tend to be more common and to get
learned from their context and usage. You "pick them up".
In particular, I've previously seen both of the latter, but never did
pick up on any definite meaning for either, and I'm fairly sure my
experience is typical of most people working outside of hard-core
academia (hard-core as in writing your own papers, doing original
research in some field, and all that).
We're Java programmers here. Or at least those of us who actually
sometimes post on-topic here are. Nowhere in the typical Java
programmer's education is the sort of hard-core academics where I
presume people tend to end up learning and using those two terms. I
expect graduate students, at least outside of the humanities, and Ph.D.
students will probably end up with those (and probably a fair amount of
other otherwise-uncommon Latin-related stuff).
But your presumption of idiocy on the part of anyone who doesn't know
those terms here is way out of line, nevermind factually wrong.
Here, nobody much learns those hairier Latin abbreviations if they go
into something practical or vocational, such as Java programming, rather
than aiming for a master's degree or higher in an academic field.
If that is equivalent to "majored in shop" to you (even though it may
actually mean having a B.Sc. in engineering or computer science) well
then I guess you're right, but I don't then consider it to be much of an
insult. Without people who "majored in shop" in this manner, you airy
fairy academics would have to do your work without computers, in the
dark, and in a damp cave somewhere, in between catching your means with
your bow and arrows. It's guys like us that build the practical
technology that academics lay the theoretical foundations for, and guys
like us that keep the lights on and the wheels turning and yes, mine the
silicon, build the factory, run the chip-making plant, and write the
code that runs on the chips.
If you say that Joe Programmers like me "majored in shop" then I say
yes, I did, and I am proud of it.
The one being ignorant here is you, and you definitely have no excuse
for your behavior.
Non-sequitur, especially since my name is quite plainly Harold Yarmouth.
Harold Yarmouth, B.Sc. computer science, for anyone that is wondering.
You go ahead now and look down your nose at me from the top of that
ivory tower. Just remember that guys like me built the damn thing and
guys like me keep it from falling over, freezing in the winter, or
boiling you in your own sweat in the summer. Not to mention keep the web
services running that let you do your research from the comfy chair in
the corner office on the 63rd floor of yon ivory tower instead of having
to get off your duff and walk across the quad to the library like your
father's generation of panty-waisted academics had to.
Go right ahead. Look down your nose at me. Just be aware that I'll be
looking right back at you down MY nose, not seeing much use for arrogant
know-it-all gits like yourself whose primary work activity looks
suspiciously like an intellectual circle-jerk, that don't get their
hands dirty with anything practical ever, that all too rarely actually
produce an important result with engineering applications, and that all
too often seem to be snorting at the public trough.
I get things done. You do what, sit in an armchair somewhere insulting
me for my supposed lack of knowledge or skill? Get out of the way and
let the real programmers get back to discussing Java programming. We
don't need you and we don't need your narrow-minded opinions of us, and
we find for, while, do, if, and the like to be of much more use than op.
cit.
If that makes us idiots, I wonder what it makes you, given how much more
we tend to accomplish in actual practice with our fors, whiles, dos,
ifs, and the like than you do with your precious op. cit.s? Moron?
Complete imbecile? Maybe just the proverbial bigger idiot? I don't know,
but it would seem to mean that your stone-throwing is coming from inside
a glass house.
H
Harold Yarmouth
I majored in computer science. If that's "shop", then I take pride in it.
I am not the one who is being ignorant around here. That prize goes to
you, Arne, and John W. Kennedy probably qualifies as a runner-up.
Non-sequitur, and, moreover, simply wrong.
Apparantly, then, you're Paul, as is John, as is Lew and Joshua and
possibly Hendrik.
Since the lot of you seem to think that I am always incorrect.
If you're a lousy programmer, and Lew's a lousy programmer, and several
other of you are lousy programmers, what the heck are you posting to
this group for? If it's in the hope of becoming better programmers, then
begging your pardon but you're going about it in completely the wrong
way. Being antagonistic and publicly rude to the better programmers in
the newsgroup is hardly going to inspire us to assist you in improving
your skills.
I am not the one who is being ignorant around here. That prize goes to
you, Arne, and John W. Kennedy probably qualifies as a runner-up.
Non-sequitur, and, moreover, simply wrong.
Apparantly, then, you're Paul, as is John, as is Lew and Joshua and
possibly Hendrik.
Since the lot of you seem to think that I am always incorrect.
If you're a lousy programmer, and Lew's a lousy programmer, and several
other of you are lousy programmers, what the heck are you posting to
this group for? If it's in the hope of becoming better programmers, then
begging your pardon but you're going about it in completely the wrong
way. Being antagonistic and publicly rude to the better programmers in
the newsgroup is hardly going to inspire us to assist you in improving
your skills.
H
Harold Yarmouth
Arne said:
Most English classes don't teach Latin. That is a basic,
plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face fact that no reasonable person would
disagree with.
You, Arne, have now demonstrated yourself conclusively to be "no
reasonable person".
As such, I think I needn't fear anyone taking you seriously anymore.
Especially not combined with your brutishness and your poor grammar.
You're like a street thug, short on smarts or language skills but long
on threats and general glowering nastiness. Except that a street thug
gets taken somewhat seriously due to the threat of physical violence
that he poses. You, on the other hand, are laughable. Especially since
you actually seem to think that a thuggish attitude can somehow
compensate for a lack of brains ON THE INTERNET. Hahaha! What a laugh!
"Gimme all yuor mony or I bash ya brayn zin" might work in a dark alley.
"Try read some X u idiot" and "Yore rong again you igornat morron!!1" do
not provoke anything but laughter online.
If you intend to be taken seriously, you need to act less like a
third-tier goon that doesn't even rate "henchman" from some bad mobster
movie and more like a Harvard graduate with some skill in a complex and
intelligence-demanding field, preferably Java programming given the
group topic.
Part of that means acting with appropriate decorum, and in particular
not being nasty and verbally violent with everyone that disagrees with
you. Being able to disagree or debate something civilly is a vital skill
than you need in order to be taken seriously.
Another is the ability to sound intelligent and professional when you
communicate.
"Yore rong!!1" and "Try read more books!" and similar utterances
indicate that on both scores you still have a lot of work to do as of yet.
Latin, "culture", in this day and age? You're joking.
"Culture" in academia these days tends to mean Shakespeare, Conrad,
Twain, Milton, and the like -- not Latin.
"Culture" outside academia these days tends to mean keeping abreast of
the latest juicy gossip about the contestants on The Amazing Race and
the like -- also not Latin, except the odd time they have to find and
decipher some clue in the Vatican, and then it's likely to be igpay
atinlay rather than the real thing anyway.
That's like suggesting that you make a ten minute hike to work easier by
training to run the Olympic marathon. Or (objava) write a fairly complex
Java program by writing a full-blown AI that's smart enough to program
the first program for you. Or interpreting dinosaur bones is so great a
mental challenge you take up quantum physics instead so you can figure
out how and make a time machine and just go back and watch them do their
thing.
An option. Not a core part of the curriculum for every student. Exactly
as I contended. Thanks for supporting my point for me. I'm glad you've
finally decided to come around to my point of view, and that you've
finally seen reason.
H
Harold Yarmouth
Lew said:
Not as a requirement, unless you're quite long in the tooth, I expect,
"Lew".
I never claimed it wasn't present sometimes as an option. I just claimed
it isn't commonly considered required learning these days, nor was it
taught as part of an *English* curriculum.
Well that's just plain strange, and definitely unrepresentative of the
typical junior high English curriculum of the past three or so decades.
In highfalutin' academia, in other words? Not in Java software
engineering contexts? Why the hell did you expect everyone here to know
something that is uncommon outside of a context that is not particularly
important to Java programmers? Have you, "Lew", in fact been confused
all along regarding what newsgroup this is and/or what its purpose is?
M
Mike Schilling
Harold said:
This begins to make sense. It's true that when I was in college I wrote my
own papers. Who wrote yours?