[PROPOSAL] ruby-wish@ruby-lang.org mailing list

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by dave, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. dave

    dave Guest

    what about a dedicatied mailing list for feedback?



    --
    >here are more things in heaven and earth,

    horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    dave, Jun 8, 2005
    #1
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  2. On 6/8/05, dave <> wrote:
    > what about a dedicatied mailing list for feedback?


    Why?

    ruby-talk is fine for discussions; ruby-core is great for technical
    changes. David Black's RCRchive (rcrchive.net) captures change
    requests; RubyForge has trackers for bugs and patches.

    There's more than enough places to discuss feedback without adding Yet
    Another Mailing List.

    -austin
    --=20
    Austin Ziegler *
    * Alternate:
    Austin Ziegler, Jun 8, 2005
    #2
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  3. Austin Ziegler wrote:
    > On 6/8/05, dave <> wrote:
    >> what about a dedicatied mailing list for feedback?

    >
    > Why?
    >
    > ruby-talk is fine for discussions; ruby-core is great for technical
    > changes. David Black's RCRchive (rcrchive.net) captures change
    > requests; RubyForge has trackers for bugs and patches.
    >
    > There's more than enough places to discuss feedback without adding Yet
    > Another Mailing List.


    You're opposing YAML? Ts ts ts...
    :)

    robert


    PS: Sorry for the noise...
    Robert Klemme, Jun 8, 2005
    #3
  4. dave

    dave Guest

    --Boundary-00=_rstpCeaVF5MHMAp
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    > David Black's RCRchive (rcrchive.net) captures change requests;

    and if this ml will be a frontend to rcr archive?

    #
    # rcr insert
    #

    #
    insert: aTitleString
    ---
    abstract:
    we have to..

    motivation:
    when we..

    proposal:
    to avoid..

    rationale:
    "Proc.new"..


    #
    # rcr search
    #

    # in the e-mail subject..
    search: aRegEx
    isn't this fast and cool?


    --
    >here are more things in heaven and earth,

    horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    --Boundary-00=_rstpCeaVF5MHMAp--
    dave, Jun 8, 2005
    #4
  5. On 6/8/05, dave <> wrote:
    > > David Black's RCRchive (rcrchive.net) captures change requests;

    > and if this ml will be a frontend to rcr archive?


    Bad idea. There are too many bad RCRs out there anyway. Matz
    emphasized that RCRs should be done in the way that RCRchive does them
    because of the overall low quality of RCRs as they had been on the
    RubyGarden page prior to RCRchive.

    -austin
    --=20
    Austin Ziegler *
    * Alternate:
    Austin Ziegler, Jun 8, 2005
    #5
  6. --Apple-Mail-2-347455551
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    delsp=yes;
    format=flowed

    On Jun 8, 2005, at 8:25 AM, Austin Ziegler wrote:
    > Bad idea. There are too many bad RCRs out there anyway. Matz
    > emphasized that RCRs should be done in the way that RCRchive does them
    > because of the overall low quality of RCRs as they had been on the
    > RubyGarden page prior to RCRchive.


    To further elaborate: Potential RCRs should be discussed on the
    mailing list prior to becoming a real RCR, to help find flaws in the
    proposal and/or help refine it. I made the mistake when I first
    started with Ruby of throwing in a bunch of RCRs, and finding out
    that they were ill-conceived.

    --Apple-Mail-2-347455551--
    Gavin Kistner, Jun 8, 2005
    #6
  7. dave

    dave Guest


    > Potential RCRs should be discussed on the =A0
    > mailing list prior to becoming a real RCR


    yes!
    a mailing list is easy to use and has advantages also for=20
    you: a local copy of all rc in maildir format :)=20


    =2D-=20
    >here are more things in heaven and earth,

    horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    dave, Jun 8, 2005
    #7
  8. On 6/8/05, dave <> wrote:
    > > Potential RCRs should be discussed on the=20
    > > mailing list prior to becoming a real RCR

    > yes!
    > a mailing list is easy to use and has advantages also for
    > you: a local copy of all rc in maildir format :)


    no!

    The mailing list for this already exists: ruby-talk.

    The place for formal RCRs already exists: RCRchive.

    There is no need for anything else.

    -austin
    --=20
    Austin Ziegler *
    * Alternate:
    Austin Ziegler, Jun 8, 2005
    #8
  9. dave

    dave Guest


    > There is no need for anything else.

    it's an improvement.
    you gain in time and quality of service.


    --
    >here are more things in heaven and earth,

    horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    dave, Jun 8, 2005
    #9
  10. dave

    Thomas Adam Guest

    On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 05:30:13AM +0900, dave wrote:
    >
    > > There is no need for anything else.

    >
    > it's an improvement you gain in time and quality of service .


    This list is busy enough, without the hollow tirade you seem hell-bent
    in persuing. In my opinion, there's no need for yet *another*
    mailing-list. Even if you split it (for argument's sake) I can already
    envisage the cross-posting/forwarding scenario, for which would be even
    worse.

    We don't need another mailing-list.

    -- Thomas Adam

    --
    "One of us is a cigar stand, and one of us is a lovely blue incandescent
    guillotine" -- Stephen Malkmus, "Type Slowly" from "Brighten The Corners"
    Thomas Adam, Jun 8, 2005
    #10
  11. dave

    dave Guest


    > there's no need for yet *another* mailing-list

    now. but with a dedicated list a novice would be happier
    to express his opinion and the whole comunity will seem
    more interested to user opinion.

    > the cross-posting/forwarding scenario

    i think nobody won't have any reason or interest in
    cross posting



    --
    >here are more things in heaven and earth,

    horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    dave, Jun 8, 2005
    #11
  12. dave

    Dave Burt Guest

    "dave" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > what about a dedicatied mailing list for feedback?


    There is ruby-suby or suby-ruby or something, which is something like this,
    I think. (Anyone who knows?)
    Dave Burt, Jun 8, 2005
    #12
  13. dave

    Lyle Johnson Guest

    On 6/8/05, Dave Burt <> wrote:

    > There is ruby-suby or suby-ruby or something, which is something like thi=

    s,
    > I think. (Anyone who knows?)


    With all due respect to the people who do participate in those kinds
    of "splinter" mailing lists, the participation level sort-of proves
    the point that there's just not much interest in them. For example, a
    quick check of the "suby-ruby" mailing list archives over the last
    four or five months confirms that one can count the number of
    different participants on one hand. Usually, you can count them on
    just one finger.
    Lyle Johnson, Jun 8, 2005
    #13
  14. On 6/8/05, dave <> wrote:
    > > there's no need for yet *another* mailing-list

    > now. but with a dedicated list a novice would be happier
    > to express his opinion and the whole comunity will seem
    > more interested to user opinion.


    Bunkus. With a dedicated list, novice users will continuously add bad
    ideas to the list of RCRs. I'm going to guess that you feel a novice
    user -- what makes you feel uncomfortable about posting to ruby-talk
    with your ideas? If it's that you're afraid your ideas will be shot
    down, that will happen ON THEIR OWN MERIT whether you post them on
    RCRchive, ruby-talk, or the ruby-wish list you seem to desire.

    > > the cross-posting/forwarding scenario

    > i think nobody won't have any reason or interest in
    > cross posting


    Bunkus. The mention of the suby mailing list is a poignant one: there
    are occasional forwards from that list to this one because ... no one
    is paying attention to the suby mailing list.

    -austin
    --=20
    Austin Ziegler *
    * Alternate:
    Austin Ziegler, Jun 8, 2005
    #14
  15. On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:38:26 +0900, Lyle Johnson wrote:

    > quick check of the "suby-ruby" mailing list archives over the last
    > four or five months confirms that one can count the number of
    > different participants on one hand. Usually, you can count them on
    > just one finger.


    And there are those of us who prefer comp.lang.ruby over mailing lists, and
    would not see the posted messages at all. I rather like having all the Ruby
    related discussions, suggestions and questions in one place.

    M.
    Michael Vondung, Jun 9, 2005
    #15
  16. Michael Vondung wrote:
    > On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:38:26 +0900, Lyle Johnson wrote:
    >
    >
    >>quick check of the "suby-ruby" mailing list archives over the last
    >>four or five months confirms that one can count the number of
    >>different participants on one hand. Usually, you can count them on
    >>just one finger.

    >
    >
    > And there are those of us who prefer comp.lang.ruby over mailing lists, and
    > would not see the posted messages at all. I rather like having all the Ruby
    > related discussions, suggestions and questions in one place.
    >
    > M.


    +1
    Timothy Hunter, Jun 9, 2005
    #16
  17. dave

    dave Guest


    > I'm going to guess that you feel a novice user

    I'm going to guess that you feel NOT a novice user ;)

    i care the ruby success and people in the elite like
    you should help novice like me to join the spirit of
    ruby.


    > bad ideas to the list of RCRs

    freedom of speech is more important than good ideas,
    if you have 1 good proposal on 100 you have 101 happy
    people: the 100 who expressed the ideas and the
    developer who has a new good idea.


    > suby mailing list is a poignant one

    is such ml an offical one?
    does people know about the existence of it?

    the problem is the last.



    --
    >here are more things in heaven and earth,

    horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    dave, Jun 9, 2005
    #17
  18. dave

    dave Guest


    > comp.lang.ruby over mailing lists


    the e-mail is a killer app.


    --
    >here are more things in heaven and earth,

    horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    dave, Jun 9, 2005
    #18
  19. On 6/9/05, dave <> wrote:
    >> I'm going to guess that you feel a novice user

    > I'm going to guess that you feel NOT a novice user ;)
    >=20
    > i care the ruby success and people in the elite like you should
    > help novice like me to join the spirit of ruby.


    The best way to do that is to read, learn, discuss and participate.
    Suggesting a new mailing list for the discussion of desired features
    is NOT a useful way to get into the "spirit of Ruby," IMO. If you
    have a feature you want in Ruby, just propose it. It might get shot
    down! The first feature request that I made -- on ruby-talk, I might
    add -- was shot down very quickly. I still don't think it's a bad
    idea, but it's just not a very Ruby idea.

    > > bad ideas to the list of RCRs

    > freedom of speech is more important than good ideas,


    Sorry. That's not actually true. In any case, you *do* have freedom
    of speech on ruby-talk. If you choose not to exercise it because you
    don't see a forum for it (despite the fact that *ruby-talk* is that
    forum, and RCRchive is for more formal proposals that meet a strict
    structure as mandated by matz), that isn't prior restraint of
    speech.

    > if you have 1 good proposal on 100 you have 101 happy people: the
    > 100 who expressed the ideas and the developer who has a new good
    > idea.


    Then express your idea. If it's a good one, people will say so. If
    it isn't, people will *also* say so. Either way, no one is stopping
    you.

    On the other hand, I think that it's clear that the overwhelming
    opinion is that this is a bad idea for any number of reasons.

    > > suby mailing list is a poignant one

    > is such ml an offical one?
    > does people know about the existence of it?
    >=20
    > the problem is the last.


    The problem isn't the last; people know about it. They just don't
    care to divide their Ruby reading that way -- and they don't
    necessarily agree with the discussion that has happened there in the
    past. (Some do; some don't. I am not passing judgement either way,
    but observing why there's likely such low membership on said list.)

    -austin
    --=20
    Austin Ziegler *
    * Alternate:
    Austin Ziegler, Jun 10, 2005
    #19
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