Python is slow

[cm_gui]

Python is slow. Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow. Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow. Even
Google Apps is not faster. Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

 

[Mike Driscoll]

Python is slow.    Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow.   Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow.  Even
Google Apps is not faster.   Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

What about http://www.torontolife.com/ ? It uses Django...

Mike

 

[Dan Upton]

Python is slow. Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow. Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow. Even
Google Apps is not faster. Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

Really fast, or fast enough? Because "fast enough" is all that really
matters. I don't notice any difference in HTML load time between your
various examples, what's slower is downloading all of the thumbnails
or doing AJAX calls.

 

[inhahe]

I don't get what the issue is between sites that use Python and being slow,
if there is one, because there's a website online that shows the results of
a dozen or so benchmarks when comparing any two languages. Python beats PHP
in almost all the benchmarks. (it also beats almost all the other languages
(they're all scripting languages) in most of the benchmarks, lua being the
only exception i remember.)

 

[Jason Scheirer]

Python is slow.    Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow.   Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow.  Even
Google Apps is not faster.   Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

This post is a troll written by someone who has already made up their
mind. I really don't recommend trying to argue here. I've written
plenty of fast, fast Python and there are countless Python processes
on servers out there that is not only fast but transparently so.

 

[Arnaud Delobelle]

Python is slow. Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow. Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow. Even
Google Apps is not faster. Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

You're slow too. And your mum. And your car is so slow, it gets
overtaken by slugs. Whereas I'm really fast, I'll race you to the end
of the street and we'll see who wins. My mum's fast, my car's got a
super fast noisy exhaust.

So there.

 

[bruno.desthuilliers]

Python is slow.

Oh, a troll...

Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow. Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow. Even
Google Apps is not faster. Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

Err, a very bad troll actually. Trop gros, passera pas.

 

[Brad]

Python is slow.

It ain't C++, but it ain't a punch card either... somewhere in between.
I find it suitable for lots of stuff. I use C++ when performance really
matters tho... right tool for the job. Learn a good interpreted language
(Pyhton) and a good compiled language (C or C++) and you'll be just
fine. Until then, quit bitching.

 

[sturlamolden]

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

I bet you have a slow dial-up connection.

 

[Carl Banks]

Python is slow. Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow. Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow. Even
Google Apps is not faster. Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

I expect Dave Parker here any minute to tell us how Flaming Thunder
isn't slow.


Carl Banks

 

[Erich]

My mum's fast...<more snipping>

Arnaud

Was it a good idea to include that bit in a troll response?

If English isn't your first language, it's one of those language
idioms that's not very nice to say about someone's mother (especially
your own mother).

Erich

 

[Matthew Trevor]

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

Then stop looking at your own inept Python code and open your eyes.

 

[RPM1]

If your Python program is
slow, you have almost assuredly approached it with a wrong method or
algorithm.

I agree for most applications. There are however times where Python
just isn't fast enough, and that's usually when people write extension
modules.

I have yet to see a chess engine written in Python that is competitive
with even a below average C or C++ chess engine. The same could be said
of Java, VB, C#, Pearl, ...

So there ARE some tasks that Python just isn't suited for due to
performance, but not enough for it to steer anyone away from Python.

I have been working on a chess engine and have found that I prototype in
Python and then port to the D programming language, (which IS fast).
For example, one of my routines, (generating pseudo-legal moves -- no
evaluation), in Python runs at 700,000 moves per second, (using Psyco).
Ported to D it runs at 22 million moves per second.

Python's advantage is in the software development and maintenance
phases. As long as the runtime phase is fast ENOUGH, Python kicks most
other languages butts.

Patrick

 

[Kay Schluehr]

You are just dead wrong about this.

No, he can demand whatever he wants and we can be stupid enough to
respond.

 

[Andrew Lee]

Python is slow. Almost all of the web applications written in
Python are slow. Zope/Plone is slow, sloow, so very slooow. Even
Google Apps is not faster. Neither is Youtube.
Facebook and Wikipedia (Mediawiki), written in PHP, are so much faster
than Python.
Okay, they probably use caching or some code compilation -- but Google
Apps and those Zope sites probably also use caching.

I've yet to see a web application written in Python which is really
fast.

So --- don't use Google

* shrug *


Personally I find PHP to be a hideous language -- it has only one use.
It is Perl for people who can be bothered to learn a general purpose
programming language and just write web applications.

Python is a general purpose programming language ... it does web nicely
(Django and pylons!), it supports real OOP and OOD, it's extensible, it
has a smart set of libraries, intelligent and coherent interfaces, it
sails across platforms, it has at least one great ORM (SQLAlchemy) and I
keep discovering new cool things about the language as a recent convert
that make me wonder why I would ever write another large application in
Perl or Java.


I find Zope to be a mess and it gives me a headache ... but it Zope is
an *application framework*, not a *programming language*. So, I think
you are barking up the wrong straw man (if I may mix metaphors).

But that's just my $0.02.

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Brad a écrit :

It ain't C++, but it ain't a punch card either... somewhere in between.
I find it suitable for lots of stuff. I use C++ when performance really
matters tho... right tool for the job. Learn a good interpreted language
(Pyhton) and a good compiled language (C or C++)

LordHaveMercy(tm). Could you guys please learn what you're talking about?

1/ being interpreted or compiled (for whatever definition of these
terms) is not a property of a language, but a property of an
implementation of a language.

2/ actually, all known Python implementations compile to byte-code.

 

[Carl Banks]

Brad a écrit :



LordHaveMercy(tm). Could you guys please learn what you're talking about?

1/ being interpreted or compiled (for whatever definition of these
terms) is not a property of a language, but a property of an
implementation of a language.

2/ actually, all known Python implementations compile to byte-code.

You know, even though you're technically correct, I'd like to see you
abandon this little crusade. At this point it's more noisy than
helpful.

Like it or not, to most of the world, "interpreted" vs. "compiled" is
a vague pragmatic distinction between fast machine-coded languages and
not-so-fast non-machine-coded languages. And like it or not, the
world rarely cares to make the distinction between language and
implementation, and frankly, it's usually not necessary to.

What Brad said is perfectly acceptable, and good advice IMHO, under
the common usage of the terms. I really don't see much reason to call
someone out on it unless they're being deliberately misleading.


Carl Banks

 

[inhahe]

Brad a écrit :

LordHaveMercy(tm). Could you guys please learn what you're talking about?

1/ being interpreted or compiled (for whatever definition of these
terms) is not a property of a language, but a property of an
implementation of a language.

That's like saying being spherical is not a property of planets, it's a
property of an instanciation of a planet. Let alone that a) all known
planets are spherical (all implementations of Python are not natively
compiled (and you said for whatever definition)), and b) It's a far cry to
imagine a planet coming into being that's not spherical (a language as
dynamic as Python, or most other scripting languages, would be either
extremely difficult or impossible to make a native compiler for). I guess I
should also mention that Python isn't very practical (as in "suitable",
"right tool for the job", and "perfomance", as mentioned in the above post)
without an implementation. So I don't think this distinction has any use
other than to beat other people over the head with a bat.

2/ actually, all known Python implementations compile to byte-code.

Which is then interpreted, but you're still technically right, because
"compiled" can mean either compiled to bytecode or compiled to native code,
despite what it actually did mean. Semantics FTW!!

 

[Ivan Illarionov]

It ain't C++, but it ain't a punch card either... somewhere in between.
I find it suitable for lots of stuff. I use C++ when performance really
matters tho... right tool for the job. Learn a good interpreted language
(Pyhton) and a good compiled language (C or C++) and you'll be just
fine. Until then, quit bitching.

It's wrong. Here's why.

Compare your statement to:
"OP: Humans are weak.
"Brad: They ain't gorillas, but they ain't insects either...
somewhere in between."

Python is *not* in between C++ and something else. It's far ahead
of them all. Raw speed is not the most important thing in programming
languages like raw physical strength is not the most important thing
in life.
Pure Python has less raw speed than most compiled-to-machine-code
languages, but it doesn't matter. Python can be extended easily and,
most important, Python is smart.

Ivan

 

[Paul Rubin]

planets are spherical (all implementations of Python are not natively
compiled (and you said for whatever definition)), and b) It's a far cry to
imagine a planet coming into being that's not spherical (a language as
dynamic as Python, or most other scripting languages, would be either
extremely difficult or impossible to make a native compiler for).

There are native Python compilers, see psyco and pypy.