Racial equality is a myth!

[Toby Inkster]

But if you test blacks in Africa, where they don't have the white
admixture (blacks in America average about 20% white blood), the average
IQ drops to around 60.

It is well known that non-Westerners do poorly at Western IQ tests, simply
because the design of the IQ test assumes knowledge of Western culture.

A typical IQ test question is along the lines of... spot the odd one out:

A. Tin-opener
B. Wooden spoon
C. Nail clippers
D. Cheese grater

It assumes you know the typical contents of a Western kitchen.

But how about if the three kitchen implements were replaced with different
varieties of African bread made from wheat flour, and the nail clippers
were replaced with a type of African bread made from corn flour. Would
*you* be able to spot the odd one out? Would a native African?

And if you didn't guess it, the answer to the spot the odd one out
question was B -- it doesn't have any sharp cutting edges. The others do.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

ronco wrote:

It is well known that non-Westerners do poorly at Western IQ tests, simply
because the design of the IQ test assumes knowledge of Western culture.

A typical IQ test question is along the lines of... spot the odd one out:

A. Tin-opener
B. Wooden spoon
C. Nail clippers
D. Cheese grater

It assumes you know the typical contents of a Western kitchen.

But how about if the three kitchen implements were replaced with different
varieties of African bread made from wheat flour, and the nail clippers
were replaced with a type of African bread made from corn flour. Would
*you* be able to spot the odd one out? Would a native African?

And if you didn't guess it, the answer to the spot the odd one out
question was B -- it doesn't have any sharp cutting edges. The others do.

Or C -- while the others are useful for preparation of food, nail
clippers aren't.

 

[WebMaster]

out:


do.

Or C -- while the others are useful for preparation of food, nail
clippers aren't.

You both clearly demonstrated the fact that IQ tests are very close to
useless to measure whatever

Rudy

 

[mbstevens]

You both clearly demonstrated the fact that IQ tests are very close to
useless to measure whatever

Stephen Jay Gould has debunked the misuse of statistics
by so-called IQ tests at length in "The Mismeasure of Man,"
which, in 1981, anticipated the false arguments of
"The Bell Curve" by many years.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

You both clearly demonstrated the fact that IQ tests are very close to
useless to measure whatever

That's the kind of stuff (equally valid answers) that used to make me
crazy in school, when I took bullets for answering as above when it was
a poorly designed test that was the problem.

 

[Toby Inkster]

Or C -- while the others are useful for preparation of food, nail
clippers aren't.

C was originally "toilet brush", but I changed it to see how many people I
could trick.

 

[Richard Brooks]

It is well known that non-Westerners do poorly at Western IQ tests,
simply because the design of the IQ test assumes knowledge of Western
culture.

A typical IQ test question is along the lines of... spot the odd one
out:

A. Tin-opener
B. Wooden spoon
C. Nail clippers
D. Cheese grater

It assumes you know the typical contents of a Western kitchen.

Does that include student digs ? ;-)



Richard.

 

[R2G2]

That's the kind of stuff (equally valid answers) that used to make me
crazy in school, when I took bullets for answering as above when it was
a poorly designed test that was the problem.

That's the kind of school we use now to see if children can explain
and justify their answers, or just to get them to think and explore
what they know about a topic. The answer could also be:

B because it's natural, the others are made from man-made substances
(presuming they're alloys),

B because it burns, which is a non-reversible change, but the others
melt, and could be made solid again

D because the others have a 'p' in them

 

[Els]

That's the kind of school we use now to see if children can
explain and justify their answers, or just to get them to
think and explore what they know about a topic. The answer
could also be:

B because it's natural, the others are made from man-made
substances (presuming they're alloys),

B because it burns, which is a non-reversible change, but
the others melt, and could be made solid again

D because the others have a 'p' in them

A cause it's got a hyphen, the others have a space

B because it's the only one that actually says what it's made
of instead of what it's for

 

[Toby Inkster]

B because it's the only one that actually says what it's made
of instead of what it's for

A tin opener could theoretically be made of tin.

 

[Els]

A tin opener could theoretically be made of tin.

Not when spelled with a hyphen.

 

[dorayme]

There's been some stuff on IQ tests recently and it has been pointed out
that many answers are equally valid to some questions. On the whole though,
in our heart of hearts, we mostly know the answer (when we see it) that is
expected and that in itself is a test of some kind of intelligence
(involving background knowledge). The idea that different interpretations
can produce equally valid answers can be used to avoid having to get it
right. Just in case this point has not been made.

Clear as mud? OK, analogy, you test students for artistic flair and set a
task. Some students (who have none) splash stuff and call it modern art and
are indignant that it is judged down (imagine the arguments they can use!).
But in the end, they just have no talent in painting and this stuff won't
wash.

Not saying IQ tests are great or can't be misused, just that there are some
important predictive types of intelligence that can be tested by them...

dorayme

 

[WebMaster]

There's been some stuff on IQ tests recently and it has been pointed out
that many answers are equally valid to some questions. On the whole though,
in our heart of hearts, we mostly know the answer (when we see it) that is
expected and that in itself is a test of some kind of intelligence
(involving background knowledge). The idea that different interpretations
can produce equally valid answers can be used to avoid having to get it
right. Just in case this point has not been made.

Clear as mud? OK, analogy, you test students for artistic flair and set a
task. Some students (who have none) splash stuff and call it modern art and
are indignant that it is judged down (imagine the arguments they can use!).
But in the end, they just have no talent in painting and this stuff won't
wash.

Not saying IQ tests are great or can't be misused, just that there are some
important predictive types of intelligence that can be tested by them...

I have an IQ over 150, when measured by those stupid tests. This makes me a
genius (even when I take english based tests, while english sure as hell
isn't my native language (I can manage 7 languages, english being the
4th.)). Most of the time, I'm downright stupid
IQ tests do not show anything but how good you are at a specific test at a
specific moment...

Rudy

 

[the idiot]

out:


do.

Or C -- while the others are useful for preparation of food, nail
clippers aren't.

they are if you like to eat nails.

 

[(Pete Cresswell)]

Per WebMaster:

IQ tests do not show anything but how good you are at a specific test at a
specific moment...

If you had to work with 10 people on a fairly-complex project would you chose to
work with:

1) 10 people with room-temperature IQs

2) 10 people with IQ scores above 120

?

 

[ronco]

You are using an argument that is from the 1930's. Tests made later are
designed to be "multi-culural."

They would ask questions like:

If there are are only 4 dogs and 3 chickens in a barn, how many feet
are touching the ground?

A: 8
B: 22
C: 24
D: 20
E: 18

.... this assumes you know what a dog, chicken, and floor are.



....also, how would your question cause lower scores among black
americans? They know what those kitchen implements are.

 

[Barbara de Zoete]

Per WebMaster:

If you had to work with 10 people on a fairly-complex project would you chose
to work with:

1) 10 people with room-temperature IQs

2) 10 people with IQ scores above 120

That fully depends on for whome the notion 'complex' is valid. If it is complex
for the first group, but not at all for the last, I might choose the first
group. For them the project will be and stay a challange. The other group will
soon get bored.
If it is complex for the second group, the first will obviously not be the one
you want steering the boat. But rowing, maybe.

If it is complex for you, but not for those groups, well ...

--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'

 

[Toby Inkster]

If there are are only 4 dogs and 3 chickens in a barn, how many feet
are touching the ground?

A: 8
B: 22
C: 24
D: 20
E: 18

... this assumes you know what a dog, chicken, and floor are.

Answer is E. Chickens are birds. Two of them are flying around.

...also, how would your question cause lower scores among black
americans?

It wouldn't. And I have no evidence that black Americans *do* score poorly
on the particular question I posed.

My question was an example of a question that will cause some groups of
otherwise intelligent people difficulties.

IQ tests, while supposedly testing *intelligence* also assume a base level
of *knowledge* about supposedly "every-day" concepts.

Realistically, they *have* to assume a body of knowledge. Ideally,
everyone taking the tests already knows this knowledge, so they can
compete in the intelligence test with an equal footing. Practically
though, "every-day" knowledge varies culturally -- not just by geography,
but by religion, gender, age, socio-economic class and other factors.

Consider a test arranging a group of words in alphabetical order. A Greek
may put "Zulu" before "Oscar", because in the Greek alphabet, zeta
(ζ) comes before omicron (ο) and omega (ω).

Pure intelligence tests are difficult.

Some aspects of intelligence may be tested purely -- tangrams are a good
pure test of intelligence, but they only test one aspect (spacial
awareness) and ones ability improves with practice.

But a truly comprehensive pure intelligence test has so far eluded us.

 

[Toby Inkster]

I have an IQ over 150, when measured by those stupid tests.

These online IQ tests are not a good guide to go by. They consistantly
over-inflate IQ scores to make people feel good about themselves and keep
people coming back.

I recently got an IQ score of 155 in an online test, but in a somewhat
more reliable test (a book endorsed by Mensa, who have a vested interest
in accurate IQ measurement), scored nearly 20 points lower than that.

 

[Els]

Pure intelligence tests are difficult.

Some aspects of intelligence may be tested purely --
tangrams are a good pure test of intelligence, but they
only test one aspect (spacial awareness) and ones ability
improves with practice.

But a truly comprehensive pure intelligence test has so far
eluded us.

Those tests they do with chimpansees come pretty close though.
You know, the ones where they put a banana in a tube that's too
narrow for them to enter and see how they solve the problem ;-)