Re: Seeking computer-programming job (Sunnyvale, CA)

[BartC]

I've received lots of positive messages from Lisp enthusiasts over the
years.

Lisp users do seem to be a rather fanatical lot, according to what I see in
comp.programming. I see that as a bigger turn-off than the language itself
(which is almost devoid of syntax so increasing complexity in other areas).

....
Infix notation for Lisp: ....
``CGOL'' Algol-like front-end for Common Lisp: ....
Scribble: markup syntax embedded in Lisp: ....
TwinLisp: C/Java-like syntax over Common Lisp:

....

All seem to be attempts to add that missing syntax to Lisp...

 

[Lew]

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
....

Completely moronic material written by someone who is appears to be complete
newbie to the static-versus-dynamic debate, and hasn't even done the
basic background googling in preparation for writing this diatribe. ....
There must be some problem at your end.

Probable diagnosis: ignorance combined with flapping gums. ....
That simply because the internet [sic] has an ``I'm a misinformed moron'' button
which [sic] produces a predictable, repeatable result. If you keep pushing it,
you will keep getting the same result.

Plonk.

 

[Lew]

I think you misunderstand his intentions. Making excuses and avoiding
responsibility is precisely his purpose.

Perhaps you misunderstand my intentions. You're certainly entitled to think
what you will about what I understand, but don't be surprised if you miss the
mark.

A while ago he started a similar thread, and not being aware of who he
was I tried to help him with his CV. All I got in reply was verbal
abuse and excuses.

I've been around Usenet a little while. Even had I not seen messages from the
OP before, I would still understand what I was dealing with. This does not
preclude a straightforward response to what was, after all, a perfectly
reasonable request for advice and opinions. I do not expect nor require that
anyone on Usenet accept advice that I've given.

For the record, in this thread at least I see no evidence of "verbal abuse"
from the OP, but I do see judgmental remarks from you, Tamas.

 

[Kaz Kylheku]

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
...

Completely moronic material written by someone who is appears to be complete
newbie to the static-versus-dynamic debate, and hasn't even done the
basic background googling in preparation for writing this diatribe. ...
There must be some problem at your end.

Probable diagnosis: ignorance combined with flapping gums. ...
That simply because the internet [sic] has an ``I'm a misinformed moron'' button

I'm tired of capitalizing ``the internet''. It's about time to stop doing it.
There is no good reason to. We don't capitalize ``the world'', for instance,
or ``the power grid''.

So you can [sic] that where the sun don't shine. Pardon me, ``doesn't''.

which [sic] produces a predictable, repeatable result. If you keep pushing it,

Not sure what you are bitching about here. Since ``which'' is spelled
correctly, I suppose you are bemoaning the lack of a comma. Well, I have
news for you: it doesn't belong there.

A comma is used before which when its antecedent is the preceding clause as a
whole. Here, it just refers to ``button'', so the comma is not appropriate.

Go repeat seventh grade.

Plonk.

A petulant overture. Nobody gives a rat's what's in your kill file.

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

Lisp users do seem to be a rather fanatical lot, according to what I see
in comp.programming. I see that as a bigger turn-off than the language
itself ...

cue Joey Buttafucco

(which is almost devoid of syntax so increasing complexity in
other areas).

Yep, two good examples being the crazy street patterns of Boston and
Washington, DC.

...

All seem to be attempts to add that missing syntax to Lisp...

Don't forget Dylan!

 

[Phlip]

I'm tired of capitalizing ``the internet''. It's about time to stop doing it.
There is no good reason to. We don't capitalize ``the world'', for instance,
or ``the power grid''.

Wired's style guide no longer capitalizes the interthing - for exactly the same
reason...

 

[Lew]

Phlip wrote:

Neither "world" nor "power grid" are coined proper nouns as "Internet" is,
referring as it does to a specific network given its name via a standards
document, namely RFC 675. It is, of course, your right to be wrong.

Wired's style guide no longer capitalizes the interthing - for exactly
the same reason...

I don't recognize Wired as the ultimate arbiter of English usage. If they
chose to spell my name "lew" instead of "Lew", it wouldn't change the fact
that the latter is correct, referring to a specific entity, coincidentally
also ratified by a standards document.

 

[Phlip]

I don't recognize Wired as the ultimate arbiter of English usage. If
they chose to spell my name "lew" instead of "Lew", it wouldn't change
the fact that the latter is correct, referring to a specific entity,
coincidentally also ratified by a standards document.

The compression technique called "huffman encoding" has achieved the same
status. (But Wired is just another tool of The Man...)

 

[Series Expansion]

From: Lew

Robert Maas,http://tinyurl.com/uh3twrote:

Upgrade.

Let's see: he needs money to buy a newer computer, a job to get money,
and a newer computer to get a job. Eh. Thorny problem. I'll post again
when I've figured out how he can escape this catch-22.

 

[Series Expansion]

A typical highly effective use of Common Lisp for that would be that the
Lisp programmer would develop and maintain domain specific languages for
the various parts of the insurance business...

(yadda, yadda, yadda)

Yes, but can you write a GUI app in any dialect of Lisp and port it
easily to Windows, MacOS, and Linux, and distribute it as a simple run-
this-installer-and-away-you-go form convenient for end-users?

This is the test a language or implementation must pass before it will
see much use outside of academia and unique deployments (like that
insurance company's internal systems).

It's a test that Java, as well as (with some third-party libraries
like SDL) C and C++ have passed. I'm not aware of any Lisp that has
passed it. If there is one, I would be very interested to hear about
it, however!

 

[thomas.mertes]

Ah - Mac OS X?

It has a makefile, but I haven't tried building with it:[/QUOTE]

Can you do me a favor and try it (I have no possibility to do).
I would be interested to know whether it compiles without
changes and wether some explanations are needed in the
file src/read_me.txt .

Thanks for your effort in advance.

Greetings Thomas Mertes

Seed7 Homepage: http://seed7.sourceforge.net
Seed7 - The extensible programming language: User defined statements
and operators, abstract data types, templates without special
syntax, OO with interfaces and multiple dispatch, statically typed,
interpreted or compiled, portable, runs under linux/unix/windows.

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

(yadda, yadda, yadda)

Yes, but can you write a GUI app in any dialect of Lisp and port it
easily to Windows, MacOS, and Linux, and distribute it as a simple run-
this-installer-and-away-you-go form convenient for end-users?
Yes.


This is the test a language or implementation must pass before it will
see much use outside of academia and unique deployments (like that
insurance company's internal systems).

Passed the test, didn't help. No, the test it must pass is is it The
Latest Thing. We're thinking maybe on our hundredth anniversary we'll
get there.

It's a test that Java, as well as (with some third-party libraries
like SDL) C and C++ have passed. I'm not aware of any Lisp that has
passed it. If there is one, I would be very interested to hear about
it, however!

Common Lisp. You have a few portable GUIs to choose, one
commercial/supported.

Oh, sorry, does that destroy your point?

kt

 

[Series Expansion]

Yes.

With what variant?

Common Lisp. You have a few portable GUIs to choose, one
commercial/supported.

Common Lisp? I recall not long ago doing a search on that. I couldn't
find a single free Windows implementation. I found a single free
implementation TOTAL, Linux-only. Nothing there suggested the use of
their development tools could produce stand-alone deployable
applications, either.

Oh, sorry, does that destroy your point?

I had no point. I had a question. You have partially answered it. A
URL to a free Windows implementation that produces apps that can be
easily installed on machines without a development kit and can be
ported to MacOS and Linux, and that has GUI capabilities (and other
stuff, such as at least as much ability to access the host filesystem,
network, and similar infrastructure as Java can) would be nice.

Furthermore, such a URL would be smoking-gun evidence to support
*your* point.

 

[Espen Vestre]

Let's see: he needs money to buy a newer computer, a job to get money,
and a newer computer to get a job. Eh. Thorny problem. I'll post again
when I've figured out how he can escape this catch-22.

Oh come on! You don't have to *buy* a computer that has at least 50x the
specs of the one he's got. He's living in Silicon Valley, not on the
Bouvet Island!

 

[Frank GOENNINGER]

Come on. From this two sentences you think you have insight into my
coding approach. I would say you probably don't have the slightest
clue what I use as coding approach.

Well, it does tell that you rely on the compiler to check the type of an
object. I do say that a pure static typing is a PITA when aiming at
reusable code. I had to do coding where I could not foresee all possible
data types being used - just "objects".

With dynamic typing in mind you probably will not make any errors.

Huh? Oh my. Did you ever really do any reasonably sized app for
production use? Wow - I will not let my fellow co-workers here or read
that statement of yours. They might be asking for doing dynamic typing
/only/ in the future...

Do you ignore possible type errors and just omit code coveage tests?

When strictly needed then I am asking my long-term pal for help (assert).

C is probably not the best language to see an advantage in a
static type system.

Which language do you have in mind as being appropriate ?

If you wanted to impress me you should have started coding much
earlier.

Sorry. That's a thing you need to address to my parents. They haven't
been together earlier, so ...

I started to study computer science in 1980 and I have
programmed since 1978 in many languages. I have more than 20 years
C/C++ experience, approx. 12 years Pascal and also in many other
languages (Java, ...) . About dynamic languages: The predecessor
of Seed7 was a dynamic language and I used it for more then 12
years. So I can also say "Been there, done that".

And Seed7 was the ultimate result of all this experience?

Just that I
introduced static type checks and other things to a dynamic
language. Seed7 still has dynamic features. It took me a very
long to find it out: Static and dynamic features can be combined,
but it is necessary to explicitely state when you want to do
something dynamic. You define DYNAMIC functions which dispatch
at runtime. See

http://seed7.sourceforge.net/manual/objects.htm

And Lisp does it the other way: Give freedom to the programmer and
provide ways to limit freedom when she explicitely asks for it. You
know - Lisp comes with Bondage Included.

Do you want to establish yourself as higher ranking than me?
Does it make your arguments (where are they anyway) better?
Cool down, I belive that you have knowledge, but I have also
knowledge.

Now you're going psycho. Another case of inferiority complex.

See above

I looked. But I couldn't find reference to an application. You want me
to name one of mine ? (Show-me-yours-and-I'll-show-you-mine games are so
exciting ;-)

What do you mean with that sentence?
Do you own a mac or assume that I use one?
Well, I don't use Mac OS X, but I have reports that Seed7 can be
compiled on Mac OS X. You just need to install XCODE and then you
can use the makefile mk_osx.mak (Until now I was not able to check
it, but the chances are intact).

Ok, I got hooked. So I downloaded Seed7 source code from Sourceforge. I
then issued a

frgo@ccde007 ~/Downloads/seed7/src
$ make -f mk_osx.mak

and got:

cc -O2 -g -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Winline -Wconversion -Wshadow -Wpointer-arith -c hi.c
hi.c:28:21: error: version.h: No such file or directory
In file included from hi.c:35:
sigutl.h:37: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:36:
data.h:137: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:37:
infile.h:95: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:96: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:97: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:98: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:99: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:100: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:101: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:102: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:103: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
infile.h:104: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:38:
syvarutl.h:63: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
syvarutl.h:64: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:39:
identutl.h:43: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
identutl.h:44: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
identutl.h:45: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
identutl.h:46: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:40:
entutl.h:54: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:55: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:56: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:57: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:58: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:59: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:60: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:61: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
entutl.h:62: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:41:
findid.h:51: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
findid.h:52: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
findid.h:53: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
findid.h:54: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
findid.h:55: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:42:
symbol.h:67: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
symbol.h:69: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
symbol.h:70: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:43:
analyze.h:35: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
analyze.h:36: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:44:
traceutl.h:74: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:75: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:76: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:77: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:78: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:79: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:80: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:81: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:82: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:83: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:84: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:85: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:86: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:87: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:88: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:89: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:90: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:91: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:92: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:93: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:94: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:95: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:96: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
traceutl.h:97: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:45:
exec.h:40: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
exec.h:41: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
exec.h:42: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
exec.h:43: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
exec.h:44: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
exec.h:45: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
exec.h:46: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:46:
option.h:60: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:47:
runerr.h:50: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
runerr.h:51: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
runerr.h:52: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
runerr.h:53: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
runerr.h:54: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
runerr.h:55: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
runerr.h:56: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
runerr.h:57: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:49:
flt_rtl.h:61: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:62: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:63: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:64: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:65: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:66: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:67: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:68: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
flt_rtl.h:69: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
In file included from hi.c:50:
scr_drv.h:58: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:59: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:60: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:61: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:62: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:63: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:64: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:65: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:66: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:67: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:68: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:69: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
scr_drv.h:70: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
hi.c:60: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype
make: *** [hi.o] Error 1

This is on OS X 10.5.6 with Xcode 3.1.2 (the latest one). So, aside from
the compile warnings, there's a whole file missing here (hint:
version.h).

As I was *really* hooked I took the trouble and fired up Xcode, created
an new project and imported all source files into it.

The first run of a build showed that even more files are missing:
version.h, gmp.h - at that point I decided to give up.

Based on the 1111 errors and 809 warning the build run gave me I'd
estimate more than a day of effort to get this to compile on OS X.

As it stands a lot of the errors are depending on gmp.h...

At least I tried.

Frank

 

[Phlip]

Let's see: he needs money to buy a newer computer, a job to get money,
and a newer computer to get a job. Eh. Thorny problem. I'll post again
when I've figured out how he can escape this catch-22.

You can get a Pentium computer for a couple bucks at a swap meet, and a Ubuntu
CD for free. Boom - a fully modern OS with every programming tool known to humanity.

Oh, then he needs a network connection. Hayes modem?

 

[Espen Vestre]

Oh, then he needs a network connection. Hayes modem?

I think it should even be possible to get a laptop with built-in wifi
for free these days..., and if not, get a laptop with pcmcia slot and a
wifi card for $15, and head off to the nearest starbucks...

 

[thomas.mertes]

Well, it does tell that you rely on the compiler to check the type of an
object. I do say that a pure static typing is a PITA when aiming at
reusable code. I had to do coding where I could not foresee all possible
data types being used - just "objects".

In this case you might use templates.

Huh? Oh my. Did you ever really do any reasonably sized app for
production use?

Here I used a concept known as sarcasm.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Which language do you have in mind as being appropriate ?

I just wanted to point out that automatic casts and void * are big
holes in a type system. Therefore type errors may be undetected.

Sorry. That's a thing you need to address to my parents. They haven't
been together earlier, so ...


And Seed7 was the ultimate result of all this experience?

No. It is just the beginning...
Seed7 should grow and everybody is invited to help.

And Lisp does it the other way: Give freedom to the programmer and
provide ways to limit freedom when she explicitely asks for it. You
know - Lisp comes with Bondage Included.

Seed7 allows dynamic things based on a static type system.
It is just necessary to say where you want dynamic dispatch or
for which types you want a template instantiated.

Now you're going psycho. Another case of inferiority complex.

Come on. You started to talk how experienced you are.
Ask my family if I have an inferiority complex or just the
opposite.

In general: Personal attacks lead to nowhere.
Can we agree to ommit them.

I looked. But I couldn't find reference to an application.

The programs that I developed for various companys since 1988 are
not available in the Internet. Besides Seed7 I did some development
for Wine. As I said the predecessor of Seed7 (named HAL) was highly
dynamic. I used HAL for various hobby programs for approx. a dozen
years. But I missed the compiler telling me about type errors before
executing the program. Therefore I turned the HAL interpreter (hence
I still use the name hi) into a Seed7 interpreter. I ported most HAL
programs to Seed7 except for some text adventure games and other
stuff. As soon as Seed7 will be able to support this programs I will
port them to Seed7 as well.

You want me
to name one of mine ? (Show-me-yours-and-I'll-show-you-mine games are so
exciting ;-)

No, I am not interested.

Ok, I got hooked. So I downloaded Seed7 source code from Sourceforge. I
then issued a

frgo@ccde007 ~/Downloads/seed7/src
$ make -f mk_osx.mak

and got:

cc -O2 -g -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Winline -Wconversion -Wshadow -Wpointer-arith -c hi.c
hi.c:28:21: error: version.h: No such file or directory
...

You forgot a 'make depend'. The normal way of compiling would be:

make -f mk_osx.mak depend
make -f mk_osx.mak

Since the failed attempt produced some unneeded files it is
necessary to do:

make -f mk_osx.mak clean
make -f mk_osx.mak depend
make -f mk_osx.mak

Maybe I should add a more detailed description to the files
seed7/read_me and seed7/src/read_me.txt .

Sorry for the trouble. I hope you have a second try.

This is on OS X 10.5.6 with Xcode 3.1.2 (the latest one). So, aside from
the compile warnings, there's a whole file missing here (hint:
version.h).

The file version.h is generated with 'make depend'

As I was *really* hooked I took the trouble and fired up Xcode, created
an new project and imported all source files into it.

The first run of a build showed that even more files are missing:
version.h, gmp.h - at that point I decided to give up.

The aproach with 'make' was the right one.

A tool like Xcode tries to compile every *.c file in a directory.
Even the ones that are provided as alternative solution for other
operating systems or other librarys. Since Seed7 can be compiled
under Windows also there are driver files for graphics, console,
keyboard, directory access and other stuff in several variations.
The makefile decides which files are used and which are ignored.

Based on the 1111 errors and 809 warning the build run gave me I'd
estimate more than a day of effort to get this to compile on OS X.

With

make -f mk_osx.mak clean
make -f mk_osx.mak depend
make -f mk_osx.mak

It should not take that long.

As it stands a lot of the errors are depending on gmp.h...

GMP is the GNU Multiple Precision Arithmetic Library which could be
used as an alternative to the built-in big_rtl.c library. Both
support unlimited precision integers (at least as long as there is
enough memory).

At least I tried.

Don't give up. If you have questions, just ask.

Greetings Thomas Mertes

Seed7 Homepage: http://seed7.sourceforge.net
Seed7 - The extensible programming language: User defined statements
and operators, abstract data types, templates without special
syntax, OO with interfaces and multiple dispatch, statically typed,
interpreted or compiled, portable, runs under linux/unix/windows.

 

[Lew]

Let's see: he needs money to buy a newer computer, a job to get money,
and a newer computer to get a job. Eh. Thorny problem. I'll post again
when I've figured out how he can escape this catch-22.

I suggested one way upthread.

Another way is to get a job in an unrelated discipline to make the
money. A good friend of mine who is a talented programmer but didn't
have a college degree during the 2001 downturn drove a forklift in a
warehouse on the night shift for two years while he completed his
degree. Now he has a good job as a programmer and has purchased a
lovely home for his family.

We either have what we want in life or excuses for why we don't.

 

[Frank GOENNINGER]

In this case you might use templates.

I admit having no clue about Seed7 templates. If they are like C++
templates then I have to say no, I will definetly not expose myself to
that kind of pain again. I do know better solutions: Common Lisp.

Here I used a concept known as sarcasm.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Hehe, yeah. Problem is that with your writing style noone knows when you
are emtting sarcasm or sincere statements.

I just wanted to point out that automatic casts and void * are big
holes in a type system. Therefore type errors may be undetected.

Oha - now I know I was very fond of using void * and 4-star-programming
in C to get reasonable speed for sorting and searching functions while
not having to write separate functions for each new data type that came along.

[snip]

Seed7 should grow and everybody is invited to help.

Ah, I do smell a business here. What would be daily rates for the help?

[snip]

Come on. You started to talk how experienced you are.
Ask my family if I have an inferiority complex or just the
opposite.

No. Not the opposite, unfortunately. If you were a case of megalomania
then you'd straight refuse to post followups to my posts and had written
here that I am below your mental niveau. You didn't, and even fell for
this tempting line...

In general: Personal attacks lead to nowhere.
Can we agree to ommit them.

They are what makes Usenet the real Usenet. Besides, my statement was
just pure observation and personal opinion. Taking it as an insult only
comes from a - hm, how to say this without being interpreted as personal
attach again - well, maybe you suggest something yourself here and the
whole bunch of readers can stop laughing as laughing would be a kind of
reaction highee educated people than me classified as a human reaction
on stimuli .... eh - where was i ?

[snip]

You forgot a 'make depend'. The normal way of compiling would be:

make -f mk_osx.mak depend
make -f mk_osx.mak

Since the failed attempt produced some unneeded files it is
necessary to do:

make -f mk_osx.mak clean
make -f mk_osx.mak depend
make -f mk_osx.mak

Ooookaaaayyy - so I did as you told me. Results:

frgo@ccde007 ~/Downloads/seed7/src
$ make -f mk_osx.mak clean
rm *.o *.a depend a_depend b_depend c_depend version.h
rm: *.o: No such file or directory
rm: *.a: No such file or directory
rm: depend: No such file or directory
rm: a_depend: No such file or directory
rm: b_depend: No such file or directory
rm: c_depend: No such file or directory
rm: version.h: No such file or directory
make: *** [clean] Error 1

Hm. Okay. Some suggestions for changes:

1. In the makefile, change this:
clean:
rm *.o *.a depend a_depend b_depend c_depend version.h

into:

RM = rm -f

clean:
$(RM) *.o *.a depend a_depend b_depend c_depend version.h

2. Use a simple script to detect on which platform you are. Then select
the appropriate makefile and execute. No README to be maintained, no
nothing, even better user experience.

Maybe I should add a more detailed description to the files
seed7/read_me and seed7/src/read_me.txt .

No. As just said.

Sorry for the trouble. I hope you have a second try.

Oh, sure. You are talking to a Lisper here. We guys are dedicated and
determined people. ;-)

[snipped details on build process]

With

make -f mk_osx.mak clean
make -f mk_osx.mak depend
make -f mk_osx.mak

It should not take that long.

Confirmed. Took about 30 seconds total.

HI INTERPRETER Version 4.5.4741 Copyright (c) 1990-2009 Thomas Mertes
262 /Users/frgo/Downloads/seed7/lib/syntax.s7i
3518 /Users/frgo/Downloads/seed7/lib/seed7_05.s7i
32 level.sd7
3812 lines total
254133 lines per second
1699814 bytes
Current level is 4741

GMP is the GNU Multiple Precision Arithmetic Library which could be
used as an alternative to the built-in big_rtl.c library. Both
support unlimited precision integers (at least as long as there is
enough memory).

Knew that. Ah - we don't need a GMP to do unlimited precision integers
in Common Lisp. It's in the ANSI Standard - yada yada, sorry, couldn't
resist.

Don't give up. If you have questions, just ask.

No more questions open. I just delivered answers:
Yes, you could ease the build process.
Yes, it compiles and runs on OS X.
Yes, it runs ok on OS X.

I do hope I haven't been insulting by providing these answers. Gee -
this *is* Usenet. Get used to it - no, not you - all the lurkers and
anonymuous readers here -

Greetings Thomas Mertes

Hope to meet you eventually (in the English meaning, not the false German
"translation" ;-). I'll be not be in Ennepetal though for some
time.

Back to doing my own pet project: Cello NX. An application kit for
building GUIs based on hardware-accelerated OpenGL graphics based on
Cello from Ken Tilton based on Celtk from Ken Tilton and on Ltk based on
Cells from the same Ken and providing a wholly dynamic way of
implementing things being free of type bondage. Yes. I mean it.

Frank