Rouge Wave Library Port

Discussion in 'C++' started by nkprajapati@gmail.com, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Hi All,

    I am using off the shelf Rouge Wave library. But now I
    want to move to Open Source. Anybody aware of Open Source port of Rouge
    Wave Library ?

    These are some heavily used Rouge Wave classe :

    RWFile
    RWFileManager
    RWBTreeOnDisk
    RWCSting
    RWCWSting
    RWCTokenizer
    RWCollectable
    RWMutextLock
    RWCMutextLock
    RWDate
    RWTime
    RWSocket
    RWZone
    RWPtrMap
    RWTVMultiMap
    RWSoartedVector


    Thanks,
    Naresh Prajapati
    , Sep 6, 2006
    #1
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  2. [my OT] Re: Rouge Wave Library Port

    wrote:
    > [..] Anybody aware of Open Source port of
    > Rouge Wave Library ?


    You mean "Rogue Wave"?

    Wouldn't it be a copyright violation? I mean they designed it,
    so they hold the rights to the design itself, no?

    What you might want to look into is using another library whose
    design is similar to that of Rogue Wave, and port *your code*.

    > [..]


    V
    --
    Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
    I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
    Victor Bazarov, Sep 6, 2006
    #2
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  3. Re: [my OT] Re: Rouge Wave Library Port

    "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in message
    news:edmg1h$csn$...
    : wrote:
    : > [..] Anybody aware of Open Source port of
    : > Rouge Wave Library ?
    :
    : You mean "Rogue Wave"?
    :
    : Wouldn't it be a copyright violation?

    IANAL, but not necessarily.

    : I mean they designed it,
    : so they hold the rights to the design itself, no?

    The design itself is not protected by copyright.
    The specific implementation is.

    It would probably be possible to make a "clean room"
    reimplementation of the libraries from a spec of the
    libraries (class interfaces, func names+parameters).


    : What you might want to look into is using another library whose
    : design is similar to that of Rogue Wave, and port *your code*.

    This approach probably should be preferred anyway.
    Most of the classes listed by the OP seem to have an
    equivalent in the standard library or boost.org

    Cheers,
    Ivan

    --
    http://ivan.vecerina.com/contact/?subject=NG_POST <- email contact form
    Ivan Vecerina, Sep 6, 2006
    #3
  4. Re: [my OT] Re: Rouge Wave Library Port

    Ivan Vecerina wrote:
    > "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in message
    > news:edmg1h$csn$...
    >> I mean they designed it,
    >> so they hold the rights to the design itself, no?

    >
    > The design itself is not protected by copyright.


    Any proof of that? Thanks.

    V
    --
    Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
    I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
    Victor Bazarov, Sep 6, 2006
    #4
  5. Re: [my OT] Re: Rouge Wave Library Port

    "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in message
    news:edmnie$21b$...
    > Ivan Vecerina wrote:
    > > "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in message
    > > news:edmg1h$csn$...
    > >> I mean they designed it,
    > >> so they hold the rights to the design itself, no?

    > >
    > > The design itself is not protected by copyright.

    >
    > Any proof of that? Thanks.


    It's easy to prove that it's not protected by copyright on, say, Saturn,
    where there is no copyright law in effect. You'll have to specify the
    jurisdiction you want proof within.

    In British law, ideas cannot be copyrighted, only concrete "works". The
    types of work eligible for protection are literary, dramatic, artistic or
    musical works, the typographical arrangement of a published edition, a sound
    recording, a film or a broadcast. Even if the document the design comes from
    is copyrighted, you are free to take the idea and write it down in a
    different form, since you have not duplicated the copyrighted work.

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_2.htm#mdiv1

    This is why there are other forms of intellectual property law such as trade
    secrets and patents.

    Philip
    Philip Potter, Sep 6, 2006
    #5
  6. Re: [my OT] Re: Rouge Wave Library Port

    Philip Potter wrote:
    > "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in message
    > news:edmnie$21b$...
    >> Ivan Vecerina wrote:
    >>> "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:edmg1h$csn$...
    >>>> I mean they designed it,
    >>>> so they hold the rights to the design itself, no?
    >>>
    >>> The design itself is not protected by copyright.

    >>
    >> Any proof of that? Thanks.

    >
    > It's easy to prove that it's not protected by copyright on, say,
    > Saturn, where there is no copyright law in effect. You'll have to
    > specify the jurisdiction you want proof within.
    >
    > In British law, ideas cannot be copyrighted, only concrete "works".
    > The types of work eligible for protection are literary, dramatic,
    > artistic or musical works, the typographical arrangement of a
    > published edition, a sound recording, a film or a broadcast. Even if
    > the document the design comes from is copyrighted, you are free to
    > take the idea and write it down in a different form, since you have
    > not duplicated the copyrighted work.
    >
    > http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_2.htm#mdiv1
    >
    > This is why there are other forms of intellectual property law such
    > as trade secrets and patents.


    Thanks Philip, that makes sense. So, I can probably extend my question
    to the OP to read, "Wouldn't it be a violation of a copyright law or
    a patent infringement?" I do not know, of course, whether Rogue Wave
    has patented their library design, but before embarking on copying it,
    I'd probably think thrice.

    V
    --
    Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
    I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
    Victor Bazarov, Sep 6, 2006
    #6
  7. Jerry Coffin Guest

    Re: [my OT] Re: Rouge Wave Library Port

    In article <edmvpk$o6k$>,
    says...

    [ ... ]

    > Thanks Philip, that makes sense. So, I can probably extend my question
    > to the OP to read, "Wouldn't it be a violation of a copyright law or
    > a patent infringement?" I do not know, of course, whether Rogue Wave
    > has patented their library design, but before embarking on copying it,
    > I'd probably think thrice.


    At least in the US, Rogue Wave has only one patent, and it's not on the
    design of a library. They currently have no published patent
    applications. It's possible they have applied for a patent, but declined
    to have it published -- but I'd consider that somewhat doubtful (you
    can't collect damages from before it was published, as I understand it).

    --
    Later,
    Jerry.

    The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
    Jerry Coffin, Sep 7, 2006
    #7
  8. Guest

    There is no question of Patent violation. If software design would have
    been patentted, then you would not have web based mail, web site, and
    lots other stuff.


    Jerry Coffin wrote:
    > In article <edmvpk$o6k$>,
    > says...
    >
    > [ ... ]
    >
    > > Thanks Philip, that makes sense. So, I can probably extend my question
    > > to the OP to read, "Wouldn't it be a violation of a copyright law or
    > > a patent infringement?" I do not know, of course, whether Rogue Wave
    > > has patented their library design, but before embarking on copying it,
    > > I'd probably think thrice.

    >
    > At least in the US, Rogue Wave has only one patent, and it's not on the
    > design of a library. They currently have no published patent
    > applications. It's possible they have applied for a patent, but declined
    > to have it published -- but I'd consider that somewhat doubtful (you
    > can't collect damages from before it was published, as I understand it).
    >
    > --
    > Later,
    > Jerry.
    >
    > The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
    , Sep 7, 2006
    #8
  9. On 6 Sep 2006 04:10:46 -0700, wrote:
    >Hi All,
    > I am using off the shelf Rouge Wave library. But now I
    >want to move to Open Source. Anybody aware of Open Source port of Rouge
    >Wave Library ?
    >
    >These are some heavily used Rouge Wave classe :
    >
    > RWFile RWFileManager RWBTreeOnDisk RWCSting RWCWSting RWCTokenizer
    > RWCollectable RWMutextLock RWCMutextLock RWDate RWTime RWSocket RWZone
    > RWPtrMap RWTVMultiMap RWSoartedVector


    AFAIK, there is no OS 'port' (re-write) of RW libraries (which would
    be a great replacement for the C++ Standard library).
    You have 2 alternatives:
    1. Rewrite your code using an OS library with similar functional scope
    (eg. http://appinf.com/poco/info/index.html).
    2. You can find OS code for most of the above classes. Write
    wrappers/adapters for them that emulate the RW interfaces (at least
    the parts you use).

    Best wishes,
    Roland Pibinger
    Roland Pibinger, Sep 7, 2006
    #9
  10. Jerry Coffin Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > There is no question of Patent violation. If software design would have
    > been patentted, then you would not have web based mail, web site, and
    > lots other stuff.


    I'm not at all sure what you think you're talking about. In 1981, the US
    supreme court decided the case of Diamond V Diehr. To make a long story
    short, they ruled that the mere fact that all or part of an invention
    might be realized in software did not render it unpatentable material.


    Software patents in general

    The are some requirements that may immediately sound somewhat strange:
    patent law requires (among other things) that the invention be realized
    in some tangible form, so a patent rarely applies directly to the
    software itself -- instead, it applies to something like "A method of
    operating a computer [...]" or "A storage medium containing [...]" or
    something on that order.

    Nonetheless, within the other basic rules of what's patentable, you can
    certainly apply for and receive patents that apply to software.

    It's worth noting, however, that this varies throughout the world --
    European rules are different from those in the US. Japanese rules are
    somewhat different from those in either the US or Europe. Other
    countries, of course, differ from any of the above.

    It should also be noted that patents on software did not come about
    quickly or easily. There was a long and rather tortuous set of decisions
    before the 1981 decision. One that makes interesting reading is the
    decision on Gottschalk V. Benson.


    Coverage of specific applications such as Web-based mail

    Though it's arguable that the standards in these regards are too low,
    there's at least the general idea that to patent something, it has to be
    new, useful and novel. To use yoru example, I doubt that web-based mail
    meets even one of these requirements, not to mention all of them.


    References

    Diamond V. Diehr: http://tinyurl.com/537rp
    Gottschalk V. Benson: http://tinyurl.com/zlr8h
    US patent law [pdf] http://tinyurl.com/pjsg3

    --
    Later,
    Jerry.

    The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
    Jerry Coffin, Sep 9, 2006
    #10
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