[semi OT]: Smartphones and Python?

Discussion in 'Python' started by Martin Schöön, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
    but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
    in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
    for which I could write Python programs.

    A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
    deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
    tives?

    It struck me this must be the best place to ask.

    What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
    And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
    and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

    /Martin
    Martin Schöön, Feb 15, 2012
    #1
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  2. Martin Schöön

    MRAB Guest

    On 15/02/2012 20:58, Martin Schöön wrote:
    > First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
    > but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
    > in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
    > for which I could write Python programs.
    >
    > A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
    > deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
    > tives?
    >
    > It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
    >
    > What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
    > And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
    > and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.
    >

    Python has been ported to iOS, if you're thinking of going the Apple
    route:

    http://ipython.hozbox.com
    MRAB, Feb 15, 2012
    #2
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  3. Martin Schöön

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Martin Schöön <> writes:
    > A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
    > deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alternatives?


    It works pretty well with Maemo, though phones with that are not so easy
    to find. My ex-officemate wrote some SL4A (Android) apps in Python and
    said it was pretty easy to use, though some features were missing. I
    know that one missing feature was tkinter.
    Paul Rubin, Feb 15, 2012
    #3
  4. On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Martin Schöön <> wrote:
    > First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
    > but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
    > in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
    > for which I could write Python programs.
    >
    > A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
    > deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
    > tives?
    >
    > It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
    >
    > What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
    > And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
    > and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.


    Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
    it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
    isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.

    Geremy Condra
    geremy condra, Feb 16, 2012
    #4
  5. 在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8上åˆ10æ—¶19分15秒,geremy condra写é“:
    > On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Martin Schöön <> wrote:
    > > First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
    > > but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
    > > in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
    > > for which I could write Python programs.
    > >
    > > A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
    > > deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
    > > tives?
    > >
    > > It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
    > >
    > > What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
    > > And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
    > > and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

    >
    > Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
    > it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
    > isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.
    >
    > Geremy Condra

    In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
    check Jython. But I think a better data compression
    modules is more helpful.

    Patterns about arithmetic compressions and LZW are expired, but not those in mp4 for the commercial use.

    Thus, the time to install a complete OS on a tablet
    or mobile phone with LTE on the way.

    We need smaller HD or flashes in these small devices.
    88888 Dihedral, Feb 16, 2012
    #5
  6. 在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8上åˆ10æ—¶19分15秒,geremy condra写é“:
    > On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Martin Schöön <> wrote:
    > > First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
    > > but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
    > > in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
    > > for which I could write Python programs.
    > >
    > > A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
    > > deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
    > > tives?
    > >
    > > It struck me this must be the best place to ask.
    > >
    > > What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
    > > And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
    > > and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

    >
    > Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
    > it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
    > isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.
    >
    > Geremy Condra

    In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
    check Jython. But I think a better data compression
    modules is more helpful.

    Patterns about arithmetic compressions and LZW are expired, but not those in mp4 for the commercial use.

    Thus, the time to install a complete OS on a tablet
    or mobile phone with LTE on the way.

    We need smaller HD or flashes in these small devices.
    88888 Dihedral, Feb 16, 2012
    #6
  7. On 02/15/2012 07:38 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    > In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
    > check Jython. But I think a better data compression
    > modules is more helpful.


    Jython, though a very cool and useful implementation, relies on the Java
    virtual machine to run. It does not yet run on Dalvik, nor is it clear
    that it ever will. The project to port jython to Dalvik, but it died
    and the authors said, just use Android scripting. lame.
    Michael Torrie, Feb 16, 2012
    #7
  8. The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
    are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
    expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
    easily.

    Then I personally prefer python.
    88888 Dihedral, Feb 16, 2012
    #8
  9. The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
    are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
    expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
    easily.

    Then I personally prefer python.
    88888 Dihedral, Feb 16, 2012
    #9
  10. On 02/16/2012 07:53 AM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    > The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
    > are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
    > expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
    > easily.


    Umm what does this have to do with anything?

    You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
    Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
    patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
    are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
    fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.
    Michael Torrie, Feb 16, 2012
    #10
  11. On 2012-02-16, Michael Torrie <> wrote:


    > You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
    > Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
    > patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
    > are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
    > fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.


    I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
    where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
    JVM compatible .class files. Those files are then converted into .dex
    files to run on Davlik.

    I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
    code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?

    --
    Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! What I want to find
    at out is -- do parrots know
    gmail.com much about Astro-Turf?
    Grant Edwards, Feb 16, 2012
    #11
  12. On 2012-02-16, Grant Edwards <> wrote:
    > On 2012-02-16, Michael Torrie <> wrote:
    >
    >> You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
    >> Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
    >> patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
    >> are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
    >> fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

    >
    > I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
    > where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
    > JVM compatible .class files. Those files are then converted into
    > .dex files to run on Davlik.
    >
    > I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
    > code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?


    Apparently there was a project to do just that:

    http://code.google.com/p/jythonroid/

    But it's been abandonded in favor of SL4A, which offers a
    PythonForAndroid_r4.apk download. There's a book about Python on
    Android via SL4A called _Pro_Android_Python_with_SL4A_.

    http://www.apress.com/9781430235699

    Interesting...

    --
    Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! World War III?
    at No thanks!
    gmail.com
    Grant Edwards, Feb 16, 2012
    #12
  13. On 02/16/2012 10:38 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
    > I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
    > where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
    > JVM compatible .class files. Those files are then converted into .dex
    > files to run on Davlik.
    >
    > I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
    > code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?


    I think it has to do with the fact that Jython does dynamic class
    generation and loading. Similarly I don't think JBoss or Tomcat could
    be ported easily to Dalvik without making lots of changes to the class
    loading stuff. But I know nothing about Java, so I could be way wrong here.
    Michael Torrie, Feb 17, 2012
    #13
  14. 在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8下åˆ11æ—¶22分44秒,Michael Torrie写é“:
    > On 02/16/2012 07:53 AM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    > > The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
    > > are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
    > > expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
    > > easily.

    >
    > Umm what does this have to do with anything?
    >
    > You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
    > Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
    > patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
    > are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
    > fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.


    Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones.
    I don't think any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run applications.

    The memory systems in mobile phones are different from
    PCs. This is the current situation in the consumer
    electronics sector.
    88888 Dihedral, Feb 17, 2012
    #14
  15. 在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8下åˆ11æ—¶22分44秒,Michael Torrie写é“:
    > On 02/16/2012 07:53 AM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    > > The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
    > > are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
    > > expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
    > > easily.

    >
    > Umm what does this have to do with anything?
    >
    > You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
    > Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
    > patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
    > are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
    > fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.


    Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones.
    I don't think any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run applications.

    The memory systems in mobile phones are different from
    PCs. This is the current situation in the consumer
    electronics sector.
    88888 Dihedral, Feb 17, 2012
    #15
  16. Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

    On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    > Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
    > any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
    > applications.


    Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...

    I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
    that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!). Android is
    not simply a customized linux distribution. It's a special application
    environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
    machine. Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
    hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from
    the developers' and end users' points of view. Linux is just not a part
    of the user experience at all. It is true that Dalvik can call into
    native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
    of the Android user experience.

    Thus you can't just install any JVM on android. Thus cpython or jython
    just isn't part of it. For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
    that has been ported to ARM. For two, there aren't any hooks into the
    Android UI APIs even if you could get it running.

    Android is even being ported to the QNX kernel by the Blackberry folks,
    so they can have android compatibility on next-generation blackberries
    that run their own native OS.

    > The memory systems in mobile phones are different from PCs. This is
    > the current situation in the consumer electronics sector.


    I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
    this. But I don't understand most of your posts.
    Michael Torrie, Feb 18, 2012
    #16
  17. Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

    在 2012å¹´2月18日星期六UTC+8上åˆ9æ—¶51分13秒,Michael Torrie写é“:
    > On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    > > Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
    > > any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
    > > applications.

    >
    > Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...
    >
    > I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
    > that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!). Android is
    > not simply a customized linux distribution. It's a special application
    > environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
    > machine. Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
    > hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from


    Android is a Linux OS kernal plus a virtual machine which supports GUI services and a JIT compiler in law suites charged by Oracles now.

    A different set of shell tool to write some AP is not
    a new OS.

    It can be called a new IDE which supports manny services not well maintained by the free linux
    contributors in a loosely unorganized way.

    > the developers' and end users' points of view. Linux is just not a part
    > of the user experience at all. It is true that Dalvik can call into
    > native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
    > of the Android user experience.
    >
    > Thus you can't just install any JVM on android. Thus cpython or jython
    > just isn't part of it. For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
    > that has been ported to ARM. For two, there aren't any hooks into the
    > Android UI APIs even if you could get it running.
    >
    > Android is even being ported to the QNX kernel by the Blackberry folks,
    > so they can have android compatibility on next-generation blackberries
    > that run their own native OS.
    >
    > > The memory systems in mobile phones are different from PCs. This is
    > > the current situation in the consumer electronics sector.

    >



    > I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
    > this. But I don't understand most of your posts.


    You can use VMware like techniques to emulate another OS
    to support AP of different formats. This is not new at
    all.
    i
    88888 Dihedral, Feb 18, 2012
    #17
  18. Martin Schöön

    Andrew Berg Guest

    Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

    On 2/17/2012 10:51 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    > 在 2012å¹´2月18日星期六UTC+8上åˆ9æ—¶51分13秒,Michael Torrie写é“:
    >> On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    >> > Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
    >> > any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
    >> > applications.

    >>
    >> Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...
    >>
    >> I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
    >> that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!). Android is
    >> not simply a customized linux distribution. It's a special application
    >> environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
    >> machine. Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
    >> hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from

    >
    > Android is a Linux OS kernal plus a virtual machine which supports GUI services and a JIT compiler in law suites charged by Oracles now.
    >
    > A different set of shell tool to write some AP is not
    > a new OS.


    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, GUI adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod
    application incididunt ut labore et dolore magna Android. Ut linux ad
    minim veniam, quis python exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip
    ex hardware commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in Dalvik in
    voluptate velit esse cillum Java eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur
    sint kernel OS non proident, sunt in culpa qui shell deserunt mollit
    Oracle id est laborum.


    Sorry for the noise, but I'm hoping I can corrupt the bot's dictionary
    to make it more obvious.
    Andrew Berg, Feb 18, 2012
    #18
  19. Martin Schöön

    Lie Ryan Guest

    Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

    On 02/18/2012 12:51 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
    > On 02/16/2012 10:25 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
    >> Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
    >> any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
    >> applications.

    >
    > Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...
    >
    > I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
    > that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!). Android is
    > not simply a customized linux distribution.


    Strictly speaking, Android *is* a customized Linux distribution; what it
    is not is Android is not a GNU/Linux distribution.

    > It's a special application
    > environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
    > machine. Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
    > hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from
    > the developers' and end users' points of view. Linux is just not a part
    > of the user experience at all. It is true that Dalvik can call into
    > native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
    > of the Android user experience.


    Android does have a full Linux experience; what it lacks is the GNU
    experience. Unlike "normal" Linux distros, Android does not use GNU
    userspace, instead it have its own userspace based on bionic, toolbox,
    and dalvik. Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer's
    experience.
    Lie Ryan, Feb 18, 2012
    #19
  20. Martin Schöön

    Matej Cepl Guest

    On 16.2.2012 16:22, Michael Torrie wrote:
    > Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.


    In reality yes, but just technically speaking there is the project
    IcedRobot (http://www.icedrobot.org/), which is a fork of Android over
    OpenJDK.

    Best,

    Matěj
    Matej Cepl, Feb 18, 2012
    #20
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