sliding menus

Discussion in 'HTML' started by PoetStorm, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. PoetStorm

    PoetStorm Guest

    Hello again, I know I can find a lot of resources on the web as to how to do
    this but I wanted some opinions about compatibility and you all seem to be
    very well versed in different browsers. I would like a menu where
    subcategories for each menu entry would slide out upon mouseover. I am
    thinking I have to either go for DHTML or Flash, which one is more widely
    acceptable? Is there a better way or are there any real definite "no nos"
    Again thanks!

    --

    Laura
    ICQ 174756639
    AIM poetstrm425
    www.lioddities.com
    PoetStorm, Jul 28, 2004
    #1
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  2. PoetStorm

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Mark Parnell, Jul 28, 2004
    #2
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  3. PoetStorm

    Karl Groves Guest

    "PoetStorm" <> wrote in message
    news:JvENc.32202$...
    > Hello again, I know I can find a lot of resources on the web as to how to

    do
    > this but I wanted some opinions about compatibility and you all seem to be
    > very well versed in different browsers. I would like a menu where
    > subcategories for each menu entry would slide out upon mouseover. I am
    > thinking I have to either go for DHTML or Flash, which one is more widely
    > acceptable? Is there a better way or are there any real definite "no nos"
    > Again thanks!


    The complaints are many:
    Technical
    1) They often do not work *at all* if javascript is disabled
    2) They often render differently across platforms

    Usability
    1) They are often inaccessible to those with multiple types of disabilities
    2) They are often described as "slippery" even by experienced and
    able-bodied users.

    The impact of the above problems depends on the implementation.
    At the very least, you'll want to make sure that the top/ first link of the
    menu still works, even if javascript is disabled. Then, make sure that the
    link itself is large enough to click on without needing to be a friggin
    marksman with the mouse. (Google for Fitt's Law)

    -Karl
    Karl Groves, Jul 28, 2004
    #3
  4. PoetStorm

    Toby Inkster Guest

    PoetStorm wrote:

    > I would like a menu where subcategories for each menu entry would slide
    > out upon mouseover.


    This uses clicks rather than mouseovers, but it could be converted pretty
    easily: http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/menu/menu2.html

    That said, I think you'll find that clicks are *much* easier for the end
    user to use -- mouseovers will make your site a lot more fiddly.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Jul 28, 2004
    #4
  5. PoetStorm

    Sid Ismail Guest

    On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:50:17 GMT, "PoetStorm" <>
    wrote:

    : Hello again, I know I can find a lot of resources on the web as to how to do
    : this but I wanted some opinions about compatibility and you all seem to be
    : very well versed in different browsers. I would like a menu where
    : subcategories for each menu entry would slide out upon mouseover. I am
    : thinking I have to either go for DHTML or Flash, which one is more widely
    : acceptable? Is there a better way or are there any real definite "no nos"
    : Again thanks!


    Please avoid Flash.

    Best Site DHTML: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/

    Sid
    Sid Ismail, Jul 28, 2004
    #5
  6. PoetStorm

    Jeff Thies Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > PoetStorm wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I would like a menu where subcategories for each menu entry would slide
    >>out upon mouseover.

    >
    >
    > This uses clicks rather than mouseovers, but it could be converted pretty
    > easily: http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/menu/menu2.html
    >
    > That said, I think you'll find that clicks are *much* easier for the end
    > user to use -- mouseovers will make your site a lot more fiddly.


    That will be true for your linear example.

    For the common flyout example, the mouseovers are expected (I've done it
    both ways). A suitable setTimeout delay to give wobbly mice a chance to
    recover is key.

    Jeff
    >
    Jeff Thies, Jul 28, 2004
    #6
  7. PoetStorm

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > PoetStorm wrote:


    >> I would like a menu where subcategories for each menu entry would
    >> slide out upon mouseover.


    > This uses clicks rather than mouseovers, but it could be converted
    > pretty easily: http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/menu/menu2.html


    I wonder why you use js. With a few snippets of php you can achieve the same
    effect
    --
    Nico
    www.nicoschuyt.nl
    Nico Schuyt, Jul 30, 2004
    #7
  8. PoetStorm

    Karl Groves Guest

    "Nico Schuyt" <> wrote in message
    news:410a0d80$0$186$...
    > Toby Inkster wrote:
    > > PoetStorm wrote:

    >
    > >> I would like a menu where subcategories for each menu entry would
    > >> slide out upon mouseover.

    >
    > > This uses clicks rather than mouseovers, but it could be converted
    > > pretty easily: http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/menu/menu2.html

    >
    > I wonder why you use js. With a few snippets of php you can achieve the

    same
    > effect


    Depending on the amount of traffic to a site, you might not want all those
    back & forth trips to the server.
    10,000 sessions a MONTH? Not a big deal. Use PHP
    10,000 sessions an HOUR? Might want to consider not going with PHP

    -Karl
    Karl Groves, Jul 30, 2004
    #8
  9. PoetStorm

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Nico Schuyt wrote:
    > Toby Inkster wrote:
    >> PoetStorm wrote:
    >>
    >>> I would like a menu where subcategories for each menu entry would
    >>> slide out upon mouseover.

    >
    >> This uses clicks rather than mouseovers, but it could be converted
    >> pretty easily: http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/menu/menu2.html

    >
    > I wonder why you use js. With a few snippets of php you can achieve the same
    > effect


    A similar effect, but not the same effect. (The difference being speed.)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Jul 30, 2004
    #9
  10. PoetStorm

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > Nico Schuyt wrote:
    >> Toby Inkster wrote:


    >>> http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/menu/menu2.html


    >> I wonder why you use js. With a few snippets of php you can achieve
    >> the same effect


    > A similar effect, but not the same effect. (The difference being
    > speed.)


    I must admit I didn't consider the effects on speed and network traffic.
    Perhaps I should.
    The difference in speed however is hardly noticeable. Compare:
    http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.html (js) and
    http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.php (php)
    Note: The js solution pops up expanded during a split second in IE6.

    --
    Nico
    www.nicoschuyt.nl
    Nico Schuyt, Jul 31, 2004
    #10
  11. PoetStorm

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Nico Schuyt wrote:

    > The difference in speed however is hardly noticeable. Compare:
    > http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.html (js) and
    > http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.php (php)


    Was highly noticeable here as I'm currently downloading some big RPM
    files. 16 seconds to expand a menu on the PHP version versus about 1/16
    seconds to expand a menu on the Javascript version. :)

    Remember also that the menu is unlikely to be in a file on its own, but
    it's likely to be part of a much bigger document with lots of body text.
    In the PHP version, all this will be downloaded with every menu expand too!

    > Note: The js solution pops up expanded during a split second in IE6.


    Well, it is possible to work around the FOUC[1] by using CSS to collapse
    the menu instead of Javascript, but that breaks the menu in browsers with
    CSS support but no Javascript (they can't access the submenus).

    Besides which, the FOUC could be turned into a "feature": a handy preview
    of the full menu while the page is loading. Just add a little delay to
    menuinit().

    ____
    [1] Flash Of *Uncollapsed* Content. :)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Now Playing ~ ./scissor_sisters_-_take_your_mama_out.ogg
    Toby Inkster, Jul 31, 2004
    #11
  12. PoetStorm

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > Nico Schuyt wrote:


    >> The difference in speed however is hardly noticeable. Compare:
    >> http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.html (js) and
    >> http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.php (php)


    > Was highly noticeable here as I'm currently downloading some big RPM
    > files. 16 seconds to expand a menu on the PHP version versus about
    > 1/16 seconds to expand a menu on the Javascript version. :)
    > Remember also that the menu is unlikely to be in a file on its own,
    > but it's likely to be part of a much bigger document with lots of
    > body text. In the PHP version, all this will be downloaded with every
    > menu expand too!


    You convinced me :)

    >> Note: The js solution pops up expanded during a split second in IE6.


    > Well, it is possible to work around the FOUC[1] by using CSS to
    > collapse the menu instead of Javascript, but that breaks the menu in
    > browsers with CSS support but no Javascript (they can't access the
    > submenus).
    > Besides which, the FOUC could be turned into a "feature": a handy
    > preview of the full menu while the page is loading. Just add a little
    > delay to menuinit().


    > [1] Flash Of *Uncollapsed* Content. :)


    LOL
    --
    Nico
    www.nicoschuyt.nl
    Nico Schuyt, Jul 31, 2004
    #12
  13. PoetStorm

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <410b42b7$0$18084$>,
    says...
    > I must admit I didn't consider the effects on speed and network traffic.
    > Perhaps I should.
    > The difference in speed however is hardly noticeable. Compare:
    > http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.html (js) and
    > http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.php (php)


    Click click click.... that is the issue with IE and the php solution,
    because IE (retardedly) put that click sound on a page change. Click
    click click it is enough to drive one insane... (and most people
    haven't a clue how to turn it off)
    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
    Webcastmaker, Jul 31, 2004
    #13
  14. PoetStorm

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Webcastmaker wrote:
    > says...


    >> I must admit I didn't consider the effects on speed and network
    >> traffic. Perhaps I should.
    >> The difference in speed however is hardly noticeable. Compare:
    >> http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.html (js) and
    >> http://www.aqua-tech.nl/test/menu2.php (php)


    > Click click click.... that is the issue with IE and the php solution,
    > because IE (retardedly) put that click sound on a page change. Click
    > click click it is enough to drive one insane... (and most people
    > haven't a clue how to turn it off)


    Uhhh, I even have no clue how to put it *on* :) I hear nothing, neither
    with the js nor with the php one.
    --
    Nico
    www.nicoschuyt.nl
    Nico Schuyt, Jul 31, 2004
    #14
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