Software Needs Philosophers

[John Bokma]

I have no particular affinity for Xah's views, but what does get up my
nose is usenet Nazism.

That's because you're clueless.

 

[John Bokma]

John Bokma wrote:
[...]

You're mistaken. All you need to do is report it. After some time Xah
will either walk in line with the rest of the world, or has found
somewhere else to yell. As long as it's not my back garden and not
around 4AM, I am ok with it.

Walk in line with the rest of the world? Pah.

This is no-ones back garden.

Funny how people who always think they can "change Usenet" have no clue
about what Usenet is and how it works in the first place.

Usenet is just that, each server participating can be thought of as being
the back yard of the news master.

If you have no clue about how Usenet works, first read up a bit. What a
Usenet server is, a feed, and how Usenet is distributed.

And then come back if you finally have something to say that you can back
up.

 

[Rune Strand]

I'm sorry to trouble everyone. But as you might know, due to my
controversial writings and style, recently John Bokma lobbied people to
complaint to my web hosting provider. After exchanging a few emails, my
web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last
Friday.

(e-mail address removed)
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I can just declare my support. Reading Mr. Bokmas comments below [*]
certainly makes my suport stronger.

*
http://groups.google.com/group/comp...p7b9E_jTXH5EMe8d2Tvis0T&#doc_837dc168e2a56fa2

 

[olsongt]

That's because you're clueless.

--
John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html

Time for a game!

Both johnbokma.com and castleamber.com are hosted by seagull.net. Here
is a link to their TOS:

http://www.seagull.net/tos.html

Who can come up with the most violations that John is committing on
this thread? I count 4.

 

[Timo Stamm]

Tim N. van der Leeuw schrieb: [...]

but since I've stopped following threads originated by him

That's all you need to do if you are not interested in his posts.

You're mistaken. All you need to do is report it.

Why the hell should I do that? I find his postings interesting. Of
course I am just a pathetic, egocentric sock puppet with a dent in my
ego and not using my brains, according to your logic.

Thank you.

After some time Xah will either walk in line with the rest of the world > [...]

You sound like a villain from a James Bond movie.


Timo

 

[Stormcoder]

Five is not excessive when they are on topic and they are on topic. If
you don't like his posts ignore them, killfile them, whatever. I took
the time to write his ISP a supporting email because it is important to
keep unpopular speech, even more than popular speech, free. Censoring
usenet serves no good purpose.

 

[Ant]

That's because you're clueless.

Well argued. No really. Not quite sure what you base the allegations on
of course.

John, you're well out of order getting this guy into problems with his
ISP. Ken Tilton has it spot on - if everyone who wasn't interested in
what he had to say ignored it, then it would make it far easier for
those actually interested in the topic to reply, without a tirade of
off topic abuse to filter through.

I'm not a particular Xah fan, but I do find some of the threads
provoked by his posts interesting. What is more of a concern to me is
that he should have freedom to post on relevant newsgroups. Take a look
at his site. You'll find that he is actually interested in the 5 or so
newsgroups he cross-posts to, and his posts are general enough to apply
to each of them.

In short, get off of your soap box - if you don't like what the guy has
to say then *ignore it*.

FYI - I have written in support of Xah Lee to the ISP simply because I
don't see why your personal problem with the guy should cost him money.

 

[John Bokma]

Life is short, John Bokma. There are more important things in the
world than tattling on Xah to his host. Maybe you can start
experiencing them

Maybe check out my site first before you make another silly remark.
Typically that (almost?) everybody defending Xah has so little clue.

if you learn to make use of the 'next message' key.

Add up years of pressing that key, and add up the time it takes to send a
few emails.

If I considered Usenet a waste of time, I would have given up on it years
ago.

And finally, never thought about that it can be fun?

I've noticed it - but have you?

Since I mentioned, what do you think? (now wait...)

It would be only one post that could easily be ignored, if not for all
this rubbish that you and people like you feel the need to post (sure,

Yup, which is not going to stop. Posting "Don't feed the trolls" messages
don't help.

I realize I'm contributing to the problem). Isn't "hit & run posting"
better than a thread full of nonsense?

And ain't it cool that reporting Xah's abuse might stop both?

 

[John Bokma]

Both johnbokma.com and castleamber.com are hosted by seagull.net. Here
is a link to their TOS:

http://www.seagull.net/tos.html

Who can come up with the most violations that John is committing on
this thread? I count 4.

Be my guest: hostmaster at seagull dot net.

 

[Eli Gottlieb]

Time for a game!

Both johnbokma.com and castleamber.com are hosted by seagull.net. Here
is a link to their TOS:

http://www.seagull.net/tos.html

Who can come up with the most violations that John is committing on
this thread? I count 4.

Let's not drop to his level.

 

[John Bokma]

fup-to poster

Well argued. No really. Not quite sure what you base the allegations
on of course.

Like I said, clueless.

John, you're well out of order getting this guy into problems with his
ISP.

Based on what "order"? The law of the Usenet Kook?

Ken Tilton has it spot on - if everyone who wasn't interested in
what he had to say ignored it, then it would make it far easier for
those actually interested in the topic to reply, without a tirade of
off topic abuse to filter through.

If Xah posts to just one group, on topic, the problem is gone. But Xah
is spamvertizing his website, and hence posts to 5 groups (since I guess
that's a limit GG sets, not Xah), so he doesn't care that a post on
whitespace in Python ends up in a group on Java or Perl.

I'm not a particular Xah fan, but I do find some of the threads
provoked by his posts interesting. What is more of a concern to me is
that he should have freedom to post on relevant newsgroups.

He has.

Take a look
at his site. You'll find that he is actually interested in the 5 or so
newsgroups he cross-posts to, and his posts are general enough to
apply to each of them.

In that very rare case he should pick a single group that matches his
diatribe the best. And in the very rare case that 3 groups are on topic,
he could set a follow up to.

In short, get off of your soap box - if you don't like what the guy
has to say then *ignore it*.

No, that's the joke. I won't ignore it. And you're mistaken to think I
am the only one that has reported Xah.

It's simple: Xah has to stick to the netiquette, or complaints will go
to his next hosting provider. In the end Xah either pays quite some
money for bullet proof hosting (since that is what a host that offers a
safe haven to spammers is called), or he goes yelling somewhere else.

FYI - I have written in support of Xah Lee to the ISP simply because I
don't see why your personal problem with the guy should cost him
money.

So you waste money of an ISP... The decision has been made, a few days
ago even.

 

[Ant]

Getting eloquent isn't he? ;-)

 

[Mitch]

John Bokma wrote:
[...]

You're mistaken. All you need to do is report it. After some time Xah
will either walk in line with the rest of the world, or has found
somewhere else to yell. As long as it's not my back garden and not
around 4AM, I am ok with it.

Walk in line with the rest of the world? Pah.

This is no-ones back garden.

Funny how people who always think they can "change Usenet" have no clue
about what Usenet is and how it works in the first place.

Who said anything about changing it? I like it just the way it is.

Usenet is just that, each server participating can be thought of as being
the back yard of the news master.

Sure, each server has terms and conditions that apply, doesn't mean you
should be able to ban people from speaking just because you don't like
what they say. My point is that this isn't *your* back garden, it isn't
*my* back garden. It isn't something I own, and it *IS* something I can
filter and/or ignore. Someone shouting in your back garden is a whole
different ball game where your desires prevail. Not here. You know
what you are getting into when you sign in, and it is your
responsibility to deal with those you don't agree with personally.

I understand you consider his writings spam, and so can see why you have
reported him. All I'm saying is that as long as the articles are
remotely on topic, I believe he has a right to post his opinions here.

If you have no clue about how Usenet works, first read up a bit. What a
Usenet server is, a feed, and how Usenet is distributed.

And then come back if you finally have something to say that you can back
up.

Thankfully I'm aware enough of all the above that I don't feel the need.

As these are all opinions, I don't see any need to "back up" any of it.

 

[Bill Atkins]

If Xah posts to just one group, on topic, the problem is gone. But Xah
is spamvertizing his website, and hence posts to 5 groups (since I guess
that's a limit GG sets, not Xah), so he doesn't care that a post on
whitespace in Python ends up in a group on Java or Perl.
[snip]

--
John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html

Interesting. Doesn't your signature contain advertisements for your
website? Aren't you posting to five different groups?

 

[John Bokma]

fup to poster

John Bokma wrote:
[...]

Funny how people who always think they can "change Usenet" have no
clue about what Usenet is and how it works in the first place.

Who said anything about changing it? I like it just the way it is.

You don't.

[ .. ]

here. You know what you are getting into when you sign in, and it is
your responsibility to deal with those you don't agree with
personally.

I did.

I understand you consider his writings spam, and so can see why you
have reported him. All I'm saying is that as long as the articles are
remotely on topic, I believe he has a right to post his opinions here.

Where is *here*? That's exactly my point. All his posts go to 5 groups, as
the replies to his posts. I have no problem if he posts in one of those
groups, or even three if he sets a follow-up to. But Xah just dumps his
load in 5 groups, no matter if it's on topic in any of them.

And since they all promote his website, and Xah never joins the discussion
(except to cry wolf when he has been "harassed", overlooking that he has
been harassing Usenet for quite some time) I consider his posts spam. Yet
I report it as excessive cross posting.

As these are all opinions, I don't see any need to "back up" any of
it.

"My" opinion is shared by his hosting provider, and probably the next as
well, unless Xah decides to pay a bit more.

 

[Kay Schluehr]

I agree. It is not Xah who is the problem, but the 200 replies to him
telling him to go away.

To make a witty comment: Xah starts flamewars and people really *do*
like to contribute although they find it awfull. Xah is the star, who
undresses his mind. But good and sensitive people don't like liking to
contribute in those nasty battles and believe their time is deserved to
something less wastefull. I mildly disagree with attitude and tend to
think that most serious work is a waste of time. Xah lets people really
do what they want: ranting about other programming languages, ranting
about programming language communities ( which are mostly boring and
awfull but that's kind of a familiy thing: my family is boring and
awfull too but when being attacked it's still my family ) and ranting
about trolls that let them do what they want. Everything in the name of
Xah the lord of misrule. If any language community was actually cool -
unfortunetaly there is none - they would invite Xah to write essays for
them. A kind of weekly "Xah commentary" on the state of the language (
and of course its documentation and other languages etc. ). Maybe it
would evolve quite fine if Xah could be pacified?

 

[Mitch]

fup to poster

John Bokma wrote:
[...]

Funny how people who always think they can "change Usenet" have no
clue about what Usenet is and how it works in the first place.

Who said anything about changing it? I like it just the way it is.

You don't.

All that I snipped is your opinion, which is yours to do with as you
please. "I like it just the way it is." is *MY* opinion, so please
don't try to change it. I think I know my opinion best.

And as for setting it to reply to only you, I changed that back. I
don't think you censoring (redirecting) other peoples replies/opinions
serves the purpose of this thread well.

 

[D H]

To make a witty comment:
Xah is the star, who undresses his mind.

But good and sensitive people don't like liking to
contribute in those nasty battles and believe their time is deserved to
something less wastefull.

I mildly disagree with attitude and tend to
think that most serious work is a waste of time.

Everything in the name of Xah the lord of misrule.

Dude, pony up for another english class, so you can keep on trolling as
eloquently as Xah.

 

[Mumia W.]

I'm sorry to trouble everyone. But as you might know, due to my
controversial writings and style, recently John Bokma lobbied people to
complaint to my web hosting provider. After exchanging a few emails, my
web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last
Friday. [...]

I sent an e-mail to them to try to help you.

I hope you don't lose your account; I enjoy your postings.

 

[Mumia W.]

I was considering opening an account with Dreamhost. Can't say I agree
with all of Xah's writings, but they often raise important points.
Dreamhost is a company I will never spend money with. Usenet is full
of narrow minded group thinking that needs to be questioned.

Write abuse@dreamhost and tell them why you're not going to patronize
them. Explain to them that what they are doing to Xah you're not going
to support.

Who knows? Maybe Dreamhost isn't all that bad. Perhaps the worst thing
about Dreamhost is that John Bokma can harass Xah through them.

The idea that an ISP allows itself to be used like that is pretty bad,
but Xah hasn't lost his account yet.

Write something to the abuse address at Dreamhost in support of Xah.
It's not about whether Xah is correct on every issue; it's about
peoples' freedom to communicate on the Internet.

Otherwise, you could say something controversial, and John Bokma writes
your ISP/hosting service, and you get TOSSed.