VHDL Goto statement ?

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by Skybuck Flying, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. Hi,

    Does VHDL have a goto statement ?

    I would like to use a goto statement to prevent "expensive" procedure calls
    etc... (at least in pascal it would be expensive)

    But maybe for VHDL it doesn't matter if code is split up in procedures ?

    Still... It could be handy to write stuff in pascal with goto's and then
    later convert it to VHDL... but since it doesn't have goto's I guess those
    goto's will have to be replaced by procedure calls later.. ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Aug 8, 2005
    #1
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  2. Skybuck Flying

    Hubble Guest

    GOTOs inside the same scope can always be replaced by structural
    statements (IF, LOOP), not procedure calls. Pascal supports only such
    gotos. The efficiency of IF,LOOP is the same as for gotos, so there's
    no point.

    Hubble.
     
    Hubble, Aug 8, 2005
    #2
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  3. Skybuck Flying

    Andy Peters Guest

    Skybuck Flying wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Does VHDL have a goto statement ?
    >
    > I would like to use a goto statement to prevent "expensive" procedure calls
    > etc... (at least in pascal it would be expensive)
    >
    > But maybe for VHDL it doesn't matter if code is split up in procedures ?
    >
    > Still... It could be handy to write stuff in pascal with goto's and then
    > later convert it to VHDL... but since it doesn't have goto's I guess those
    > goto's will have to be replaced by procedure calls later.. ;)


    Ya know, your designs are doomed to fail because you've got a
    procedural software mindset.

    You're clearly not a hardware designer (as evidenced by your posts on
    sci.electronics.design) and you cannot impose a software mindset on
    hardware design.

    Instead of trying to learn VHDL, you should consider learning logic
    design. After you've mastered that, you can then see how you can use
    VHDL to Describe your Hardware.

    -a
     
    Andy Peters, Aug 8, 2005
    #3
  4. "Andy Peters" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Skybuck Flying wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > Does VHDL have a goto statement ?
    > >
    > > I would like to use a goto statement to prevent "expensive" procedure

    calls
    > > etc... (at least in pascal it would be expensive)
    > >
    > > But maybe for VHDL it doesn't matter if code is split up in procedures ?
    > >
    > > Still... It could be handy to write stuff in pascal with goto's and then
    > > later convert it to VHDL... but since it doesn't have goto's I guess

    those
    > > goto's will have to be replaced by procedure calls later.. ;)

    >
    > Ya know, your designs are doomed to fail because you've got a
    > procedural software mindset.
    >
    > You're clearly not a hardware designer (as evidenced by your posts on
    > sci.electronics.design) and you cannot impose a software mindset on
    > hardware design.
    >
    > Instead of trying to learn VHDL, you should consider learning logic
    > design. After you've mastered that, you can then see how you can use
    > VHDL to Describe your Hardware.


    Dude get real...

    Many, many, many people have programmed cpu's in high level languages...

    It's even possible to code a tiny cpu in assembler.

    I choose delphi since I am good at it.

    And coding a cpu in delphi/pascal where I am good in as already though
    enough.

    Actually it's not the programming that's though. The programming would be
    fucking simple, that's no challenge anymore for me.

    The problem is concepts, design, instruction set, shit like that.

    And since I am trying to do something which nobody has ever done before I
    have to invent it all myself ;)

    And that is going to cost lot's of time, and the end result would be what ?
    ;) maybe a crappy cpu or maybe a fun cpu or maybe something really
    asthnoshing... whatever I won't get rich from it... ;)

    It's probably going to be utterly fucking useless lol...

    If I write it in delphi/pascal at least I can use all that stuff in windows
    apps ;)

    Currently I just need a challenge ;) and this stuff is challenging :D

    Even if I can't do it in VHDL... it's still interesting and fun to see how
    it all works etc.

    So beat it... tututututututututututut

    Logic design ? man what the hell you talking about ? I have programmed for
    more than 10 years maannn...

    10 years man.. almost non stop man... gimme a break man... you better mean
    something else with logic shit man otherwise you aint dope man. I had enough
    logic in my ass to last a lifetime lol.

    Bye,
    Skybuck :p:p:p
     
    Skybuck Flying, Aug 8, 2005
    #4
  5. Skybuck Flying

    Niv Guest

    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:dd877s$tah$1.ov.home.nl...
    >
    > "Andy Peters" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Skybuck Flying wrote:
    >> > Hi,
    >> >
    >> > Does VHDL have a goto statement ?
    >> >
    >> > I would like to use a goto statement to prevent "expensive" procedure

    > calls
    >> > etc... (at least in pascal it would be expensive)
    >> >
    >> > But maybe for VHDL it doesn't matter if code is split up in procedures
    >> > ?
    >> >
    >> > Still... It could be handy to write stuff in pascal with goto's and
    >> > then
    >> > later convert it to VHDL... but since it doesn't have goto's I guess

    > those
    >> > goto's will have to be replaced by procedure calls later.. ;)

    >>
    >> Ya know, your designs are doomed to fail because you've got a
    >> procedural software mindset.
    >>
    >> You're clearly not a hardware designer (as evidenced by your posts on
    >> sci.electronics.design) and you cannot impose a software mindset on
    >> hardware design.
    >>
    >> Instead of trying to learn VHDL, you should consider learning logic
    >> design. After you've mastered that, you can then see how you can use
    >> VHDL to Describe your Hardware.

    >
    > Dude get real...
    >
    > Many, many, many people have programmed cpu's in high level languages...
    >
    > It's even possible to code a tiny cpu in assembler.
    >
    > I choose delphi since I am good at it.
    >
    > And coding a cpu in delphi/pascal where I am good in as already though
    > enough.
    >
    > Actually it's not the programming that's though. The programming would be
    > fucking simple, that's no challenge anymore for me.
    >
    > The problem is concepts, design, instruction set, shit like that.
    >
    > And since I am trying to do something which nobody has ever done before I
    > have to invent it all myself ;)
    >
    > And that is going to cost lot's of time, and the end result would be what
    > ?
    > ;) maybe a crappy cpu or maybe a fun cpu or maybe something really
    > asthnoshing... whatever I won't get rich from it... ;)
    >
    > It's probably going to be utterly fucking useless lol...
    >
    > If I write it in delphi/pascal at least I can use all that stuff in
    > windows
    > apps ;)
    >
    > Currently I just need a challenge ;) and this stuff is challenging :D
    >
    > Even if I can't do it in VHDL... it's still interesting and fun to see how
    > it all works etc.
    >
    > So beat it... tututututututututututut
    >
    > Logic design ? man what the hell you talking about ? I have programmed for
    > more than 10 years maannn...
    >
    > 10 years man.. almost non stop man... gimme a break man... you better mean
    > something else with logic shit man otherwise you aint dope man. I had
    > enough
    > logic in my ass to last a lifetime lol.
    >


    I think you're missing the point Skybuck.

    You have to understand the HARDWARE IMPLICATIONS of what VHDL is trying to
    achieve.
    You may be an excellent programmer & understand logic concepts (AND, OR
    etc), BUT
    that is not the same as understanding h/w.
    I think I have to agree with Andy Peters on this.

    Niv.
     
    Niv, Aug 8, 2005
    #5
  6. Skybuck Flying wrote:

    >>Ya know, your designs are doomed to fail because you've got a
    >>procedural software mindset.
    >>
    >>You're clearly not a hardware designer (as evidenced by your posts on
    >>sci.electronics.design) and you cannot impose a software mindset on
    >>hardware design.



    > Dude get real...
    >
    > Many, many, many people have programmed cpu's in high level languages...
    >
    > It's even possible to code a tiny cpu in assembler.


    Please! This is a VHDL newsgroup. Therefore you get VHDL-related
    answers. Programming software for a CPU is really different from
    modelling a CPU in hardware.

    Modelling hardware is more like e.g. AutoCAD - although it looks like
    programming software.



    > Logic design ? man what the hell you talking about ? I have programmed for
    > more than 10 years maannn...


    He is talking about flipflops, latches, combinational gates, tri-state
    gates and so on. If you want to model synthesizable circuits, you must
    not forget them.

    You can use VHDL as a programming language (see Ashenden's VHDL
    Cookbook) to _simulate_ some behavior - but remeber, that modelling
    hardware is something different. For simulation there may be other
    languages or tools, that may fit better. VHDL aims to hardware
    description and (additionally) offers simulation features.


    Ralf
     
    Ralf Hildebrandt, Aug 8, 2005
    #6
  7. "Niv" <> wrote in message
    news:fpNJe.1293$...
    >
    > "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    > news:dd877s$tah$1.ov.home.nl...
    > >
    > > "Andy Peters" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> Skybuck Flying wrote:
    > >> > Hi,
    > >> >
    > >> > Does VHDL have a goto statement ?
    > >> >
    > >> > I would like to use a goto statement to prevent "expensive" procedure

    > > calls
    > >> > etc... (at least in pascal it would be expensive)
    > >> >
    > >> > But maybe for VHDL it doesn't matter if code is split up in

    procedures
    > >> > ?
    > >> >
    > >> > Still... It could be handy to write stuff in pascal with goto's and
    > >> > then
    > >> > later convert it to VHDL... but since it doesn't have goto's I guess

    > > those
    > >> > goto's will have to be replaced by procedure calls later.. ;)
    > >>
    > >> Ya know, your designs are doomed to fail because you've got a
    > >> procedural software mindset.
    > >>
    > >> You're clearly not a hardware designer (as evidenced by your posts on
    > >> sci.electronics.design) and you cannot impose a software mindset on
    > >> hardware design.
    > >>
    > >> Instead of trying to learn VHDL, you should consider learning logic
    > >> design. After you've mastered that, you can then see how you can use
    > >> VHDL to Describe your Hardware.

    > >
    > > Dude get real...
    > >
    > > Many, many, many people have programmed cpu's in high level languages...
    > >
    > > It's even possible to code a tiny cpu in assembler.
    > >
    > > I choose delphi since I am good at it.
    > >
    > > And coding a cpu in delphi/pascal where I am good in as already though
    > > enough.
    > >
    > > Actually it's not the programming that's though. The programming would

    be
    > > fucking simple, that's no challenge anymore for me.
    > >
    > > The problem is concepts, design, instruction set, shit like that.
    > >
    > > And since I am trying to do something which nobody has ever done before

    I
    > > have to invent it all myself ;)
    > >
    > > And that is going to cost lot's of time, and the end result would be

    what
    > > ?
    > > ;) maybe a crappy cpu or maybe a fun cpu or maybe something really
    > > asthnoshing... whatever I won't get rich from it... ;)
    > >
    > > It's probably going to be utterly fucking useless lol...
    > >
    > > If I write it in delphi/pascal at least I can use all that stuff in
    > > windows
    > > apps ;)
    > >
    > > Currently I just need a challenge ;) and this stuff is challenging :D
    > >
    > > Even if I can't do it in VHDL... it's still interesting and fun to see

    how
    > > it all works etc.
    > >
    > > So beat it... tututututututututututut
    > >
    > > Logic design ? man what the hell you talking about ? I have programmed

    for
    > > more than 10 years maannn...
    > >
    > > 10 years man.. almost non stop man... gimme a break man... you better

    mean
    > > something else with logic shit man otherwise you aint dope man. I had
    > > enough
    > > logic in my ass to last a lifetime lol.
    > >

    >
    > I think you're missing the point Skybuck.
    >
    > You have to understand the HARDWARE IMPLICATIONS of what VHDL is trying to
    > achieve.
    > You may be an excellent programmer & understand logic concepts (AND, OR
    > etc), BUT
    > that is not the same as understanding h/w.
    > I think I have to agree with Andy Peters on this.


    Exactly hardware implications have nothing to do with logic design... It's
    more about concepts, algorithms, frequencies, bandwidth, caches, ram, rom,
    speeds, etc...

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Aug 9, 2005
    #7
  8. Now I think it would be a *very* good idea to stop feeding this troll.

    Nicolas
     
    Nicolas Matringe, Aug 9, 2005
    #8
  9. Skybuck Flying

    Rob Dekker Guest

    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message news:dd6i0q$kh8$1.ov.home.nl...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Does VHDL have a goto statement ?
    >


    No. (thank heaven).

    There are 'exit' and 'next' (like break and continue) from a loop,
    and there are 'return' statements from subprograms.

    These are 'jumps' out of the regular data flow, but nicely constrained and
    not a wildcard like a goto.
    Also, they are supported by synthesis tools (as well as simulators).

    > I would like to use a goto statement to prevent "expensive" procedure calls
    > etc... (at least in pascal it would be expensive)


    How do you define "expensive" ?
    Procedure calls synthesize as much hardware as if you would write them in-line.

    >
    > But maybe for VHDL it doesn't matter if code is split up in procedures ?


    That's right. At least for synthesis it is.
    For simulation, probably in-lining is slightly faster.

    >
    > Still... It could be handy to write stuff in pascal with goto's and then
    > later convert it to VHDL... but since it doesn't have goto's I guess those
    > goto's will have to be replaced by procedure calls later.. ;)
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
    >
    >
    >
     
    Rob Dekker, Aug 25, 2005
    #9
  10. Skybuck Flying

    ajahn Guest

    I think you are a bit rude here, Skybuck....
    Anyway, for the difference of programming programs and designing
    hardware:
    There actually are some approaches to "program" cpu's or hardware...
    These can be found in the virtual prototyping world. I worked in a
    project doing exactly this, programming models for hardware components
    to do design evaluations. Software is quite a lot faster than any
    vhdl-simulator and with such an approach you can really evaluate some
    aspects of hardware-software-codesign too. The only thing you need is a
    good concept of how to handle interfaces between the components and the
    timing of your "hardware".
    The bad news... Such models will never make real hardware! So there is
    not really a point to use vhdl for it. Some object oriented programming
    language is much better suited.
    If you want hardware, you have to take your model and rewrite it in a
    modeling language and here some of your problems may surface for the
    first time also.. since now you have to think not only hardware
    concepts but also low-level hardware...

    Okay.. enough for it...
    I hope this gives some ideas..
    Cheers,
    A.J.
     
    ajahn, Aug 26, 2005
    #10
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