What's wrong with this HTML (fails validation) ?

  • Thread starter robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t
  • Start date
A

Andy Dingley

If I do that, validation fails. Should I just ignore validation failure??

No, you should learn the difference between closing a tag and closing
an element.

You're using Berkeley, so I have to ask: Have you done a _lot_ of
drugs in the past?

Your posting style is just one anti-relativity rant short of a
k00kfile. Your postings are even longer than mine and you over-write
terribly. Your snip at Jukka's encoding was funny, then you went off
onto a long monologue about something I care not. You clearly have
_no_ ability to concentrate long enough to learn the most simple, yet
important, details (attribute quoting?) yet your vast rants are a
brain dump of some huge babbling unceasing inner turmoil.

I know people who have this style, and they use hooterfuls of coke.
What's _your_ excuse?
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

robert said:
OK, so you're saying I should avoid that syntax.


So that appendix says to go ahead and use <br />.
Since you disagree on that point, I assume you believe that

You seem to go round and round on this like a June Bug on a string.

Look if your document in *new* Use DocType:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

And do *not* use XHTML's single tag element syntax

<br /> <hr /> <img /> <link />

Do not use XHTML unless you have a compelling reason to do so. 99.99% of
the time you don't. "Because its cool" and "because X, Y, or Z, says
HTML is dead and XHTML is the future" are not good reasons. Also since,
whether you like it or not, the most popular browser does not handle
XHTML when served properly is another reason not to use it.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

robert said:
That's a snide way of implying that you're better than me because
you have enough money to afford a newer computer that is capable of
fullfledged direct InterNet access, so because you're better than
me you can make derogatory remarks about me without it being
"wrong".

I use a text-only browser because it's the **only** browser
available to me. So **** off with your stupid remarks about my
motivation for using a text-only browser.

I think you have it ass-backwards. If your document is for the *public*
(i.e., published to the Internet) then what *you* use for a browser is
not important. What *is* important is what your visitors will be using!
You code for them. So if this is for the Internet then your visitors,
(even those from 3rd-world countries) will using a CSS supporting, GUI
based browser! Even if you only access the web in Lynx your can design
and test your page local with <insert GUI browser of your choice> then
upload it when your done. Install Apache and make your development real
easy. Otherwise, screw-it and forego the HTML that you are battling with
and make it a plain text file and be done with it.
 
R

robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

From: "Andy Dingley said:
No, you should learn the difference between closing a tag and
closing an element.

I thought I already knew that:

////-tag that opens element /////-tag that closes an element (end tag)
<em>This is an emphasized sentence.</em>
| \-closing that tag | \-closing that tag
\-opening that tag \-opening that tag

So what's wrong with that, such that I still need to learn the difference?
Or are you just bullshitting me to waste everybody's time?
You're using Berkeley,

I don't quite know what you mean by that. I'm using a shell account
on a machine that runs FreeBSD Unix. Is that what you mean?
so I have to ask: Have you done a _lot_ of drugs in the past?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China???

I've never "done" drugs, any at all, not even alcohol or nicotine,
and I've consumed only a tiny bit of caffeine, much less than most
people in this society do. I fail to see how this is on-topic for
this newsgroup, except that if you plan to hire me to work for you,
but I need to pass a drug-free test first, I should pass perfectly,
so you can stop worrying, just go ahead and offer me a job now.
Your postings are even longer than mine and you over-write
terribly.

English (composition/expression) was always a difficult subject for
me. I just don't know how to express myself succinctly 99% of the
time. I never claimed to be a English-composition expert. I try to
explain what I mean, but it takes lots of extra words to try to say
clearly what I mean and prevent misunderstanding, and no matter how
much I say somebody still misunderstands and I have to come back
and explain what my explanation meant. I'm not applying for jobs
in writing literature or even newspaper reports, for good reason.
I'm not even applying for jobs writing final proof of glossy user
manuals, although I'd be fine at writing initial drafts of such
documents, then after somebody else who is expert at English cleans
up the wording I the proofread their results to see if they mangled
the technical stuff to be no longer correct.
You clearly have _no_ ability to concentrate long enough to learn
the most simple, yet important, details (attribute quoting?)

I put "< " at left margin of anything I quote from the previous
poster in the newsgroup thread, including the From: line of the
person who said it. How is that not acceptable to you?
 
A

Andy Dingley

I thought I already knew that:

No, you don't appear to know _anything_. You go round and round in
little circles over the obvious trivia, yet you don't _learn_ from
this. Then you post a vast screed about something unrelated.

Closing empty tags XML-style is causing you validation problems for
HTML (not surprisingly - it's wrong).

Closing non-empty elements with an explicit end tag is usually
optional in HTML, but it's a good current practice because it's simple
and consistent with XML practice. It does _not_ cause validation
failures.
Chances are that this is what your poor tutor tried to teach you, but
you mis-understood it as the first option.



To introduce a second topic into this post (which I just _know_ can't
be a good idea), there is no "HTML / XML Transitional" markup or
doctype.

HTML Transitional appeard in HTML 4 as a transition away from HTML
3.2 It's a "3.2 => 4" transition.

XHTML 1.0 also supports both Strict and Transitional, so that you can
convert HTML 4 Strict into XHTML Strict and you can jump straight from
HTML 3.2 to XHTML 1.0 Transitional as well. It's not a transition
"into XML" though.


In all seriousness, you don't need to learn HTML, you need to learn
Zen.
Mount Shasta has a good abbey and there's Mount Baldy too (do you like
Leonard Cohen?)
They can't be that far from Cupertino.
 
R

robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

From: "Jonathan N. Little said:
You seem to go round and round on this like a June Bug on a string.

I'm not familiar with the term "June Bug". I checked Google, and
one reference claims that's a mis-use of the word "bug" because
it's really a beetle, not a true bug. Is that what you're referring
to?

When I was visiting Houston, there were these flying arthropods
(maybe insects, maybe not) which engaged in sexual intercourse
while hovering in the air. The locals called them "do-it bugs". Is
that what you're referring to?

For completeness, I also looked up the exact phrase "June Bug on a
string", and I see it's a music title:
<http://cdbaby.com/cd/balch>
June Bug on a String (Balch, 1995) was inspired by a feisty June bug
that entertained the music contest judges at Uncle Dave Macon Days. A
thread was tied to his leg, and he flew in circles above us as we
listened to the music. ...

Maybe this is closer to what you meant:
<http://www.iit.edu/~smart/acadyear/miscwaves.htm>
wings in the air. Porter mentioned that, in our rural past, children
could get virtually endless and totally free enjoyment by putting a
June bug on a string! For a detailed description see the June Bugs
website: http://www.cmstory.org/exhibit/plum/june.htm.
So did you do that sort of thing when you were a kid??

Anyway, it's quite unlikely I'd behave like a June beetle if
somebody tried to tie a string to my leg, and I definitely have't
been behaving in that way in this thread.

On the other hand I do feel like that man with the donkey on his back.
(I wish I could find a Web page that contained the full story.
Google doesn't have any such indexed, at least not that I could find
with the obvious keywords. Maybe somebody else can find it for me,
if there's a copy online at all.?)

As for children torturing June beetles like that: Where I lived
AFAIK we never had anything like that. The only "bugs" I remember
specially were
- "play bugs" (what the kids called them, how I first learned of
them, but our parents insisted the correct name was "sow bugs",
but now on the InterNet I see the correct name is "pill bugs")
- "ladybugs" (what the kids called them, but adults said they were
more properly called "ladybird beetles", which agrees with
InterNet)
- aphids (no disagreement about name)
- earthworms
- ants (red ants bite/sting, black ants don't)
All in Sylmar (northernmost part of Los Angeles, which became
famous in 1971 when a earthquake in the hills near there caused one
wing of a hospital to break off and turn sideways and partly upside
down, killing lots of patients and staff, but a few years later the
name of the earthquake was changed because hardly anybody knew
where Sylmar was located, so they had to change the name to some
*other* town nearby where the quake *wasn't* just so people would
at least get the general area right; That pisses me off!).
<http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sylmar+earthquake+1971&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart>
(still has the correct name)
<http://www.data.scec.org/chrono_index/sanfer.html>
(has newspeak name, but mentions correct name "also called")
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_San_Fernando_earthquake>
(has newspeak name, but explains that *neither* name is really correct,
should probably be called the Iron Canyon earthquake, oh well)
(Oh well, at least there's no disagreement about the name or
epicenter of the "Loma Prieta" earthquake of 1989.)

Communication was made difficult by disruption of telephone, water,
and electrical service.
Hmm, that WikiPedia article claims that disruption of **water**
service contributed to communication difficulty?? Howso???

<http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1307810>
The Sylmar/San Fernando Earthquake caused the earth to move 2 feet.

The whole earth moved two feet? I don't believe that for a moment!
Look if your document in *new* Use DocType:

IMO That doesn't parse. Is it possible that contains a typo? Did
you really mean to say "is" instead of "in"? Or are you using some
slang idiom I just don't understand?
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

What should the corresponding meta be? Is it OK if I keep it
as-is:
said:
And do *not* use XHTML's single tag element syntax

Are you referring to <emptytag/> or <emptytag /> or both or something else?
Should I instead said:
<br /> <hr /> <img /> <link />

That's in a separate paragraph as you posted it. Is it supposed to
be linked to the previous paragraph?

By the way, there's a feature in some programming language, maybe
perl, whereby you start a string with a keyword label, then have
multi lines of quoted stuff not containing that label, then finally
that label on a line by itself to terminate the long string. That
seems to be a reasonable hack to allow quoting strings that have
lots of special characters in them without having to individually
quote each individual special character, as well as a way to quote
long sections in a way that is clearly marked for humans to see at
a glance. The NET crock in SGML seems to be a gross mis-design of
that otherwise useful idea.
Do not use XHTML unless you have a compelling reason to do so.

Shall I over-interpret that to also mean I shouldn't even *try* to
write code that is transitional between HTML and XHTML? Just give
up the whole idea of doing that which the class instructor insisted
we do for the class, backtrack a ways from that goal?
the most popular browser does not handle XHTML when served
properly is another reason not to use it.

If you're talking about MicroSuck Internet Exploiter, I don't much care.
What about Mozilla what'sitsname?
What about lynx?
 
A

Andy Dingley

Shall I over-interpret that to also mean I shouldn't even *try* to
write code that is transitional between HTML and XHTML?

There is no code that is "transitional between HTML and XHTML"

In web-design, "transitional" means something else entirely. Don't
confuse it.

A notion of being, let's say, "midway" between HTML and XHTML is a
possibility to discuss, but impossible to implement. There is no way
to tell a browser that it's "midway" code and to work with it on that
basis. Browsers decide that it's one or the other and then work on
that basis entirely. A browser simply doesn't care about "midway",
it's just looking at it from one aspect.

There is a concept of coding a document to be "midway" between HTML
and XHTML. The idea isn't really that it's midway, more that it's both
simultaneously. No matter which format the browser decides to treat is
as, it will still work. This is what Appendix C XHTML is about. It's
an XML document that also works as a HTML document.


Of course, this is all unnecessary and should be ignored totally in
favour of pure and simple HTML 4.01 Strict.



the whole idea of doing that which the class instructor insisted

The instructor insisted on nothing of the sort.
You mis-understood the instructor.

I know, I wasn't there. But every likelihood supports this
interpretation as being either most likely, or most useful for the
purpose of future progress.
 
R

robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

From: "Jonathan N. Little said:
I think you have it ass-backwards. If your document is for the *public*
(i.e., published to the Internet) then what *you* use for a browser is
not important. What *is* important is what your visitors will be using!

What *I* use for a browser is entirely crucial to the development
process. When I write come HTML, I have *no* way to see how it
might look in some *other* browser I don't have access to. All I
can see is how it looks in lynx, and what the validator says about
it. If it seems correct as I design it, and if lynx agrees by
presenting it the way I expected it to look, and if the validator
says it's "correct", that's the very best I can do from here. I can
only *hope* that it looks equally as-intended with other browsers.

Now if I had access to somebody with another browser, who would
tell me on a regular basis how it looked there, but I don't.
You code for them.

How would you propose I do that, give that I get absolutely no
timely feedback as to how it might look for them?
So if this is for the Internet then your visitors, (even those
from 3rd-world countries) will using a CSS supporting, GUI based
browser! Even if you only access the web in Lynx your can design
and test your page local with <insert GUI browser of your choice>
then upload it when your done.

I don't have access to any machine which has a GUI browser and also
has a working modem that would allow me to upload anything. My laptop
has a very very old (1999) version of NetScape, but no working
modem. My Macintosh has a working modem, but no working GUI
browser. (When I try to run IE on it, it freezes the whole machine,
forcing a COLD RESTART. I don't know anyone willing to help me for
free to get it working for GUI browser, and I don't have any money
to pay anyone to help me.)
Install Apache and make your development real easy.

Does Apache run on a Macintosh under System 7.5.5??
I have only 16 megabytes free disk space. Will it run in 5
megabytes or less so I still have some free disk space for
temporary files?
Otherwise, screw-it and forego the HTML that you are battling
with and make it a plain text file and be done with it.

Plain text doesn't support clicking on link from table of contents
to take you to appropriate section. Apparently you haven't the
foggiest idea what I'm trying to accomplish with this Web site.
Please go to:
<http://www.rawbw.com/~rem/HelloPlus/CookBook/Matrix.html> find
some sub-section of interest, where I already have some content (an
active link, instead of a [Stub]), for example, any of:
Integers ... and Characters
Pointers ... and Integers
Strings ... Characters
you get the idea? Click on the link. See the relevant section that
coordinates those two datatypes. Tell me how the user can click on
links like that with a plain text file, huh??
(Now imagine how it'll be when all the [Stubs] are converted to
links to sections I haven't yet written?)

Now if you agree with me that it isn't possible to achieve my goal
with a plain text file, but you think I'm doing a cruddy job of
organizing and/or presenting the information, please feel free to
develop your own version and publish it in competition with mine.
As far as I know, I'm the very first to attempt a matrix
coordinating two data types in multiple languages in parallel, but
you can be the second to try if you feel that you can do a better
job than I can. Be sure to tell me the URL of your attempt so that
I can nitpick it as much as you nitpick my attempt.
 
D

dorayme

"Andy Dingley said:
No, you should learn the difference between closing a tag and closing
an element.

You're using Berkeley, so I have to ask: Have you done a _lot_ of
drugs in the past?

Your posting style is just one anti-relativity rant short of a
k00kfile. Your postings are even longer than mine and you over-write
terribly. Your snip at Jukka's encoding was funny, then you went off
onto a long monologue about something I care not. You clearly have
_no_ ability to concentrate long enough to learn the most simple, yet
important, details (attribute quoting?) yet your vast rants are a
brain dump of some huge babbling unceasing inner turmoil.

I know people who have this style, and they use hooterfuls of coke.
What's _your_ excuse?

Yeah well, I always enjoy your posts AD (they are not usually all
that long...) and this reminds me, there are some people that
post here that are clearly not on anything but maybe should be.
You may not have noticed: there are those that fail to snip and
edit as a consequence of a boring-old-fart ingrained need to be
terribly formal and pedantic.
 
D

Dan

What should the corresponding meta be? Is it OK if I keep it
as-is:
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=us-ascii">

You're better off getting rid of the meta altogether, as it's merely a
cheap-plastic way of imitating a real HTTP header, which your server
ought to be sending in the first place as part of the information sent
via the HTTP protocol prior to the actual document contents.

But if you were to use meta elements, the only difference in them
between the HTML and XHTML versions would be that the XHTML one should
end with "/ >" while the HTML one ends with ">" alone.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t wrote:

<snip complete fertilizer>

What you are trying to accomplish is so very simple but you manage to
make anyone's attempts to help you a Sisyphean task! I have sympathies
for your instructor.

You don't happen to be Italian and spent time in Sweden by any chance?
 
D

dorayme

"Jonathan N. Little said:
robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t wrote:

<snip complete fertilizer>

What you are trying to accomplish is so very simple but you manage to
make anyone's attempts to help you a Sisyphean task! I have sympathies
for your instructor.

You don't happen to be Italian and spent time in Sweden by any chance?

I had a similar thought but with the twist that YOU KNOW WHO had
employed a ghost writer...
 
J

John Hosking

[attributions screwed up again, good luck]
What *I* use for a browser is entirely crucial to the development
process. When I write come HTML, I have *no* way to see how it
might look in some *other* browser I don't have access to. All I
can see is how it looks in lynx, and what the validator says about
it. If it seems correct as I design it, and if lynx agrees by
presenting it the way I expected it to look, and if the validator
says it's "correct", that's the very best I can do from here. I can
only *hope* that it looks equally as-intended with other browsers.

Now if I had access to somebody with another browser, who would
tell me on a regular basis how it looked there, but I don't.

Robert, you sound like a home construction contractor who wants to build
homes for a living, but doesn't own a power saw, just a thin little
hacksaw which cuts just fine if you don't go too fast because if you do
then the blade overheats and so nobody should complain because a saw is
a saw and you've got yours.

The house will take longer to build but you don't seem to mind, and if
the walls are a little crooked here and there it's really the saw's
fault, because after all it's only a little hacksaw.

When you say, "I have no way to see how it might look in some other
browser," you're following in the footsteps of so many folks who
designed only for IE (or earlier, only for Netscape) because that's all
they had. Such pages are a plague on the Web still today. And folks who
code in that way (even for IE6, currently the most common browser out
there) in 2007 don't get much sympathy. Coding for Lynx only won't get
you many friends, or technical support.
I don't have access to any machine which has a GUI browser and also
has a working modem that would allow me to upload anything. My laptop
has a very very old (1999) version of NetScape, but no working
modem. My Macintosh has a working modem, but no working GUI
browser.

My recommendation is that you write the content and forget the
publishing part. When your work is done, somebody else can mark it up or
help you mark it up, and then publish it, or help you publish it *once*.

By that time, there may be a different constellation of Web standards,
available browsers, and equipment available to you.

There is no good reason for anybody (including yourself) to expect that
you can publish to the WWW (a largely graphical space based on data
access enabled by the electronic transmission of said data) without a
graphical browser and electronic transmission capability.

People can (and do) argue about specific lists all the time, but if you
can't or won't test in *at least* IE6 and a version of Firefox, you
shouldn't bother publishing. In any case, you have no place to whine
about things like the spacing after a <pre> element.

I hesitate to mention the tool at http://www.browsershots.org/ because
(1) while it can be very helpful it is not perfect and (2) it is still
in an alpha release. You might not get along with it.
 
E

Ed Mullen

Jonathan said:
robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t wrote:

<snip complete fertilizer>

What you are trying to accomplish is so very simple but you manage to
make anyone's attempts to help you a Sisyphean task! I have sympathies
for your instructor.

You don't happen to be Italian and spent time in Sweden by any chance?

<ROFLMAO> Hey, and my mother's maiden name was DiMarcAntonio. Which,
as I think about it, is apropos of nothing. But, then, much of this
thread is the same. Although, I must say that one of my favorite
memories of my childhood was Luigi's Pizza Parlor in suburban
Philadelphia. Long live Luigi!

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts, there can be
no more hurt, only more love. - Mother Teresa
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Ed said:
<ROFLMAO> Hey, and my mother's maiden name was DiMarcAntonio.

And my is Graffeo, but that's Sicilian not Italian, but I guess I still
qualify
 
C

Chaddy2222

John said:
[attributions screwed up again, good luck]
What *I* use for a browser is entirely crucial to the development
process. When I write come HTML, I have *no* way to see how it
might look in some *other* browser I don't have access to. All I
can see is how it looks in lynx, and what the validator says about
it. If it seems correct as I design it, and if lynx agrees by
presenting it the way I expected it to look, and if the validator
says it's "correct", that's the very best I can do from here. I can
only *hope* that it looks equally as-intended with other browsers.

Now if I had access to somebody with another browser, who would
tell me on a regular basis how it looked there, but I don't.

Robert, you sound like a home construction contractor who wants to build
homes for a living, but doesn't own a power saw, just a thin little
hacksaw which cuts just fine if you don't go too fast because if you do
then the blade overheats and so nobody should complain because a saw is
a saw and you've got yours.

The house will take longer to build but you don't seem to mind, and if
the walls are a little crooked here and there it's really the saw's
fault, because after all it's only a little hacksaw.

When you say, "I have no way to see how it might look in some other
browser," you're following in the footsteps of so many folks who
designed only for IE (or earlier, only for Netscape) because that's all
they had. Such pages are a plague on the Web still today. And folks who
code in that way (even for IE6, currently the most common browser out
there) in 2007 don't get much sympathy. Coding for Lynx only won't get
you many friends, or technical support.
I don't have access to any machine which has a GUI browser and also
has a working modem that would allow me to upload anything. My laptop
has a very very old (1999) version of NetScape, but no working
modem. My Macintosh has a working modem, but no working GUI
browser.

My recommendation is that you write the content and forget the
publishing part. When your work is done, somebody else can mark it up or
help you mark it up, and then publish it, or help you publish it *once*.

By that time, there may be a different constellation of Web standards,
available browsers, and equipment available to you.

There is no good reason for anybody (including yourself) to expect that
you can publish to the WWW (a largely graphical space based on data
access enabled by the electronic transmission of said data) without a
graphical browser and electronic transmission capability.
I could not agree more! I mean I can hardly see what's on my monitor,
and for a lot of web based stuff I read it with my ScreenReader (Text
too speach device), but I still use the graphical browser for testing
my websites.
People can (and do) argue about specific lists all the time, but if you
can't or won't test in *at least* IE6 and a version of Firefox, you
shouldn't bother publishing. In any case, you have no place to whine
about things like the spacing after a <pre> element.
Yeah, I could not agree more.
I hesitate to mention the tool at http://www.browsershots.org/ because
(1) while it can be very helpful it is not perfect and (2) it is still
in an alpha release. You might not get along with it.
I reckon Browser Cam is better, http://www.browsercam.com they have a
free trial which I do use at times.
 
I

I V

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 02:08:21 +0100, John Hosking wrote:
[Excellent analogy snipped]
When you say, "I have no way to see how it might look in some other
browser," you're following in the footsteps of so many folks who
designed only for IE (or earlier, only for Netscape) because that's all
they had. Such pages are a plague on the Web still today. And folks who
code in that way (even for IE6, currently the most common browser out
there) in 2007 don't get much sympathy. Coding for Lynx only won't get
you many friends, or technical support.

Well, coding for Lynx only is not the worst thing you could do; after all,
it involves just writing good semantic HTML, which there's plenty of
technical support for right in this newsgroup. The OP's problem seems to
be that he wants to write for Lynx _and_ control the formatting of his
pages. Unlike writing pages for IE6 only, that's not really harmful, it's
just impossible.
 
R

robert maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

From: John Hosking said:
If you register at IMDb (I assume you didn't really mean "indb") ...

Oops, yeah that was a typo.
For *new* pages, or pages you are actively maintaining, go with HTML
4.01 strict, unless you have a bona fide reason to use XHTML.

I tried that for the first time today. It was a horrible failure.
Here's the loose Web page that I want to convert:
<http://www.rawbw.com/~rem/HelloPlus/loose.html#pre>
That validates 100% correct with loose DTD.
I made a copy of that, and just changed the top of the file to be
strict, and got 11 (eleven) validation errors. Out of desperation,
I deleted *all* content between the <body> and the </body>, but I'm
still getting 1 (one) validation error:
<http://www.rawbw.com/~rem/HelloPlus/strict.html>
What change is needed to satify the validator when using the strict DTD?

After you tell me how to make the validator happy with no content
whatsoever in the file, next I'll try copying across just one item
at a time from the loose file to the strict file, trying to get it
to validate correctly before copying across the next item. But I'm
not going to even try that until I can get an empty-content file to
validate.

If and when I start copying content across, is there any tutorial
that will suggest ways of making the conversion? Or will you be
available to tell me what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it each
time I copy across just one new item and get another bunch of
validation errors?
 

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