Xah's Edu Corner: Criticism vs Constructive Criticism

J

Jürgen Exner

+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | jgs (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
==============================================================


And worse: don't ever full quote them.

jue
 
J

John Bokma

gene tani said:
he's solidified position as top troll of 2003-2006

Maybe because people rather post a reply instead of sending an abuse
report.

Got this from Dreamhost (hosting provider):

"I have warned this user that excessive offtopic cross-posting is not
allowed, and explained that if he doesn't quit he risks losing his
account. If you (or anyone else) notice this in the future, please do not
hesitate to submit another report."

Since Xah was also yesterday complaining to me about harassment I guess
something happened.

In the past some others and I managed to have 10 out of 20 sites shut down
from a "solidified top troll". (Each rant had 20+ links to his sites)

You know, just some sunlight is was really solidifies a troll :-D.
 
X

Xah Lee

What Languages to Hate

Xah Lee, 20020718

Dear lisp comrades and other concerned parties,

First, all languages have equal rights. Do not belittle other languages
just because YOUR favorite language is a bit better in this aspect or
that. Different people have different ideas and manners of perception.
Ideas compete and thrive in all unexpected fashions. Societies improve,
inventions progress. Lisp may be a first in this or that, or faster or
flexibler, or higher level than other languages old and new, but then
there are other languages the like of Mathematica & Haskell & Dylan et
al which ridicule lisps in the same way lisp ridicule other languages.

Just because YOU are used to more functional programing or love lots of
parenthesis doesn't mean they are the only and best concepts. The
so-called Object Oriented programing of Java fame, or the visual
programing of Visual Basic fame, or the logic programing of Prolog
fame, or the format-stable syntax of Python fame, or the “one line of
Mathematica equals ten to one thousand lines of lisp†of _A New Kind
Of Science_ fame... all are parts of healthy competing concepts,
paradigms, or directions of growth.

The way some of you deride other languages is like sneering
heterogeneousness. If unchecked, soon you'll only have your sister to
marry to. Cute, but you do not want incest to become the only sex. Next
time your superiority complex makes you sneer at non-lisp or other
non-popular languages, remember this. It is diversity of ideas, that
drives the welfare of progress.

Now, there is one judgmental criterion, that if a language or computer
technology fits it, then we not only should castigate at their
missionaries, but persecute and harass the language to the harshest
death. That is: utter sloppiness, irresponsibility, and lies. These
things are often borne out of some student's homework or moron's
dirty-work, harbored by “free†and wanton lies and personalfame,
amassed thru ignorance.

Of my short but diligent industrial unix computing experience since
1998, i have identified the following targets:

* C (and consequences like csh, C++)
* vi
* Perl
* MySQL
* unix, unixism, and things grown out of unix. (languages,
protocols, philosophies, expectations, movements)

In our software industry, i like to define criminals as those who cause
inordinate harm to society, not necessarily directly. Of the above
things, some of their authors are not such criminals or are forgivable.
While others, are hypocritical fantastic liers selfish to the core.
When dealing with these self-promoting jolly lying humble humorous
priests and their insidious superficially-harmless speeches, there
should be no benefit of doubt. Tell them directly to stop their vicious
lies. Do a face-off.

As to their brain-washed followers for example the not-yet-hard-core
unix, C, or Perl coders rampant in industry, try to snap them out of
it. This you do by loudly snapping fingers in front of their face,
making it sound like a ear piercing bang. Explain to them the utter
stupidity of the things they are using, and the harm to their brain.
IMPORTANT: _teach_, not _debate_ or _discuss_ or falling back into your
philosophical deliberating indecisiveness. I've seen enough criticisms
among learned programers or academics on these, so i know you know what
i'm talking about. When you see a unixer brainwashed beyond saving,
kick him out of the door. He has became a zombie who cannot be helped.

There are other languages or technology, by itself technically are
perhaps mediocre but at least is not a egregious irresponsible hack,
therefore does not deserve scorn, but sometimes it comes with
overwhelming popular outrageous lies (euphemized as hype). Java is a
example. For this reason, it is equally deserving the harshest
treatment. Any loud proponents of such should be immediately slapped in
the mouth and kicked in the ass in no ambiguous ways.

Summary: all languages have equal rights. However, those utterly SLOPPY
and IRRESPONSIBLE HACKS with promoter's LIES should be severely
punished. It is these, that cause computing industry inordinate harm.
Meanwhile, it is wrong to haughtily criticize other languages just
because they are not your cup of tea. Now, please remember this and go
do society good.
----
This post is archived at:
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/language_to_hate.html

Xah
(e-mail address removed)
∑ http://xahlee.org/
 
A

Alex Buell

What Languages to Hate

Folks, this guy has moved to pacbell.net (and probably relocated his
website as well).

Send your complaints to:
(e-mail address removed)
(e-mail address removed)
 
R

Roedy Green

What Languages to Hate

Come, if you are as experienced as you claim you know that
comp.lang.java.advocacy is the home of language wars and commentary on
them, not comp.lang.java.programmer.

It is one thing for a topic to drift but quite another to deliberately
post your initial message in the wrong place.
 
J

John Bokma

Alex Buell said:
Send your complaints to:
abuse at sbcglobal dott net
abuse at dreamhost dott com

Yup, done. If he's still with dreamhost he probably is in trouble now. If
not, next.
 
T

Tagore Smith

John said:
Instead of cross posting more garbage, do as follows:

Email a complaint to the email addresses you can look up yourself and
include the entire message of Xah:

http://www.spamcop.net/sc?track=72.231.179.135 posting host
http://www.spamcop.net/sc?track=xahlee.org spamvertized site

Xah Lee has been around for a long time. I don't claim to understand
him, but I don't think he is a troll- I think he is sincere in his
postings, even if they are gibberish to everyone else. The only thing
he is doing that should be considered abuse is crossposting to several
groups (and he should certainly stop doing that). But he is only
crossposting to about eight or so groups- hardly a Dave Rhodes
incident.

The great thing about Usenet is that it gives everyone a soapbox, even
the slightly warped. Xah Lee should stop crossposting, but the fact
that he is incoherent should not bar him from posting messages. He is
actually a pretty interesting fellow when it comes to certain aspects
of mathematics- I don't know if he still maintains his site about knot
theory, but it was quite interesting, last time I looked.

It's much easier to use a killfile than to complain to an ISP, and I
think that that should be the preferred response to messages you don't
like. Complaints to ISPs should be reserved for egregious abuse of the
Usenet infrastructure.
 
C

Chris Uppal

Tagore said:
It's much easier to use a killfile than to complain to an ISP, and I
think that that should be the preferred response to messages you don't
like.

I'm inclined to agree. The problem is not Xah Lee (whom I have killfiled), but
the people who insist on making my killfile useless by posting loads of
follow-ups saying things amounting to "stop this insane gibberish". Every
bloody time.

Wake up, people ! You are not the victims, you are the problem. Shut up,
/please/.

(And yes, I do realise that I'm adding to the problem here, and indeed that I'm
not following my own advice, nor heeding my own request.).

-- chris
 
T

Tagore Smith

Chris said:
I'm inclined to agree. The problem is not Xah Lee (whom I have killfiled), but
the people who insist on making my killfile useless by posting loads of
follow-ups saying things amounting to "stop this insane gibberish".

.... well, this is the problem with killfiles. Some clients do allow you
to kill all threads and subthreads that are started by anyone in your
killfile.
 
T

Takehiko Abe

Wake up, people ! You are not the victims, you are the problem.
Shut up,
So true!

Wake up, people ! You are not the victims, you are the problem. Shut up,
/please/.

Me too!

Wake up, people ! You are not the victims, you are the problem. Shut up,
/please/.
 
J

John Bokma

Tagore Smith said:
It's much easier to use a killfile than to complain to an ISP, and I
think that that should be the preferred response to messages you don't
like.

No, since even if you kill file Xah Lee, he keeps wasting resources of
people who have dedicated equipment to support Usenet.
Complaints to ISPs should be reserved for egregious abuse of the
Usenet infrastructure.

I consider this abuse, and since the reports are taken serious atm, it
looks like the ISP / USP / hosting provider *agree* with my POV.

It's their call anyway.

Maybe you like to look away when someone throws garbage on the street,
thinking: who cares, it will be cleaned away by the end of the week. I
don't like the sight of it, and also know that some garbage ends up in the
sewer system, causing all kinds of problems.
 
J

John Bokma

Chris Uppal said:
I'm inclined to agree. The problem is not Xah Lee (whom I have
killfiled), but the people who insist on making my killfile useless by
posting loads of follow-ups saying things amounting to "stop this
insane gibberish". Every bloody time.

Yup, and since that never stops, I make sure the source is going to dry
up.
 
J

John Bokma

Tagore Smith said:
... well, this is the problem with killfiles. Some clients do allow
you to kill all threads and subthreads that are started by anyone in
your killfile.

Yup, in short: stop Xah, and many people don't have to keep their kill
files up to date, or switch to a different usenet client.

Isn't it crazy that one person is allowed to create such a huge mess
everytime he posts?
 
B

Bill Atkins

John Bokma said:
Isn't it crazy that one person is allowed to create such a huge mess
everytime he posts?

Isn't it crazy that one person willfully creates such a mess every
time Xah posts? Shush!
 
J

John Bokma

Bill Atkins said:
Isn't it crazy that one person willfully creates such a mess every
time Xah posts? Shush!

Since you're posting from an edu tld, why are you wasting time and money
instead of getting educated? It might stop you from acting like an idiot
like you did just now.
 
K

Ken Tilton

John said:
Since you're posting from an edu tld, why are you wasting time and money
instead of getting educated? It might stop you from acting like an idiot
like you did just now.

We have seen the enemy, and he is us. -- Pogo

I love this entire thread. Thank you, Xah!

ken

--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/

"Have you ever been in a relationship?"
Attorney for Mary Winkler, confessed killer of her
minister husband, when asked if the couple had
marital problems.
 

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