XAML

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by Jeff, Dec 31, 2005.

  1. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during the
    next 5 years?)

    Looking for informed opinions.

    Thanks!
     
    Jeff, Dec 31, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Jeff

    Guest

    , Dec 31, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Jeff

    Lloyd Dupont Guest

    why are you asking?
    it will be there (final release) in about 7 month.
    it will work and offer you a worl of opportunity (in term of creativity and
    productivity).
    On the other hand , it will be new, people won't know it and use it.
    So one hand you do more with less, on the other hand you'll have to sell
    yoursefl harder to your future boss.
    If you're an independant, your customer won't care much about the technology
    provided that they work on their computers (Vista is targeting XP, CE,
    Vista, PocketPC & MacOSX).

    "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    > the next 5 years?)
    >
    > Looking for informed opinions.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
     
    Lloyd Dupont, Dec 31, 2005
    #3
  4. Jeff

    clintonG Guest

    If you're asking for insight and possibilities I perceive XAML will allow us
    to build an interactive desktop that is indistinguishable from a "page"
    allowing unique applications such as a desktop that functions as an
    interactive architectural floorplan or an interactive representation of a
    machine for example but as it has been said, all of this will be a few years
    away and we will also have to contend with subversive and corrupt
    crippleware vendors such as Autodesk who will do everything they can to
    prevent this sort of progress.

    <%= Clinton Gallagher
    METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/




    "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    > the next 5 years?)
    >
    > Looking for informed opinions.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
     
    clintonG, Dec 31, 2005
    #4
  5. Jeff

    Lloyd Dupont Guest

    I don't see how whatever software politic Autodesk has could impat on the
    adoption (or not) of XAML by the developer community?!?

    "clintonG" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If you're asking for insight and possibilities I perceive XAML will allow
    > us to build an interactive desktop that is indistinguishable from a "page"
    > allowing unique applications such as a desktop that functions as an
    > interactive architectural floorplan or an interactive representation of a
    > machine for example but as it has been said, all of this will be a few
    > years away and we will also have to contend with subversive and corrupt
    > crippleware vendors such as Autodesk who will do everything they can to
    > prevent this sort of progress.
    >
    > <%= Clinton Gallagher
    > METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    > NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    > URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    > URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    >> the next 5 years?)
    >>
    >> Looking for informed opinions.
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Lloyd Dupont, Dec 31, 2005
    #5
  6. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    Well, you see, Autodesk is the organization that is *really* controlling
    *everything* including the price of gas, middle East policy, organized
    crime, and of course XAML. If you don't believe me, just consider that Big
    Foot and the Loch Ness monster are both on the payroll of Autodesk.




    "Lloyd Dupont" <net.galador@ld> wrote in message
    news:%23I0sp%...
    >I don't see how whatever software politic Autodesk has could impat on the
    >adoption (or not) of XAML by the developer community?!?
    >
    > "clintonG" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> If you're asking for insight and possibilities I perceive XAML will allow
    >> us to build an interactive desktop that is indistinguishable from a
    >> "page" allowing unique applications such as a desktop that functions as
    >> an interactive architectural floorplan or an interactive representation
    >> of a machine for example but as it has been said, all of this will be a
    >> few years away and we will also have to contend with subversive and
    >> corrupt crippleware vendors such as Autodesk who will do everything they
    >> can to prevent this sort of progress.
    >>
    >> <%= Clinton Gallagher
    >> METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    >> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    >> URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    >> URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>> How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    >>> the next 5 years?)
    >>>
    >>> Looking for informed opinions.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks!
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Jeff, Jan 1, 2006
    #6
  7. Jeff

    clintonG Guest

    We will need standardized schemas that can be used for vector geometry. The
    Autopimps control the drafting software and have refused to web enable the
    drawing file formats which keeps the customer's drawing assets crippled. The
    Autopimps bought a seat on a W3C committee to scuttle the adoption of SVG.
    Microsoft did the same by the way but at least Microsoft provides
    alternatives whereas the Autopimps provide none.

    The Autopimps change their file format every two years and have at least a
    half-dozen proprietry file viewers which provide basic viewing but cripple
    any web enablement and demand fees that must be passed on to a developer's
    customer.

    The Autopimps software development license states nobody may develop
    software that competes with an Autopimp product. Any developer that chooses
    to proceed anyway is always at risk of the Autopimps using their slimy
    lawyers to steal the software created by a developer with a great idea.

    The Autopimps now support the use of the .NET Framework in several of their
    products but have not supported web enabling the interface of the products
    (they have a FU hyperlink feature in the IDE that has been dysfunctional or
    crippled for the last five years) and they have obstructed any means of web
    enabling the drawing files themselves. They support "some" use of XML but
    only in certai products which have very small markets and only then support
    their own crippled schemas with no implementation I am aware of which would
    allow other options.

    A developer has to pay the Autopimps $1200 every year to have access to
    documentation and private developer resources that are not otherwise made
    available on the web when downloading their SDK. Its like MSDN in that NFR
    software is provided when paying the fee but like the corrupt cable
    companies that charge customers for programming they do not want the
    Autopimps bundle documentation and resources that are not otherwise
    available without having to pay for the NFR that is not needed when a
    developer is already a customer and uses a specific product such as
    AutoCAD/Architectural Desktop or Revit.

    The National Institute of Science and Technology reports the US construction
    industry is losing $15 billion annually as a result of crippled software or
    lack of software processes. If its true that the Autopimps control most
    design and drafting for the US construction industry as it is true that
    Microsoft controls most desktop operating systems it must then be true that
    the Autopimps are the fundamental reason why the US construction industry is
    operating at a $15 billion annual loss.

    That's the way I see it. Does that help?

    <%= Clinton Gallagher
    METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/


    "Lloyd Dupont" <net.galador@ld> wrote in message
    news:%23I0sp%...
    >I don't see how whatever software politic Autodesk has could impat on the
    >adoption (or not) of XAML by the developer community?!?
    >
    > "clintonG" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> If you're asking for insight and possibilities I perceive XAML will allow
    >> us to build an interactive desktop that is indistinguishable from a
    >> "page" allowing unique applications such as a desktop that functions as
    >> an interactive architectural floorplan or an interactive representation
    >> of a machine for example but as it has been said, all of this will be a
    >> few years away and we will also have to contend with subversive and
    >> corrupt crippleware vendors such as Autodesk who will do everything they
    >> can to prevent this sort of progress.
    >>
    >> <%= Clinton Gallagher
    >> METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    >> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    >> URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    >> URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>> How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    >>> the next 5 years?)
    >>>
    >>> Looking for informed opinions.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks!
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    clintonG, Jan 1, 2006
    #7
  8. Jeff

    Scott Allen Guest

    If you look at XAML generically, as a declarative language that
    constructs a hierarchy of CLR objects, then I think it's going to be
    important. This sort of pattern will be popping up everywhere.

    --
    Scott
    http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/

    On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:19:08 -0800, "Jeff" <> wrote:

    >How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during the
    >next 5 years?)
    >
    >Looking for informed opinions.
    >
    >Thanks!
    >
     
    Scott Allen, Jan 1, 2006
    #8
  9. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    Thanks Scott... could you elaborate a bit?... perhaps point me/us to
    additional reading?

    -Jeff




    "Scott Allen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If you look at XAML generically, as a declarative language that
    > constructs a hierarchy of CLR objects, then I think it's going to be
    > important. This sort of pattern will be popping up everywhere.
    >
    > --
    > Scott
    > http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/
    >
    > On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:19:08 -0800, "Jeff" <> wrote:
    >
    >>How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    >>the
    >>next 5 years?)
    >>
    >>Looking for informed opinions.
    >>
    >>Thanks!
    >>

    >
     
    Jeff, Jan 1, 2006
    #9
  10. Hi Jeff,

    Personally, I believe that XAML will become extremely important over the
    next 5 years. It represents a standardization of user interface definition
    that is based on XML, and therefore cross-platform-compatible. It uses
    vector-based 3D graphics. A XAML user interface could be used in aboth
    desktop apps to browser-based apps, and on multiple Operating Systems,
    especially when combined with .Net, and with a Framework available for the
    target OS.

    --
    HTH,

    Kevin Spencer
    Microsoft MVP
    ..Net Developer
    You can lead a fish to a bicycle,
    but it takes a very long time,
    and the bicycle has to *want* to change.

    "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    > the next 5 years?)
    >
    > Looking for informed opinions.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
     
    Kevin Spencer, Jan 1, 2006
    #10
  11. Jeff

    Scott Allen Guest

    On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 09:07:33 -0800, "Jeff" <> wrote:

    >Thanks Scott... could you elaborate a bit?... perhaps point me/us to
    >additional reading?
    >


    Well, let's say I write this hunk of XAML:

    <Page x:Class="Default_page" Title="Home">
    <TextBlock FontSize ="18" TextWrapping="Wrap">
    CheckOut
    <Hyperlink NavigateUri="page2.xaml">Page 2!</Hyperlink>,
    </TextBlock>
    </Page>

    The first question is - am I describing the UI for a web form, or a UI
    for Windows Presentation Framework (WPF)? I don't know just by looking
    - it could be either! If I add an XML namespace specific to WPF
    (xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/winfx/avalon/2005"), then I'd
    know.

    Everyone associates XAML with WPF at first, but XAML doesn't
    necessarily have to be tied to WPF. Let's take a step back even
    further.

    What am I doing with XAML? I am giving declarative instructions to:

    Create a Page object and set the Title property.
    Create a TextBlock object with FontSize and TextWrapping properties
    set, then add the TextBlock to the Page's content.
    Create some literal text, and a Hyperlink object to add the to
    TextBlock content.
    And so on...

    What I'm really doing is providing instructions to build a tree of
    managed objects. The tree of objects could represent a window, a
    webform, even ...

    <SequentialWorkflow x:Class="HelloWorld" >
    <SequentialWorkflow.Parameters>
    <wcm:parameter Name="FirstName" Type="System.String">
    <wcm:parameter Name="LastName" Type="System.String">
    </SequentialWorkflow.Parameters>
    <Code ExecuteCode="code1_CodeHandler" ID="code1" />
    </SequentialWorkflow>


    ... a Workflow [1].

    Because XAML is general purpose, and because it's toolable (meaning it
    will work with designers, compilers, and the tools we write
    ourselves), XAML and XAML-like technologies are bound to become more
    prevalent in the next 5 years in a number of areas (not just UI), as a
    way to manage complexity (because the above XAML snippets cut down on
    the amount of code we'd have to write to do the same thing, and
    because it is toolable we might not have to make a lot of effort
    maintaining the XAML, either).

    Of course, because XAML is so toolable, I'm not sure how *visible*
    XAML will actually be. It will certainly be behind the scenes of many
    tools [2], but not something we work with by hand very much.

    [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/building/workflow/

    [2]
    http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/interactive_designer/default.aspx


    I hope this afternoon ramble makes some sense...

    --
    Scott
    http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/
     
    Scott Allen, Jan 1, 2006
    #11
  12. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    Very very helpful. Thanks!



    "Scott Allen" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 09:07:33 -0800, "Jeff" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Thanks Scott... could you elaborate a bit?... perhaps point me/us to
    >>additional reading?
    >>

    >
    > Well, let's say I write this hunk of XAML:
    >
    > <Page x:Class="Default_page" Title="Home">
    > <TextBlock FontSize ="18" TextWrapping="Wrap">
    > CheckOut
    > <Hyperlink NavigateUri="page2.xaml">Page 2!</Hyperlink>,
    > </TextBlock>
    > </Page>
    >
    > The first question is - am I describing the UI for a web form, or a UI
    > for Windows Presentation Framework (WPF)? I don't know just by looking
    > - it could be either! If I add an XML namespace specific to WPF
    > (xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/winfx/avalon/2005"), then I'd
    > know.
    >
    > Everyone associates XAML with WPF at first, but XAML doesn't
    > necessarily have to be tied to WPF. Let's take a step back even
    > further.
    >
    > What am I doing with XAML? I am giving declarative instructions to:
    >
    > Create a Page object and set the Title property.
    > Create a TextBlock object with FontSize and TextWrapping properties
    > set, then add the TextBlock to the Page's content.
    > Create some literal text, and a Hyperlink object to add the to
    > TextBlock content.
    > And so on...
    >
    > What I'm really doing is providing instructions to build a tree of
    > managed objects. The tree of objects could represent a window, a
    > webform, even ...
    >
    > <SequentialWorkflow x:Class="HelloWorld" >
    > <SequentialWorkflow.Parameters>
    > <wcm:parameter Name="FirstName" Type="System.String">
    > <wcm:parameter Name="LastName" Type="System.String">
    > </SequentialWorkflow.Parameters>
    > <Code ExecuteCode="code1_CodeHandler" ID="code1" />
    > </SequentialWorkflow>
    >
    >
    > .. a Workflow [1].
    >
    > Because XAML is general purpose, and because it's toolable (meaning it
    > will work with designers, compilers, and the tools we write
    > ourselves), XAML and XAML-like technologies are bound to become more
    > prevalent in the next 5 years in a number of areas (not just UI), as a
    > way to manage complexity (because the above XAML snippets cut down on
    > the amount of code we'd have to write to do the same thing, and
    > because it is toolable we might not have to make a lot of effort
    > maintaining the XAML, either).
    >
    > Of course, because XAML is so toolable, I'm not sure how *visible*
    > XAML will actually be. It will certainly be behind the scenes of many
    > tools [2], but not something we work with by hand very much.
    >
    > [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/building/workflow/
    >
    > [2]
    > http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/interactive_designer/default.aspx
    >
    >
    > I hope this afternoon ramble makes some sense...
    >
    > --
    > Scott
    > http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/
     
    Jeff, Jan 1, 2006
    #12
  13. Jeff

    Lloyd Dupont Guest

    that's scary man!

    "Jeff" <> wrote in message news:%...
    > Well, you see, Autodesk is the organization that is *really* controlling
    > *everything* including the price of gas, middle East policy, organized
    > crime, and of course XAML. If you don't believe me, just consider that Big
    > Foot and the Loch Ness monster are both on the payroll of Autodesk.




    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Lloyd Dupont" <net.galador@ld> wrote in message
    > news:%23I0sp%...
    >>I don't see how whatever software politic Autodesk has could impat on the
    >>adoption (or not) of XAML by the developer community?!?
    >>
    >> "clintonG" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> If you're asking for insight and possibilities I perceive XAML will allow
    >>> us to build an interactive desktop that is indistinguishable from a
    >>> "page" allowing unique applications such as a desktop that functions as
    >>> an interactive architectural floorplan or an interactive representation
    >>> of a machine for example but as it has been said, all of this will be a
    >>> few years away and we will also have to contend with subversive and
    >>> corrupt crippleware vendors such as Autodesk who will do everything they
    >>> can to prevent this sort of progress.
    >>>
    >>> <%= Clinton Gallagher
    >>> METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    >>> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    >>> URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    >>> URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:%...
    >>>> How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become during
    >>>> the next 5 years?)
    >>>>
    >>>> Looking for informed opinions.
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Lloyd Dupont, Jan 2, 2006
    #13
  14. Jeff

    Lloyd Dupont Guest

    >
    > That's the way I see it. Does that help?


    I see.
    A bit of informed feedback is always interesting.

    "clintonG" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We will need standardized schemas that can be used for vector geometry.
    > The Autopimps control the drafting software and have refused to web enable
    > the drawing file formats which keeps the customer's drawing assets
    > crippled. The Autopimps bought a seat on a W3C committee to scuttle the
    > adoption of SVG. Microsoft did the same by the way but at least Microsoft
    > provides alternatives whereas the Autopimps provide none.
    >
    > The Autopimps change their file format every two years and have at least a
    > half-dozen proprietry file viewers which provide basic viewing but cripple
    > any web enablement and demand fees that must be passed on to a developer's
    > customer.
    >
    > The Autopimps software development license states nobody may develop
    > software that competes with an Autopimp product. Any developer that
    > chooses to proceed anyway is always at risk of the Autopimps using their
    > slimy lawyers to steal the software created by a developer with a great
    > idea.
    >
    > The Autopimps now support the use of the .NET Framework in several of
    > their products but have not supported web enabling the interface of the
    > products (they have a FU hyperlink feature in the IDE that has been
    > dysfunctional or crippled for the last five years) and they have
    > obstructed any means of web enabling the drawing files themselves. They
    > support "some" use of XML but only in certai products which have very
    > small markets and only then support their own crippled schemas with no
    > implementation I am aware of which would allow other options.
    >
    > A developer has to pay the Autopimps $1200 every year to have access to
    > documentation and private developer resources that are not otherwise made
    > available on the web when downloading their SDK. Its like MSDN in that NFR
    > software is provided when paying the fee but like the corrupt cable
    > companies that charge customers for programming they do not want the
    > Autopimps bundle documentation and resources that are not otherwise
    > available without having to pay for the NFR that is not needed when a
    > developer is already a customer and uses a specific product such as
    > AutoCAD/Architectural Desktop or Revit.
    >
    > The National Institute of Science and Technology reports the US
    > construction industry is losing $15 billion annually as a result of
    > crippled software or lack of software processes. If its true that the
    > Autopimps control most design and drafting for the US construction
    > industry as it is true that Microsoft controls most desktop operating
    > systems it must then be true that the Autopimps are the fundamental reason
    > why the US construction industry is operating at a $15 billion annual
    > loss.
    >
    > <%= Clinton Gallagher
    > METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    > NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    > URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    > URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >
    >
    > "Lloyd Dupont" <net.galador@ld> wrote in message
    > news:%23I0sp%...
    >>I don't see how whatever software politic Autodesk has could impat on the
    >>adoption (or not) of XAML by the developer community?!?
    >>
    >> "clintonG" <> wrote in
    >> message news:...
    >>> If you're asking for insight and possibilities I perceive XAML will
    >>> allow us to build an interactive desktop that is indistinguishable from
    >>> a "page" allowing unique applications such as a desktop that functions
    >>> as an interactive architectural floorplan or an interactive
    >>> representation of a machine for example but as it has been said, all of
    >>> this will be a few years away and we will also have to contend with
    >>> subversive and corrupt crippleware vendors such as Autodesk who will do
    >>> everything they can to prevent this sort of progress.
    >>>
    >>> <%= Clinton Gallagher
    >>> METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    >>> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    >>> URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    >>> URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Jeff" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:%...
    >>>> How important is XAML? (or how important is it expected to become
    >>>> during the next 5 years?)
    >>>>
    >>>> Looking for informed opinions.
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Lloyd Dupont, Jan 2, 2006
    #14
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