blind men and page declaration


T

Tim Streater

thedarkman said:
That decision is absolutely ludicrous. What next, a paraplegic suing
for discrimination for being refused a job as a night club bouncer?

As far as I can see, it is not necessary at all to declare a file type
from HTML 5; having said that, leaving aside CSS, what alterations
would you make to the code of the following file? It has 10 errors
and 4 warnings, which I find strange for such a short file.


<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE>OYSTERS: a poem by Alexander Baron</TITLE></HEAD>

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
<h1><i>Oysters</i></h1>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">
<b>

<p>Life was like an oyster without the pearl;
<br>I found it washed up on rocks by the tide.
<br>I prized it open, then stared like a churl
<br>Expectantly - what did I find inside?

<p>Sweet **** all!



<p>[The above was first published in <A
HREF="scat_poem.html"><i>Scatoligicus Eroticum</i></a>, February
1993].
<p>
<A HREF="poetry.html">Back To Poetry Index</A>

<p>
</HTML>

1) <body> and </body> around the body might help.

2) You really want to close your paragraphs with </p>.

3) You don't need the <p> at the end, get rid of it.

4) For HTML5, you should put <!DOCTYPE HTML> as the first line of your
file.

5) HTML reads nicer if you don't put the tags in caps (personal
preference). Like your <h1>.

6) <FONT> is *so* last millennium. And you don't need those blasted <i>,
either. Use a CSS style, in-line if you must, like:

<h1 style="color: red; font-style:italic;">
 
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T

thedarkman

That decision is absolutely ludicrous. What next, a paraplegic suing
for discrimination for being refused a job as a night club bouncer?

As far as I can see, it is not necessary at all to declare a file type
from HTML 5; having said that, leaving aside CSS, what alterations
would you make to the code of the following file? It has 10 errors
and 4 warnings, which I find strange for such a short file.


<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE>OYSTERS: a poem by Alexander Baron</TITLE></HEAD>

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
<h1><i>Oysters</i></h1>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">
<b>

<p>Life was like an oyster without the pearl;
<br>I found it washed up on rocks by the tide.
<br>I prized it open, then stared like a churl
<br>Expectantly - what did I find inside?

<p>Sweet **** all!



<p>[The above was first published in <A
HREF="scat_poem.html"><i>Scatoligicus Eroticum</i></a>, February
1993].
<p>
<A HREF="poetry.html">Back To Poetry Index</A>

<p>
</HTML>
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

thedarkman said:
As far as I can see, it is not necessary at all to declare a file type
from HTML 5; having said that, leaving aside CSS, what alterations
would you make to the code of the following file? It has 10 errors
and 4 warnings, which I find strange for such a short file.

Maybe RTFM might help? Why do you expect to make a valid pages if you
refuse to learn the rules and then follow them?
 
T

Tim Streater

Jukka K. Korpela said:
I strongly suggest that you and others stop feeding the troll.

If you cannot do that, please don't add to the trolling with pointless
"advice" like...


No they wouldn't. They have no effect on anything.


Why would anyone want to declare an HTML5 doctype on a page that does
not even try to conform to HTML5?

It's the only doctype I use. These days, it's the only one you need.
Why would your personal preference on case of letters in tags matter here?

(The questions above are rhetorical.)

Why did you waste all our time asking them then, Yucky? Try and be more
constructive next time.
 
J

Jukka K. Korpela

I strongly suggest that you and others stop feeding the troll.

If you cannot do that, please don't add to the trolling with pointless
"advice" like...
1) <body> and </body> around the body might help.

No they wouldn't. They have no effect on anything.
4) For HTML5, you should put <!DOCTYPE HTML> as the first line of your
file.

Why would anyone want to declare an HTML5 doctype on a page that does
not even try to conform to HTML5?
5) HTML reads nicer if you don't put the tags in caps (personal
preference).

Why would your personal preference on case of letters in tags matter here?

(The questions above are rhetorical.)
 
R

richard

That decision is absolutely ludicrous. What next, a paraplegic suing
for discrimination for being refused a job as a night club bouncer?

As far as I can see, it is not necessary at all to declare a file type
from HTML 5; having said that, leaving aside CSS, what alterations
would you make to the code of the following file? It has 10 errors
and 4 warnings, which I find strange for such a short file.

I for one, have a hard time trying to fathom that a blind person would even
be using the internet. While a keyboard may be outfitted with braille, how
ya gonna make a screen to display braille so that a blind person could read
it with his fingers? It can't be done.

Although the Australian court in the one case said the website had to use
"ALT" tags for images, how is a blind person gonna read those notes?

So I have to make my website accessible to ONE person who just might be
blind? I don't think so. Further, there is no known coding to make a
website "readable" by a blind person.

Years ago, there was a certain person in 24hoursupport.helpdesk who was
visually impaired and used a scanning device to read the posts. So many of
us began top posting replies so she could find the replies easier.

For you Evan, this was long before you could even read.
 
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R

richard

Maybe RTFM might help? Why do you expect to make a valid pages if you
refuse to learn the rules and then follow them?

He brings up a valid point
Exactly where in the manual does it say the blind must have equal access?
Then, what code do you use to do it with?
I'm not busting my balls over the extremely high probability that one blind
person just might happen to visit my site, then bitch about it because he
can't enjoy the contents. That ain't my problem.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

richard said:
He brings up a valid point
Exactly where in the manual does it say the blind must have equal access?
Then, what code do you use to do it with?
I'm not busting my balls over the extremely high probability that one blind
person just might happen to visit my site, then bitch about it because he
can't enjoy the contents. That ain't my problem.

Note snippage, I was only addressing what I actually quoted. You know,
like how you are supposed to do it...
 
D

Denis McMahon

That decision is absolutely ludicrous. What next, a paraplegic suing for
discrimination for being refused a job as a night club bouncer?

As far as I can see, it is not necessary at all to declare a file type
from HTML 5; having said that, leaving aside CSS, what alterations would
you make to the code of the following file? It has 10 errors and 4
warnings, which I find strange for such a short file.
<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE>OYSTERS: a poem by Alexander Baron</TITLE></HEAD>

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
<h1><i>Oysters</i></h1>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">
<b>

<p>Life was like an oyster without the pearl; <br>I found it washed up
on rocks by the tide. <br>I prized it open, then stared like a churl
<br>Expectantly - what did I find inside?

<p>Sweet **** all!

<p>[The above was first published in <A
HREF="scat_poem.html"><i>Scatoligicus Eroticum</i></a>, February 1993].
<p>
<A HREF="poetry.html">Back To Poetry Index</A>

<p>
</HTML>

1) Add a doctype that allows the deprecated font element
3) Add body element tags around the body
4) Close the unclosed font elements
5) Close the unclosed bold element
6) Close the unclosed p elements
7) Move all b and font element tags inside the block elements containing
the text they apply to
8) Ensure all content was inside appropriate block level elements

-----------8<----------- cut here -----------8<-----------
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://
www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<title>A corrected Baron FuckUp</title>
</head>

<body>

<h1><i><font color="#ff0000">Oysters</font></i></h1>

<p><font color="#000000"><b>Life was like an oyster without the pearl;<br>
I found it washed up on rocks by the tide.<br>
I prized it open, then stared like a churl<br>
Expectantly - what did I find inside?<br>
Sweet **** all!</b></font></p>

<p>[The above was first published in <A
href="scat_poem.html"><i>Scatoligicus Eroticum</i></a>, February 1993].</
p>

<p><A href="poetry.html">Back To Poetry Index</A></p>

</body>
</html>
-----------8<----------- cut here -----------8<-----------

Rgds

Denis McMahon
 
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1

123Jim

In "Oliver", Charles Dickens wrote:
"Sir, if that is the law, then the law is an ass".

An Ohio law once read, "No train may pass until the other has".

In the United States, that UK law does not exist.
From what I read, that UK law is so vague it's pathetic.
Since when does less than one percent cause the rest of the world to
comply?

Yes it does seem vague .. so vague that anyone who has a disability
might successfully sue if they can't access your services.

It's not very different in the US
http://www.icdri.org/CynthiaW/is_ yoursite_ada_compliant.htm
 
R

richard

Educate yourself for once, instead of making yourself look like a
buffoon.


To educate you kind sire, Louis Braille designed the Braille system after
the military style of a system called sonography. Mr. Braille also later
developed a "keyboard" for use by the blind. So that is nothing new.
Stephen Spielberg can not speak. Yet he communicates with a keyboard.
Deaf people use the telephone via the TDD system.

You are touting off this "JAWS" system. How does it handle the various
words in the English language which have different meanings and different
pronunciations even though the spelling is the same?
e.g. "READ". How does JAWS know I want it to say "reed" and not "red"?
Or, it comes across the city name "Reading Ohio". It is pronounced as
"redding" not "reeding".

One MS voice product used to pronounce "read" as "ree add".
Now how is the blind person supposed to know what I wanted to communicate
when that persons hears "ree add"?
So I have to use coding that causes every tom dick and harry voice
manipulator to speak the way a word was intended? I don't think so.

As you should know, one minor change in the way a word is voiced, gives
that word a whole new meaning.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

richard said:
Years ago, there was a certain person in 24hoursupport.helpdesk who was
visually impaired and used a scanning device to read the posts. So many
of us began top posting replies so she could find the replies easier.

According to the Royal National Institute for the Blind, blind people
would rather you did not top-post. Perhaps the person of which you speak
was not a skilled blind person. (Skilled, unlike yourself as well.)

<http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/gey_chr0.htm>
 
D

dorayme

Tim Streater said:
1) <body> and </body> around the body might help.

How, in OP's situation?

2) You really want to close your paragraphs with </p>.

Do you really think the OP is going to take even normally good
suggestions? I say normally because maybe if a person seems
determined to write against best modern practices, ignoring
standard mode, it behoves him to *not* close his elements when it
is strictly unnecessary, to be as consistently bad as possible,
not throw a bone to the goody goodies like some of us and honour
the memory of William of Ockham. <g>
 
D

Doug Miller

That decision is absolutely ludicrous. What next, a paraplegic suing
for discrimination for being refused a job as a night club bouncer?

As far as I can see, it is not necessary at all to declare a file type

It's not necessary to declare a "file type" at all. Did you mean
"document type"? If so, you're mistaken.
from HTML 5; having said that, leaving aside CSS,

Once again refusing to use the single most useful tool for cleaning up
your bloated, invalid HTML...
what alterations
would you make to the code of the following file? It has 10 errors
and 4 warnings, which I find strange for such a short file.

Considering the authorship, I don't find it strange at all.
<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE>OYSTERS: a poem by Alexander Baron</TITLE></HEAD>

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
<h1><i>Oysters</i></h1>
</font>

<!--
How many times do you have to be told that FONT TAGS MUST BE CLOSED
before you get the message??
-->
<FONT COLOR="#000000">
<b>

<p>Life was like an oyster without the pearl;
<br>I found it washed up on rocks by the tide.
<br>I prized it open, then stared like a churl
<br>Expectantly - what did I find inside?
<p>Sweet **** all!
<p>[The above was first published in<A
HREF="scat_poem.html"><i>Scatoligicus Eroticum</i></a>, February
1993].
<p>
<A HREF="poetry.html">Back To Poetry Index</A>

<!--
omit the previous paragraph tag, as it serves no purpose at all
when appearing immediately before the end of the document
-->
 
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D

Doug Miller

I for one, have a hard time trying to fathom that a blind person would even
be using the internet. While a keyboard may be outfitted with braille, how
ya gonna make a screen to display braille so that a blind person could read
it with his fingers? It can't be done.

Of course not. But that's not the only way to communicate with a blind
person.
Although the Australian court in the one case said the website had to use
"ALT" tags for images, how is a blind person gonna read those notes?

With a screen scraper that reads the content out loud.
So I have to make my website accessible to ONE person who just might be
blind? I don't think so. Further, there is no known coding to make a
website "readable" by a blind person.

Perhaps you ought to educate yourself...
Years ago, there was a certain person in 24hoursupport.helpdesk who was
visually impaired and used a scanning device to read the posts. So many of
us began top posting replies so she could find the replies easier.

So you're already aware of the assistive technologies that can help a
blind person to read text (as opposed to reading Braille). Why can you
not imagine how those technologies could be applied to web pages as well
as to newsgroups?
 
D

Doug Miller

Exactly where in the manual does it say the blind must have equal access?

It doesn't say that anywhere in any HTML manual. However, in many
jurisdictions, the *law* says that any site operated by any agency of
the government of that jurisdiction must provide equal access.
Then, what code do you use to do it with?

Google is your friend here.
I'm not busting my balls over the extremely high probability that one blind
person just might happen to visit my site, then bitch about it because he
can't enjoy the contents. That ain't my problem.

That's because you're not engaged in website development for a
municipal, state, or national government. If you were, it damn sure
would be your problem.
 
D

Doug Miller

I'm very familiar with Braille. No need to think you're educating me,
or anyone else here. Educate yourself first, dumbfuck.


Who is Stephen Spielberg? Do you mean Steven Spielberg? He is fully
capable of speaking.

He probably meant Stephen Hawking.
****, you're an idiot.

I won't argue with that...
 
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