C interpreter in Lisp/scheme/python

B

bolega

Sure.  Lots of texts on compilers provide exercises which, in one way or
another suggest how to write an interpreter and perhaps a compiler too
for some language.  Anyone taking a course on compilers is likely to
have followed such exercises in order to pass the course.  Some
instructors are enlightened enough to allow students to pick the
implementation language.

Ask any such instructor.



Beware, he does not tell the readers the financial details. This is
what he wrote to me by email.

<quote>
I would be willing to meet with you here in Berkeley to educate you on
these matters at a consulting rate of $850 per hour, with a minimum
of 8 hours.

RJF
</quote>
 
B

bolega

He's Berkeley's former CS chair and was implementing lisp before
common lisp was a twinkle in anybody's eye. His time is valuable.

Geremy Condra

This makes some sense. He replied on the newsgroup in a lengthy post
that there are sufficient resources out there giving hint that no one
need help me out. Then I was called "lazy" in one email and tersely
given JUST the last name of an author who has many books each many
100s pages, when I asked for a relevant book, as if i am a scholar in
the field, although he did spend lots of words on irrelevant and
unbeneficial things which diminished my enthusiasm. Now, I find out
from you that he has/had a business concern or interest in a company
that is writing/wrote lisp interpreter in C. Correct me if I am making
an error. I dont want to think deprecatingly of any good soul but this
is what i experienced.
 
B

bolega

These two articles

   http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf
   http://www.haskell.org/papers/NSWC/jfp.ps

about language comparisons (Python is in the first but not the second)
might be of interest.

If you want to know how to implement C, there is a pretty good book by
Hanson and Fraser about LCC, called "A Retargetable C Compiler".
Basically a code walkthrough of a small C compiler written in C.

I have decided to limit my goal to tyni LISP interpreter in C because
its a smaller and simpler language.
 
S

Seebs

This makes some sense. He replied on the newsgroup in a lengthy post
that there are sufficient resources out there giving hint that no one
need help me out. Then I was called "lazy" in one email and tersely
given JUST the last name of an author who has many books each many
100s pages, when I asked for a relevant book, as if i am a scholar in
the field, although he did spend lots of words on irrelevant and
unbeneficial things which diminished my enthusiasm.

If you found those "irrelevant and unbeneficial", then while I agree that he
may have been wasting his time, he would have been wasting it even worse
trying to walk you through the technical material when you're clearly
not currently at a stage where you are ready to learn anyway.
Now, I find out
from you that he has/had a business concern or interest in a company
that is writing/wrote lisp interpreter in C. Correct me if I am making
an error. I dont want to think deprecatingly of any good soul but this
is what i experienced.

If you are trying to imply that he was acting in some unethical way, you have
further cemented the notion that trying to talk to you is a waste of anyone's
time. *plonk*

-s
 
F

francogrex

This makes some sense. He replied on the newsgroup in a lengthy post
that there are sufficient resources out there giving hint that no one
need help me out. Then I was called "lazy" in one email and tersely
given JUST the last name of an author who has many books each many
100s pages, when I asked for a relevant book, as if i am a scholar in
the field, although he did spend lots of words on irrelevant and
unbeneficial things which diminished my enthusiasm. Now, I find out
from you that he has/had a business concern or interest in a company
that is writing/wrote lisp interpreter in C. Correct me if I am making
an error. I dont want to think deprecatingly of any good soul but this
is what i experienced.

No, you're not making a bad judgement. He's not the only one who
treats newcomers with disrespect and scorn. Unfortunately many
so-called experts in the field look down on newbies and mistreat
them (in any programming language forum), forgetting in the
process that they were also at a certain time newbies until
someone gentle and nice enough teachers took the trouble to
educate them. On the other hand there are less neurotic experts
out there who are glad to help out someone learning. It's like in
some universities, you have the bad "professors" who are freaks
(probably they have a lot of problems at home, their wives
screwing all the males on the block, daughters drug addicts etc)
and want to take their hatred out on you, and you have the
good and mentally stable professors who actually deserve their
title.
 
G

George Neuner

Unfortunately many so-called experts in the field look down
on newbies and mistreat them (in any programming language forum),
forgetting in the process that they were also at a certain time
newbies until some gentle and nice enough teachers took the
trouble to educate them.

I don't think it's accurate to say that [some] experts really "scorn"
newbies, but I do agree that newbies are occasionally mistreated.

One thing newbies have to realize is that on Usenet you are quite
likely to be talking to people who were there at the beginning and, of
necessity, are largely self educated in whatever the subject matter
might be. Many - I'd even say most - are happy to clarify
understanding and help with complicated problems, but there is a
general expectation that newbies have some basic research skills and
that they have tried to solve their problem before asking for help.

Unfortunately, there is a small percentage of people who think Usenet
and other online forums are for answering homework questions or for
digging out of a jam at work. Getting help depends a lot on how the
question is asked: strident pleas for quick help or demands for an
answer are immediate red flags, but so are questions that begin with
"X is crap, why can't I do ..." and even seemingly polite questions
that are vague or unfocused (possibly indicating little or no thought
behind them) or posts which are directed to a large number of groups
(such as this thread we're in now).

And, of course, in the language forums, drawing comparisons to
non-subject languages is generally considered rude except when done to
illustrate a relevant discussion point. Introducing irrelevant
comparisons, deliberately proselytizing X in a Y group or doing a lot
of complaining about the subject language is bound to attract disdain.

As the Internet has grown, the absolute number of people in that
"small percentage" has grown as well. A newbie can simply be unlucky
enough to ask a question at the wrong time. If there has been a
recent rash of problem posts then experts may accidentally respond
negatively to a legitimate question.

Of course, there are cross-cultural issues too. Many of the technical
groups are English-language. English, even when polite, can seem
harsh and/or abrupt to non-native speakers.

On the whole, moderated groups are more conducive to helping newbies
because the moderator(s) filter obvious red flag posts.

And, finally, newbies themselves should realize that experts are
donating time to answer questions and do get frustrated answering the
same questions over and over. They should not be offended by "cold"
responses that direct them to FAQs or that just give links to study
material. Newbies who need hand-holding or warm welcoming responses
filled with detail should go find a tutor.

... you have the bad "professors" who are freaks
(probably they have a lot of problems at home, their wives
screwing all the males on the block, daughters drug addicts etc)
and want to take their hatred out on you,

Unquestionably, there are experts who need their dosages adjusted. But
the same can be said for some percentage of other users too.

OTOH, newbies often aren't in the position to know who is an expert
.... obviously, anyone able to correctly answer their question knows
more about that specific issue. That doesn't necessarily qualify the
responder as an "expert". Some people get defensive at the edges of
their comfort zones.


Just some thoughts. YMMV.
George
 
F

francogrex

I don't think it's accurate to say that [some] experts really "scorn"
newbies, but I do agree that newbies are occasionally mistreated.

One thing newbies have to realize is that on Usenet you are quite
likely to be talking to people who were there at the beginning and, of
necessity, are largely self educated in whatever the subject matter
might be. Many - I'd even say most - are happy to clarify
understanding and help with complicated problems, but there is a
general expectation that newbies have some basic research skills and
that they have tried to solve their problem before asking for help.

Unfortunately, there is a small percentage of people who think Usenet
and other online forums are for answering homework questions or for
digging out of a jam at work. Getting help depends a lot on how the
question is asked: strident pleas for quick help or demands for an
answer are immediate red flags, but so are questions that begin with
"X is crap, why can't I do ..." and even seemingly polite questions
that are vague or unfocused (possibly indicating little or no thought
behind them) or posts which are directed to a large number of groups
(such as this thread we're in now).

And, of course, in the language forums, drawing comparisons to
non-subject languages is generally considered rude except when done to
illustrate a relevant discussion point. Introducing irrelevant
comparisons, deliberately proselytizing X in a Y group or doing a lot
of complaining about the subject language is bound to attract disdain.

As the Internet has grown, the absolute number of people in that
"small percentage" has grown as well. A newbie can simply be unlucky
enough to ask a question at the wrong time. If there has been a
recent rash of problem posts then experts may accidentally respond
negatively to a legitimate question.

Of course, there are cross-cultural issues too. Many of the technical
groups are English-language. English, even when polite, can seem
harsh and/or abrupt to non-native speakers.

On the whole, moderated groups are more conducive to helping newbies
because the moderator(s) filter obvious red flag posts.

And, finally, newbies themselves should realize that experts are
donating time to answer questions and do get frustrated answering the
same questions over and over. They should not be offended by "cold"
responses that direct them to FAQs or that just give links to study
material. Newbies who need hand-holding or warm welcoming responses
filled with detail should go find a tutor.

... you have the bad "professors" who are freaks
(probably they have a lot of problems at home, their wives
screwing all the males on the block, daughters drug addicts etc)
and want to take their hatred out on you,

Unquestionably, there are experts who need their dosages adjusted. But
the same can be said for some percentage of other users too.

OTOH, newbies often aren't in the position to know who is an expert
... obviously, anyone able to correctly answer their question knows
more about that specific issue. That doesn't necessarily qualify the
responder as an "expert". Some people get defensive at the edges of
their comfort zones.


Just some thoughts. YMMV.
George

Yes I agree, you expressed the thought better than I did. Then let's not go on
with this thread any further and let the newsgroups carry on programming
language support and discussions. Thanks
 

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