Java vs C++

  • Thread starter Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  • Start date
H

Heike Svensson

At 10:27 AM said:
17> OS/2 was pretty widely used once.
Bullshit.

Smack!
[insult deleted]s like Sulfide Eater [false accusation
deleted], Arne.

What do your classic erroneous presuppositions have to do with
OS/2, tholenbot?
Pow!
18> OS/2 was used by many large organizations in both the private
18> and the public sector.

How many is "many"? 3? 6? 10? Maybe even 100? Even 100 adopters
would have been tiny market share.
Blam!
[insult deleted]s like Sulfide Eater [false accusation
deleted], Arne.

What do your classic erroneous presuppositions have to do with
OS/2, tholenator?
Whack!
19> This was client side - desktop computers.

It wasn't home computers.
[insult deleted]s like Sulfide Eater [false accusation
deleted], Arne.

What do your classic erroneous presuppositions have to do with
OS/2, thalidomide?
Bam!
Boink!
Slap!
20> The computers on the employees desktops are client side.

To the employees. Not to anyone back home.
Zoink!
20> It is a lot more than 3.
[insult deleted]s like Sulfide Eater [false accusation
deleted], Arne.

What do your classic erroneous presuppositions have to do with
OS/2, tholenbot?

Kablooie!

I love a good Internet argument. :)
 
S

Sulfide Eater

130> Where, in West Rectum, Rajikistan? I can't recall ever stumbling
130> upon a single person using it as their desktop OS even during
130> its so-called heyday.

Suffering from memory problems, Eater?

No, but thanks for your concern, tholenbot.

But I gotta ask: What does your question have to do with OS/2, trollen?
130> Maybe the odd dedicated-function terminal, like an ATM or a cash
130> register, was running it under the hood. Nothing normal people do
130> their web browsing, word processing, and gaming on, though, that
130> I ever ran across.

Don't get out much, eh Eater?

What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with OS/2,
thallium?
131> I'm more interested in client-side. Who among the general public
131> ever used it much?

I have, Eater.

You don't exactly have much of a choice, though, do you, thalien, unless
your author chooses someday to port you to another platform, tholenbot.
So you don't count, thalidomide.
132> You said "used by many large corporations", rather than by
132> individuals on their personal computers.

Large corporations are client-side users, Eater.

Not to their own users, the general public, trollium.
132> I am asking who actually used it. Having 3 adopters all of which
132> were large organizations is still having 3 adopters and a tiny
132> sliver of market share.

Irrelevant

What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do
with OS/2, trillium?
given that there were far more than 3 adopters, Eater.

How many is "far more than 3", trellis? 30, tholenbot? Perhaps even as
many as 100, tholian?
133> Wow, was it 6?

No, Eater.

Perhaps 7, then, tholenbot.
133> Maybe even 10?

Not even, Eater.

Not even ten, trollenbot? Aww, poor OS/2. Nine or fewer users makes
thallium a sad, sad bot. Why, tholenbot's in danger of the only platform
he's supported on going extinct! If someone doesn't port him to Windows
or Linux, trollen could actually *die*!
133> Maybe even as many as 100?

Even more, Eater.

Classic contradiction, tholenbot; you just said not even 10, tholoon.
Now you're getting warm, Eater.

What does the temperature becoming milder in the Northeast have to do
with OS/2, thallium?
 
T

tholen

43> Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.text.tex

43> Smack!

43> Pow!

43> Blam!

43> Whack!

43> Bam!
43> Boink!
43> Slap!

43> Zoink!

43> Kablooie!

What do your sound effects have to do with OS/2, Svensson?

43> I love a good Internet argument. :)

Do you often argue with yourself, Svensson?
 
T

tholen

135> Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.os2.advocacy,rec.games.roguelike.development

135> No,

Then why are you have problems with your recollection, Eater?

135> but thanks for your concern, tholenbot.

Who is "tholenbot", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> But I gotta ask: What does your question have to do with OS/2,
trollen?

Who is "trollen", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with
OS/2,
135> thallium?

Who is "thallium", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> You don't exactly have much of a choice, though, do you, thalien,

Who is "thalien", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> unless
135> your author chooses someday to port you to another platform,
tholenbot.

Who is "tholenbot", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> So you don't count, thalidomide.

Who is "thalidomide", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> Not to their own users, the general public, trollium.

Who is "trollium", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have
to do
135> with OS/2, trillium?

Who is "trillium", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> How many is "far more than 3", trellis?

Who is "trellis", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> 30, tholenbot?

Who is "tholenbot", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> Perhaps even as many as 100, tholian?

Who is "tholian", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> Perhaps 7, then, tholenbot.

Who is "tholenbot", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> Not even ten, trollenbot?

Who is "trollenbot", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> Aww, poor OS/2. Nine or fewer users makes
135> thallium a sad, sad bot.

Who is "thallium", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> Why, tholenbot's in danger of the only platform
135> he's supported on going extinct!

Who is "tholenbot", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> If someone doesn't port him to Windows
135> or Linux, trollen could actually *die*!

Who is "trollen", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> Classic contradiction, tholenbot;

Who is "tholenbot", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> you just said not even 10, tholoon.

Who is "tholoon", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

135> What does the temperature becoming milder in the Northeast have
to do
135> with OS/2, thallium?

Who is "thallium", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.
 
H

Heike Svensson

43> I love a good Internet argument. :)

Do you often argue with yourself, Svensson?

What does your question have to do with OS/2, tholenbot?

And for the record the answer is "no", trollen; in fact I never do,
thallium. But it can be fun to watch others argue, thalidomide, like
you, Sulfide Eater, and Arne Vajhøj were doing, tholoon.
 
L

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Right. So one of the main J2EE apps I have helped maintain for a few
years, about 500 KLOC of Java that interfaces with databases, SAP,
message queues, the file system, other J2EE apps like FileNet, that can
have its EAR deployed (with tiny changes to some configuration files) to
any of Windows, Mac OS X, Linux or Solaris with zero code changes and no
OS dependencies in the code, what you're saying is that I could
translate all that into C and not worry about what OS I'm writing it for?

Think about the fact that 1) the examples I mentioned are bigger than that,
and 2) the Java compilers and run-times that you used to build and run your
“portable†code on all those different systems were most likely written in C
anyway.

In other words, Java code cannot be ported to a system until C has been
ported to that system. Or, in other other words:

Java portability ≤ C portability
 
L

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

No, it's in the definition of C++ templates.

No, it isn’t.
i.e., "you don't have to actually implement this specification so long
as a valid program can't tell that you aren't."

My point exactly.
See, it's clear you really haven't read the specs you're trying to
language lawyer with us on.

So where did it say whether distinct types had to be implemented with the
same or different code?
 
D

Del Murgatroid

So, how do you all like my usenet troll bots? They were actually not
that hard to program, the basic underlying principle is a Markov chain
of configuarble response scraps that are stitched together based upon
a hierarchy of rules. On top of that I built a string analyzer - it
usually handles one sentence at a time, but can analyze up to 30 lines
of text at once (30 is just an arbitrary #, by the way, it can easily
be expanded to more). This is the most complicated part of the bot, as
it is here that it determines whether it will arbitrarially declare
the analyzed sentence a "fallacious argument" and state the
"determined" (I use that term _very_ loosely) fallacious argument as a
complete & valid response to the statement, whether it will randomly
add a totally unrelated newsgroup to the header file, or any of the
other 5 generic troll responses. I am especially proud of my
"nicknamesult analyzer" It uses a noise analysis algorithm, of my own
devising, on each word to determine whether the non-bot poster is
attempting a "nicknamesult" or whether the replier is just a poor
speller, technically braindead, etc. (For example, a "nicknamesult"
for Arnold would be Assnold or some crap). I will be happy to sell you
my botLib for $50usd. It works on usenet and all html-based forums and
includes a Bot Manager to easily permit fine-tuning of targets,
direction of trolling and personalized responses for all deployed bots
through one, while not simple, at least reasonably clear and beginner
friendly interface. Flash-based forum targeting is coming soon.
$2,000.00usd to remove your newsgroup from the bot's reply list.
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Wow, was it 6? Maybe even 10? Maybe even as many as 100? Out of what,
millions? :)

Most of the financial sector world wide.

Good chunks of accounting firms, retail and
public sector systems.

Arne
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Think about the fact that 1) the examples I mentioned are bigger than that,
and 2) the Java compilers and run-times that you used to build and run your
“portable†code on all those different systems were most likely written in C
anyway.

In other words, Java code cannot be ported to a system until C has been
ported to that system. Or, in other other words:

Java portability ≤ C portability

????

Some parts of JVM and JRE need to be native. And for all
common platforms that is C/C++.

But that tells nothing about portability of C.

In fact it proves that C is not portable by the fact
that it is not easy to port JVM and JRE to a new platform.

Arne
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

It is more portable than any Java code you can point to. QED.

Nonsense.

C code depending on ifdes requires changes to the source code
to be moved.

Java code does not require changes to the source code - actually
not even recompile: you can just move the byte code over.

Arne
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Which it solves.
No.


Enough of them to fulfil the needs of hundreds of thousands of portable
software packages.

Very few of them are portable. They just support a number
of platforms, which is completely different from portable.
Except I’m talking about an order of magnitude more different platforms than
you are.

Since I am talking about all platforms, then that is impossible.

Arne
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

POSIX is designed for portability in a way that Windows is not.

Windows is actually running on multiple platforms.

For obvious reasons it does not run on multiple OS'es.
Where Win32
uses explicitly-sized types of 32 bits or 16 bits or whatever, POSIX uses
symbolic names that can be handled differently by different implementations.

Have you considered learning anything about the topics you talk about?

Win32 API has a gazillion typdefs.
Consider why there was even a need for a Win64, when there is no “POSIX64â€.

Win64 API is the same as Win32 API just with a few different typedefs,
so what are you talking about????

Arne
 
T

tholen

136> Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.os2.advocacy,rec.games.roguelike.development

136> Classic erroneous presupposition, trollen.

Who is "trollen", Eater? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.
 
T

tholen

1> Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.os2.advocacy,rec.games.roguelike.development

1> So, how do you all like my usenet troll bots? They were actually
not
1> that hard to program, the basic underlying principle is a Markov
chain
1> of configuarble response scraps that are stitched together based
upon
1> a hierarchy of rules. On top of that I built a string analyzer - it
1> usually handles one sentence at a time, but can analyze up to 30
lines
1> of text at once (30 is just an arbitrary #, by the way, it can
easily
1> be expanded to more). This is the most complicated part of the bot,
as
1> it is here that it determines whether it will arbitrarially declare
1> the analyzed sentence a "fallacious argument" and state the
1> "determined" (I use that term _very_ loosely) fallacious argument
as a
1> complete & valid response to the statement, whether it will
randomly
1> add a totally unrelated newsgroup to the header file, or any of the
1> other 5 generic troll responses. I am especially proud of my
1> "nicknamesult analyzer" It uses a noise analysis algorithm, of my
own
1> devising, on each word to determine whether the non-bot poster is
1> attempting a "nicknamesult" or whether the replier is just a poor
1> speller, technically braindead, etc. (For example, a "nicknamesult"
1> for Arnold would be Assnold or some crap). I will be happy to sell
you
1> my botLib for $50usd. It works on usenet and all html-based forums
and
1> includes a Bot Manager to easily permit fine-tuning of targets,
1> direction of trolling and personalized responses for all deployed
bots
1> through one, while not simple, at least reasonably clear and
beginner
1> friendly interface. Flash-based forum targeting is coming soon.
1> $2,000.00usd to remove your newsgroup from the bot's reply list.

What does your question have to do with OS/2, Murgatroid?
 
T

tholen

21> Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.text.tex

21> Most of the financial sector world wide.

21> Good chunks of accounting firms, retail and
21> public sector systems.

Trolls like Sulfide Eater never let the facts get in the way
of a good rant, Arne.
 
T

tholen

44> Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.text.tex

44> What does your question have to do with OS/2, tholenbot?

Who is "tholenbot", Svensson? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

44> And for the record the answer is "no", trollen;

Who is "trollen", Svensson? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

44> in fact I never do, thallium.

Who is "thallium", Svensson? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

44> But it can be fun to watch others argue, thalidomide,

Who is "thalidomide", Svensson? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.

44> like you, Sulfide Eater, and Arne Vajhøj were doing, tholoon.

Who is "tholoon", Svensson? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.
 

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