Ivan said:
Ah... you're just going to call me a liar rather than realize you're
wrong?
I'm not calling you a liar, I'm asking for clarification. The fact that you can't
provide any indicates you are simply parroting what others have told you.
MS uses Embrace and Enhance as a strategy to kill competitive technology.
So everything they do must be a variant of embrace and enhance (it's "embrace,
extend and extinguish" <url:
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-512681.html?legacy=zdnn />
by the way), and is, if you just look hard enough and apply the concept to enough
coincidences. Because Microsoft is The Evil Empire!
MS's tcp/ip stack is not compliant with the RFC (though I doubt that has
anything to do with EandE).
"the RFC"? TCP/IP is a suite of protocols, which RFC(s) do you refer to precisely?
RFC 791 Internet Protocol? RFC 793 Transmission Control Protocol? RFC 768 User
Datagram Protocol? RFC 792 Internet Control Message Protocol? others? And in
_exactly_ what (damaging) ways does Microsoft's suite of protocol(s) vary from the
RFC(s)?
Besides, variation from "the RFC" isn't embrace and enhance[sic] to extinguish
TCP/IP unless it has a damaging affect on the way TCP/IP works on the Internet, or
Windows machines in particular. The fact that millions of Windows computers
world-wide interact on the Internet without bringing it or themselves to their knees
seems to point to the fact that whatever differences Microsoft has included are not
fatal to the operation of the Internet or their own interaction with it.
As I said, whatever you write will be a combination of mis-information (refering to
"the [TCP/IP] RFC") and your bias against Microsoft formed from years of reading
slashdot.org ("MS uses Embrace and Enhance as a strategy to kill competitive
technology" - which was said - and misquoted by you - by _one_ person 6 years ago).
Javascript was the same across all browsers until IE was released.
Since Java(Live)script only existed in Netscape browsers before IE supported
JScript, I guess that's a true enough statement. Once someone else released an
implementation of Javascript it could no longer be "the same" because it runs on
another user agent. Not including the document.images collection [below] was more a
question of the timing of the release of JScript in IE3, rather then any deliberate
act to do damage to Java(Live)script. I'm sure if Microsoft had had time, they would
have wanted to include all the functionality of the original Java(Live)script, since
at that point it became a feature race.
Java was a write once run anywhere language until MS wrote their version
of Java... or did you miss that whole thing between Sun and MS? or the DOJ
trials?
Java compiled with Sun's Java 1.1.x compilers runs on Microsoft's JVM, Java compiled
with J++ with Microsoft extensions enabled does not run on other Virtual Machines.
Avoid the extensions and the code runs elsewhere. Sun managed to convince the courts
that somehow developers compiling Java with extensions to make it run more
efficiently on their platform choice (or through ignorance) was damaging to them.
There are lots of features that are in ECMAScript now that weren't in the first
release of Javascript, there are some that are deprecated and some methods have
actually changed how they behave. None of these
I never suggested this statement was incorrect... it is however irrelivent
to the subject because Netscape/Mozilla's implimentation of the language
existed before the ECMA standard.
And that's my point. If the language that inspired the standard came _before_ the
standard, then why doesn't the standard conform to the language which inspired it?
The history of JavaScript (unless you think O'Reily lies too):
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2001/04/06/js_history.html
An Excerpt:
"ECMAScript: an attempt at standardization
The introduction of IE3 and its unfortunate lack of support for the
document.images array led Netscape and Sun to standardize the language
with help from the European Computer Manufacturers Association (ECMA),
giving us yet another name for what had by now become a strange hybrid of
powerful and universally supported core functionality and often
incompatible object models: ECMAScript. Standardization was begun in
conjunction with ECMA in November 1996 and adopted in June 1997 by ECMA
and by ISO in April 1998.
document.images is part of the DOM, _not_ the language. That entire paragraph talks
about the _object model_ (DOM) of the various browsers. Which is different from the
ECMAScript _language_. The document object of which the images[] collection is a
member isn't even part of ECMAScript, nor is the Image() object itself. The
inclusion or exclusion of these user agent DOM objects and collections does not
dictate the level of ECMAScript compliance in the user agent.
In the meantime, as ECMAScript was being standardized (but unfortunately
neglecting everything but the core language), Netscape and Microsoft
introduced the 4.0 browser generation, each browser with its own
completely proprietary document object model, and "Dynamic HTML" became
the next morass into which JavaScript's good heart was dragged."
"...ECMAScript was being standardized (but unfortunately neglecting everything but
the core language)..." wow, that's a goofy thing to say. ECMA-262 is the standard
for the _language_, it "neglected everything but the core language" because the only
thing it was a standard for was the core language. Duh.
If you want to complain about user agent DOM standardization, you are talking about
the W3C DOM standards (<url:
http://www.w3.org/DOM/ />).
You seem to be arguing that JScript implementations aren't ECMAScript compliant when
what you seem to mean is that the user agent DOM isn't W3C compliant. Once you
figure out what the point you're trying to make is, get back to me.