OT: Google's latest dungheap

[Old Wolf]

Starting a new thread because the other discussion was
buried in the depths of some other thread.

The problem: Google has introduced a new interface for
Google Groups that makes it much harder to use. The
main problem discussed so far is that there is an
advertising bar on the right hand side of the screen
that has a fixed width of about 200 pixels. Combined
with the tree-view bar on the left, this means messages
are pretty much unreadable in 800x600 res or lower.
In fact I even find it frustrating trying to read at 1024x768.

Someone commented that they couldn't resize the
tree-view frame; on mine (Firefox 2.0) you can make
it bigger but not make it smaller.

Matezvb chimed in with this code which will make the
right-hand side bar disappear. just paste it into the
address bar (all on one line). I managed to load it as
a bookmark so now I just have to click a button at the
top of the screen.

javascriptfunction(){var i,
n=document.getElementById("google_ads_site").parentNode.parentNode.pare
ntNode.parentNode,
cols=document.getElementsByTagName("col");n.style.display="none";
for(i=0;i<cols.length;i++){if(cols.style.width=="32ex")
{cols.style.display="none";break;} } })();

Now, I have two more problems with the site that
nobody has mentioned yet

Firstly, one of my PCs is a P2-333, and it takes
perhaps 2 seconds to render each page because
of the colossal amounts of AJAX scripting (I presume)
behind the new appearance, In fact, once I have opened
more than about 5 pages at once, Firefox's memory
usage balloons out to 120M+ and if I load 10 pages
the machine almost grinds to a halt.

Secondly, they seem to have removed the 'Preview'
option. I like to preview my posts to check I have
got the wordwrapping right (which is doubly hard
because the font for posting is not monospaced),
now I can't do that and often I have noticed my
posts come out looking horrible. (Sorry in advance
if this is one such post!)

Someone commented that they don't seem to put
much effort into Google Groups; they have obviously
spent a lot of development effort on it (there is a
lot of graphics and AJAX etc.), but clearly they have
failed to anticipate the needs of at least this section
of the community.

 

[Ian Collins]

Matezvb chimed in with this code which will make the
right-hand side bar disappear. just paste it into the
address bar (all on one line). I managed to load it as
a bookmark so now I just have to click a button at the
top of the screen.

javascriptfunction(){var i,
n=document.getElementById("google_ads_site").parentNode.parentNode.pare
ntNode.parentNode,
cols=document.getElementsByTagName("col");n.style.display="none";
for(i=0;i<cols.length;i++){if(cols.style.width=="32ex")
{cols.style.display="none";break;} } })();

s/google_ads_site/google_ads_frame/

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Old Wolf said:

Starting a new thread because the other discussion was
buried in the depths of some other thread.

The problem: Google has introduced a new interface for
Google Groups that makes it much harder to use.

<shrug> So don't use it. End of problem.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Old Wolf wrote, On 27/01/07 22:38:

Starting a new thread because the other discussion was
buried in the depths of some other thread.

The problem: Google has introduced a new interface for
Google Groups that makes it much harder to use. The

<snip Google being a pain for accessing Usenet>

There are several free news servers out there to give you real access.
The current free ones I use are:
news.motzarella.org
news.gmane.org
news.x-privat.org
news.gazeta.pl

There are others. If you can't use one due to post blocking then email
me and I might be able to help you out.

 

[santosh]

Starting a new thread because the other discussion was
buried in the depths of some other thread.

The problem: Google has introduced a new interface for
Google Groups that makes it much harder to use. The
main problem discussed so far is that there is an
advertising bar on the right hand side of the screen
that has a fixed width of about 200 pixels. Combined
with the tree-view bar on the left, this means messages
are pretty much unreadable in 800x600 res or lower.
In fact I even find it frustrating trying to read at 1024x768.

Someone commented that they couldn't resize the
tree-view frame; on mine (Firefox 2.0) you can make
it bigger but not make it smaller.

Matezvb chimed in with this code which will make the
right-hand side bar disappear. just paste it into the
address bar (all on one line). I managed to load it as
a bookmark so now I just have to click a button at the
top of the screen.

javascriptfunction(){var i,
n=document.getElementById("google_ads_site").parentNode.parentNode.pare
ntNode.parentNode,
cols=document.getElementsByTagName("col");n.style.display="none";
for(i=0;i<cols.length;i++){if(cols.style.width=="32ex")
{cols.style.display="none";break;} } })();

I don't know why, but the bookmark disappears everytime I restart
Firefox...

Now, I have two more problems with the site that
nobody has mentioned yet

Just two more huh?

Firstly, one of my PCs is a P2-333,

That's ancient.

and it takes
perhaps 2 seconds to render each page because
of the colossal amounts of AJAX scripting (I presume)
behind the new appearance, In fact, once I have opened
more than about 5 pages at once, Firefox's memory
usage balloons out to 120M+ and if I load 10 pages
the machine almost grinds to a halt.

Yes. Apart from assuming 1600x1200 resolution, Google seems to assume
atleast 3 Ghz processor with 1 GB RAM. Oh well, it's the "Vista
effect."

Secondly, they seem to have removed the 'Preview'
option. I like to preview my posts to check I have
got the wordwrapping right (which is doubly hard
because the font for posting is not monospaced),
now I can't do that and often I have noticed my
posts come out looking horrible. (Sorry in advance
if this is one such post!)

I never use Preview, but somehow, as far as I recall, the formatting
has never been mangled.

Someone commented that they don't seem to put
much effort into Google Groups; they have obviously
spent a lot of development effort on it (there is a
lot of graphics and AJAX etc.), but clearly they have
failed to anticipate the needs of at least this section
of the community.

Who needs graphics for a text interface. The old interface, which was
itself a "beta" for a year or two, was just about as good as Google
could get, as far as Usenet was concerned.

Google is well used, precisely because of it's low graphics and
clutter, unlike most other sites. I don't care about what they do to
their private groups, but I wish they'd left the Usenet interface
untouched.

 

[Old Wolf]

Old Wolf wrote, On 27/01/07 22:38:


There are several free news servers out there to give you real access.

I've never really liked newsreaders that I've tried. What I like about
Google is:
- can use it anywhere -- every PC has a web browser
- no need to configure firewalls etc.
- Fast to browse the NG hierarchy
- All messages are available for a NG -- you don't have
to wait for anything to download, or have messages
missing, or have messages older than 4 weeks dead, etc.
- Preview feature (until now!)
- The frame with the tree view, and the other frame with
all of the messages in it (it's much faster to scroll as you
go and read 10 messages in a row, than have to click on
each one, wait for it to load, etc. etc.)

If you try newsgroups with Moz Thunderbird then it is like
reading a bunch of emails very slowly, old messages are
not there, it's hard to follow the thread, and just generally
unpleasant.

 

[Ian Collins]

If you try newsgroups with Moz Thunderbird then it is like
reading a bunch of emails very slowly, old messages are
not there, it's hard to follow the thread, and just generally
unpleasant.

Unless your link is a piece of string, I'm sure the messages download
faster than you can read them!

You can setup the newsreader to retain old messages and thread them,
which gives the same view as the google tree.

 

[santosh]

Old Wolf wrote, On 27/01/07 22:38:

<snip Google being a pain for accessing Usenet>

There are several free news servers out there to give you real access.
The current free ones I use are:
news.motzarella.org
news.gmane.org
news.x-privat.org
news.gazeta.pl

I'd also add nntp.aioe.org to that list.

 

[CBFalconer]

Old Wolf wrote, On 27/01/07 22:38:


<snip Google being a pain for accessing Usenet>

There are several free news servers out there to give you real access.
The current free ones I use are:
news.motzarella.org
news.gmane.org
news.x-privat.org
news.gazeta.pl

There are others. If you can't use one due to post blocking then email
me and I might be able to help you out.

I took a look at your list. The results are in my sig. below. You
may need to click on a Union Jack to get English. I couldn't
decipher anything at gazeta.pl, it seems to be jammed to Polish.

--
Some free news servers. I use teranews and gmane.
<http://www.teranews.com> (1 time charge) (free)
<http://news.aioe.org> (free)
<http://dotsrc.org> (free)
<http://www.x-privat.org/international.php> (free)
<http://motzarella.org/?language=en> (free)
<http://gmane.org/> (mail-lists via news) (free)
<http://www.newsfeeds.com/signup.htm> (pay)
<http://www.individual.net/ (low pay)

 

[David T. Ashley]

The problem: Google has introduced a new interface for
Google Groups that makes it much harder to use. The
main problem discussed so far is that there is an
advertising bar on the right hand side of the screen
that has a fixed width of about 200 pixels. Combined
with the tree-view bar on the left, this means messages
are pretty much unreadable in 800x600 res or lower.
In fact I even find it frustrating trying to read at 1024x768.

On my machine at least, I could make the tree-view bar go away (there was a
close box). I agree that the space left in the center for actual posts is
getting fairly small.

Posting to this group probably makes you feel better but is ineffective.
The approach I'd recommend is to draft a letter outlining your complaints
and send it Fedex with a box of chocolates to a senior officer or CEO of
Google. Just get your complaints in the hands of someone who can
investigate it and make it a priority to investigate the dissatisfaction. I
suspect it would cost you about $40 to do this.

Surveys won't help. Interacting with Google employees low on the food chain
won't help. Google has developed a fair amount of organizational inertia
ala Dilbert.

Someone commented that they couldn't resize the
tree-view frame; on mine (Firefox 2.0) you can make
it bigger but not make it smaller.

I also could not resize it.

Firstly, one of my PCs is a P2-333, and it takes
perhaps 2 seconds to render each page because
of the colossal amounts of AJAX scripting (I presume)
behind the new appearance, In fact, once I have opened
more than about 5 pages at once, Firefox's memory
usage balloons out to 120M+ and if I load 10 pages
the machine almost grinds to a halt.

Um ... Dell has new PC's for around 500. It is time.

Secondly, they seem to have removed the 'Preview'
option. I like to preview my posts to check I have
got the wordwrapping right (which is doubly hard
because the font for posting is not monospaced),
now I can't do that and often I have noticed my
posts come out looking horrible. (Sorry in advance
if this is one such post!)

Yep, I agree.

Someone commented that they don't seem to put
much effort into Google Groups; they have obviously
spent a lot of development effort on it (there is a
lot of graphics and AJAX etc.), but clearly they have
failed to anticipate the needs of at least this section
of the community.

Yeah, you need to get your complaint in the hands of Google senior
management.

 

[Roland Pibinger]

I've never really liked newsreaders that I've tried. What I like about
Google is:
- can use it anywhere -- every PC has a web browser
- no need to configure firewalls etc.

http://www.talkaboutprogramming.com/group/comp.lang.c/

This is another web interface to news but in sum not as good as
Google.

Best wishes,
Roland Pibinger

 

[matevzb]

Now, I have two more problems with the site that
nobody has mentioned yet

Firstly, one of my PCs is a P2-333, and it takes
perhaps 2 seconds to render each page because
of the colossal amounts of AJAX scripting (I presume)
behind the new appearance, In fact, once I have opened
more than about 5 pages at once, Firefox's memory
usage balloons out to 120M+ and if I load 10 pages
the machine almost grinds to a halt.

Check the cache usage first (before buying a new machine =) by typing
about:cache in the address bar. If it's too high, you might want to
lower it by opening about:config and modifying the
browser.cache.memory.capacity setting. More info can be found at
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.cache.memory.capacity.

Secondly, they seem to have removed the 'Preview'
option. I like to preview my posts to check I have
got the wordwrapping right (which is doubly hard
because the font for posting is not monospaced),
now I can't do that and often I have noticed my
posts come out looking horrible. (Sorry in advance
if this is one such post!)

I don't get this either. Preview was a really nice feature, plus they
now seem to misquote when replying to more than one level of quotes
(newlines incorrectly stripped?).

 

[Default User]

Um ... Dell has new PC's for around 500. It is time.

This is a poor attitude. I also use an older PC at home, it works fine
and should be adequate for web browsing. While $500 is a low price
historically for PCs, it's still a needless expenditure.




Brian

 

[David T. Ashley]

This is a poor attitude. I also use an older PC at home, it works fine
and should be adequate for web browsing. While $500 is a low price
historically for PCs, it's still a needless expenditure.

I understand your response, but ... the author of any kind of software has
to make assumptions about the speed and capability of the target computer.
As computers get faster and more capable, you can't continue to support
ancient hardware indefinitely. A 333Mhz machine is about at the reasonable
cutoff point.

It simply isn't technically possible to support older hardware beyond a
certain point ...

 

[CBFalconer]

This is a poor attitude. I also use an older PC at home, it works
fine and should be adequate for web browsing. While $500 is a low
price historically for PCs, it's still a needless expenditure.

The most expensive machine around here is the laptop, at under
$500, used. After that the peak price was $62. Other machines
were generally free, but all needed memory upgrades. The $62
machine now has ECC memory, and can be considered reliable at a
total expense of about $200.

Five year old machines are available everywhere. You can pick the
high quality ones. My middle name is cheap.

 

[Ben Pfaff]

Five year old machines are available everywhere. You can pick the
high quality ones. My middle name is cheap.

I always assumed that your middle name started with "B".

 

[santosh]

This is a poor attitude. I also use an older PC at home, it works fine
and should be adequate for web browsing. While $500 is a low price
historically for PCs, it's still a needless expenditure.

I agree. My PC is five years old, and I plan on running it till
something critical breaks. It's one more reason I favour Linux. It
runs fine on old hardware, while still having support for new ones.
The system requirements for Vista on the other hand...

 

[Keith Thompson]

I always assumed that your middle name started with "B".

Bargainhunter?

 

[Richard Heathfield]

David T. Ashley said:

I understand your response, but ... the author of any kind of software has
to make assumptions about the speed and capability of the target computer.
Why?

As computers get faster and more capable, you can't continue to support
ancient hardware indefinitely.

Why not?

A 333Mhz machine is about at the reasonable cutoff point.

333 MHz? Why?

It simply isn't technically possible to support older hardware beyond a
certain point ...

It isn't acceptable to abandon older hardware if your customers require
otherwise. FTR I still regularly run stuff on an AMD K6 at way under
300MHz, and occasionally I run tests on a 386 at about a tenth of that
speed.

 

[Chris Dollin]

Starting a new thread because the other discussion was
buried in the depths of some other thread.

The problem: Google has introduced a new interface for
Google Groups that makes it much harder to use.

This was on topic why?