OT: Google's latest dungheap

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Old Wolf, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Old Wolf

    Old Wolf Guest

    Starting a new thread because the other discussion was
    buried in the depths of some other thread.

    The problem: Google has introduced a new interface for
    Google Groups that makes it much harder to use. The
    main problem discussed so far is that there is an
    advertising bar on the right hand side of the screen
    that has a fixed width of about 200 pixels. Combined
    with the tree-view bar on the left, this means messages
    are pretty much unreadable in 800x600 res or lower.
    In fact I even find it frustrating trying to read at 1024x768.

    Someone commented that they couldn't resize the
    tree-view frame; on mine (Firefox 2.0) you can make
    it bigger but not make it smaller.

    Matezvb chimed in with this code which will make the
    right-hand side bar disappear. just paste it into the
    address bar (all on one line). I managed to load it as
    a bookmark so now I just have to click a button at the
    top of the screen.

    javascript:(function(){var i,
    n=document.getElementById("google_ads_site").parentNode.parentNode.pare
    ntNode.parentNode,
    cols=document.getElementsByTagName("col");n.style.display="none";
    for(i=0;i<cols.length;i++){if(cols.style.width=="32ex")
    {cols.style.display="none";break;} } })();

    Now, I have two more problems with the site that
    nobody has mentioned yet :)

    Firstly, one of my PCs is a P2-333, and it takes
    perhaps 2 seconds to render each page because
    of the colossal amounts of AJAX scripting (I presume)
    behind the new appearance, In fact, once I have opened
    more than about 5 pages at once, Firefox's memory
    usage balloons out to 120M+ and if I load 10 pages
    the machine almost grinds to a halt.

    Secondly, they seem to have removed the 'Preview'
    option. I like to preview my posts to check I have
    got the wordwrapping right (which is doubly hard
    because the font for posting is not monospaced),
    now I can't do that and often I have noticed my
    posts come out looking horrible. (Sorry in advance
    if this is one such post!)

    Someone commented that they don't seem to put
    much effort into Google Groups; they have obviously
    spent a lot of development effort on it (there is a
    lot of graphics and AJAX etc.), but clearly they have
    failed to anticipate the needs of at least this section
    of the community.
     
    Old Wolf, Jan 27, 2007
    #1
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  2. Old Wolf

    Ian Collins Guest


    s/google_ads_site/google_ads_frame/
     
    Ian Collins, Jan 27, 2007
    #2
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  3. Old Wolf said:
    <shrug> So don't use it. End of problem.
     
    Richard Heathfield, Jan 27, 2007
    #3
  4. Old Wolf

    Flash Gordon Guest

    Old Wolf wrote, On 27/01/07 22:38:
    <snip Google being a pain for accessing Usenet>

    There are several free news servers out there to give you real access.
    The current free ones I use are:
    news.motzarella.org
    news.gmane.org
    news.x-privat.org
    news.gazeta.pl

    There are others. If you can't use one due to post blocking then email
    me and I might be able to help you out.
     
    Flash Gordon, Jan 27, 2007
    #4
  5. Old Wolf

    santosh Guest



    I don't know why, but the bookmark disappears everytime I restart
    Firefox...
    Just two more huh?
    That's ancient.
    Yes. Apart from assuming 1600x1200 resolution, Google seems to assume
    atleast 3 Ghz processor with 1 GB RAM. Oh well, it's the "Vista
    effect."
    I never use Preview, but somehow, as far as I recall, the formatting
    has never been mangled.
    Who needs graphics for a text interface. The old interface, which was
    itself a "beta" for a year or two, was just about as good as Google
    could get, as far as Usenet was concerned.

    Google is well used, precisely because of it's low graphics and
    clutter, unlike most other sites. I don't care about what they do to
    their private groups, but I wish they'd left the Usenet interface
    untouched.
     
    santosh, Jan 28, 2007
    #5
  6. Old Wolf

    Old Wolf Guest

    I've never really liked newsreaders that I've tried. What I like about
    Google is:
    - can use it anywhere -- every PC has a web browser
    - no need to configure firewalls etc.
    - Fast to browse the NG hierarchy
    - All messages are available for a NG -- you don't have
    to wait for anything to download, or have messages
    missing, or have messages older than 4 weeks dead, etc.
    - Preview feature (until now!)
    - The frame with the tree view, and the other frame with
    all of the messages in it (it's much faster to scroll as you
    go and read 10 messages in a row, than have to click on
    each one, wait for it to load, etc. etc.)

    If you try newsgroups with Moz Thunderbird then it is like
    reading a bunch of emails very slowly, old messages are
    not there, it's hard to follow the thread, and just generally
    unpleasant.
     
    Old Wolf, Jan 28, 2007
    #6
  7. Old Wolf

    Ian Collins Guest

    Unless your link is a piece of string, I'm sure the messages download
    faster than you can read them!

    You can setup the newsreader to retain old messages and thread them,
    which gives the same view as the google tree.
     
    Ian Collins, Jan 28, 2007
    #7
  8. Old Wolf

    santosh Guest

    I'd also add nntp.aioe.org to that list.
     
    santosh, Jan 28, 2007
    #8
  9. Old Wolf

    CBFalconer Guest

    I took a look at your list. The results are in my sig. below. You
    may need to click on a Union Jack to get English. I couldn't
    decipher anything at gazeta.pl, it seems to be jammed to Polish.

    --
    Some free news servers. I use teranews and gmane.
    <http://www.teranews.com> (1 time charge) (free)
    <http://news.aioe.org> (free)
    <http://dotsrc.org> (free)
    <http://www.x-privat.org/international.php> (free)
    <http://motzarella.org/?language=en> (free)
    <http://gmane.org/> (mail-lists via news) (free)
    <http://www.newsfeeds.com/signup.htm> (pay)
    <http://www.individual.net/ (low pay)
     
    CBFalconer, Jan 28, 2007
    #9
  10. On my machine at least, I could make the tree-view bar go away (there was a
    close box). I agree that the space left in the center for actual posts is
    getting fairly small.

    Posting to this group probably makes you feel better but is ineffective.
    The approach I'd recommend is to draft a letter outlining your complaints
    and send it Fedex with a box of chocolates to a senior officer or CEO of
    Google. Just get your complaints in the hands of someone who can
    investigate it and make it a priority to investigate the dissatisfaction. I
    suspect it would cost you about $40 to do this.

    Surveys won't help. Interacting with Google employees low on the food chain
    won't help. Google has developed a fair amount of organizational inertia
    ala Dilbert.
    I also could not resize it.
    Um ... Dell has new PC's for around 500. It is time.
    Yep, I agree.

    Yeah, you need to get your complaint in the hands of Google senior
    management.
     
    David T. Ashley, Jan 28, 2007
    #10
  11. http://www.talkaboutprogramming.com/group/comp.lang.c/

    This is another web interface to news but in sum not as good as
    Google.

    Best wishes,
    Roland Pibinger
     
    Roland Pibinger, Jan 28, 2007
    #11
  12. Old Wolf

    matevzb Guest

    Check the cache usage first (before buying a new machine =) by typing
    about:cache in the address bar. If it's too high, you might want to
    lower it by opening about:config and modifying the
    browser.cache.memory.capacity setting. More info can be found at
    http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.cache.memory.capacity.
    I don't get this either. Preview was a really nice feature, plus they
    now seem to misquote when replying to more than one level of quotes
    (newlines incorrectly stripped?).
     
    matevzb, Jan 28, 2007
    #12
  13. Old Wolf

    Default User Guest

    This is a poor attitude. I also use an older PC at home, it works fine
    and should be adequate for web browsing. While $500 is a low price
    historically for PCs, it's still a needless expenditure.




    Brian
     
    Default User, Jan 28, 2007
    #13
  14. I understand your response, but ... the author of any kind of software has
    to make assumptions about the speed and capability of the target computer.
    As computers get faster and more capable, you can't continue to support
    ancient hardware indefinitely. A 333Mhz machine is about at the reasonable
    cutoff point.

    It simply isn't technically possible to support older hardware beyond a
    certain point ...
     
    David T. Ashley, Jan 29, 2007
    #14
  15. Old Wolf

    CBFalconer Guest

    The most expensive machine around here is the laptop, at under
    $500, used. After that the peak price was $62. Other machines
    were generally free, but all needed memory upgrades. The $62
    machine now has ECC memory, and can be considered reliable at a
    total expense of about $200.

    Five year old machines are available everywhere. You can pick the
    high quality ones. My middle name is cheap.
     
    CBFalconer, Jan 29, 2007
    #15
  16. Old Wolf

    Ben Pfaff Guest

    I always assumed that your middle name started with "B".
     
    Ben Pfaff, Jan 29, 2007
    #16
  17. Old Wolf

    santosh Guest

    I agree. My PC is five years old, and I plan on running it till
    something critical breaks. It's one more reason I favour Linux. It
    runs fine on old hardware, while still having support for new ones.
    The system requirements for Vista on the other hand...
     
    santosh, Jan 29, 2007
    #17
  18. Bargainhunter?
     
    Keith Thompson, Jan 29, 2007
    #18
  19. David T. Ashley said:
    Why not?
    333 MHz? Why?
    It isn't acceptable to abandon older hardware if your customers require
    otherwise. FTR I still regularly run stuff on an AMD K6 at way under
    300MHz, and occasionally I run tests on a 386 at about a tenth of that
    speed.
     
    Richard Heathfield, Jan 29, 2007
    #19
  20. Old Wolf

    Chris Dollin Guest

    This was on topic why?
     
    Chris Dollin, Jan 29, 2007
    #20
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