Perl usage these days?

T

thumb_42

Just a curious question:

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.

So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?

(Yes, I know these are FAQ's, but times change, I'm curious about what
people think these days)

Jamie
 
T

Tad McClellan

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are
dreamt of in your philosophy."

There is lots and lots of computing that is not "web related".

So... what are people doing with it?


The same things they were doing with Perl for all those years before
the web was invented, plus some more.
 
A

Ala Qumsieh

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

I have been using Perl at work on almost a daily basis for at least 6 years,
at three different companies in two different countries. Nothing of what I
do is web or IT related.

--Ala
 
A

at

Just a curious question:

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.

So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?

(Yes, I know these are FAQ's, but times change, I'm curious about what
people think these days)

Jamie

My $.02 worth:

Perl is wonderful for text processing. We use it for batch processing
of numerous types of files, generation of email from data content,
generation of forms and formatted letters, etc., etc., etc.

And, our production web site is 100% Perl.

Bob
 
T

thumb_42

Bob Mariotti said:
My $.02 worth:

Perl is wonderful for text processing. We use it for batch processing
of numerous types of files, generation of email from data content,
generation of forms and formatted letters, etc., etc., etc.

And, our production web site is 100% Perl.

Sounds like you've got an excellent company.

Are they hiring? <g>

In my last company, all the perl was gradually phased out and replaced with
java. (I have to admit, java does have more stable XML handling abilities, and
we were an XML-centric place...)

Was kind of sad because we started the company as a bunch of perl coders.

I wonder, do you folks think maybe perl is declining because people are
waiting for perl 6? (and adopting different languages in the meantime?)

Jamie
 
P

pkent

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

OK, but how exactly do you know what language many web apps are written
in, the ones that _don't_ have very obvious tell-tale marks (e.g.
certain cookies or query string params, or particular filename
extensions)? What about applications that are used in SSIs, so you never
even know about them? Or applications that run behind-the-scenes doing
on-demand content creation for example?

It could be that the sites you happen to use are ones that seem to use
PHP or Java, and you don't visit sites that seem to use perl.


Anyway, to answer your original question we use perl to provide several
hundred metric shedloads of dynamic content, a lot of constantly-updated
content, searches, quizzes, games, user personalization, community
software, message boards, weather forecasts, geographical data,
syndication feeds, data capture, and Much Much More, and that's just the
stuff on the web site.

Behind that we have a content distribution network, something involving
Real media serving, an array of Content Production and Management
Systems, content moderation services, data mining tools, user
administration, automated data munging pipelines, and a vast number of
greater or lesser scripts for a wide variety of purposes.

A quick 'du -sk' shows about 90 megabytes of stuff checked out of our
CVS repository, and (after a little find...) there seem to be 195,000
lines of .pl and .pm files, which is a subset of only our department's
CVS.

And that's just work stuff, so I think perl's quite popular in some
places :)

P
 
K

Kevin Shay

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

Tens of thousands of websites (and not just weblogs, by any means) are
built and maintained with Movable Type, an application written in
Perl.

--Kevin
 
T

thumb_42

pkent said:
It could be that the sites you happen to use are ones that seem to use
PHP or Java, and you don't visit sites that seem to use perl.

True, I suppose people could be using the .php extension for anything, but I
can't see why one would do that. (also, .html's are in many cases perl I
know, because I've done that myself. :)
Anyway, to answer your original question we use perl to provide several
hundred metric shedloads of dynamic content, a lot of constantly-updated
content, searches, quizzes, games, user personalization, community
software, message boards, weather forecasts, geographical data,
syndication feeds, data capture, and Much Much More, and that's just the
stuff on the web site.

Have you ever regretted using perl? Ever get any flack from others about
using it, and are there maintenance issues that say, wouldn't be there with
other languages?

Have you considered going with PHP/JSP/etc.. on the web side, but having
those languages talk to a perl daemon? (I didn't ask would you consider, I
wonder if you had already or perhaps the manager types tried to push it.)

I've used perl on large projects before, I liked parts of it. seemed to work
pretty good overall, except for the web interface stuff. (was an N-tier
design)

But, I got tons of flack for the 'perl' part. When I left they re-did all my
work using EJB's. (and then the company more or less fell over.. :-/ )

Now I'm wondering, if I ever do anything commercial, would it happen it
again?

It's kind of funny I went to one of suns java conventions. Got into
conversations with people and sometimes when I'd say (somewhat shyly, this
was a flipping java convention afterall) that my main project was in perl,
the reaction was a hushed 'cool', I got the impression some of the
developers there would actually perfer perl.

Jamie
 
R

Robert

It's kind of funny I went to one of suns java conventions. Got into
conversations with people and sometimes when I'd say (somewhat shyly, this
was a flipping java convention afterall) that my main project was in perl,
the reaction was a hushed 'cool', I got the impression some of the
developers there would actually perfer perl.

Jamie
That is is the what my Java instructor said when he asked us if we did
any programming. I said "Perl" and he said "Cool".
 
R

Robert

Just a curious question:

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.

So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?

(Yes, I know these are FAQ's, but times change, I'm curious about what
people think these days)

Jamie
I am a newbie at Perl. I chose Perl because I didn't want to worry about
enforced white space and the headaches that brings. I took it as a
challenge to write clear code. Also Perl seems to have every library
that I could ever use. I use it for my websites for admining my Windows
and Linux boxes and just scripting in general. It is my "do all"
language. If I need to do something outside the scope of Perl I turn to
Java but that has been a rarity.

Take it from a newbie: "Perl is very cool" : )
 
I

Ian Cass

Just a curious question:
So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people
actually get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?

I get paid to write Perl on Linux. I write SMS protocol drivers, servers &
parsers. I can write stuff in Perl in a fraction of the time that it takes
our Java team to get something written. The end result is always smaller,
tighter, faster and more efficient than the Java version.
 
C

Caj Zell

Just a curious question:

What is perl being used for these days?

I am a developer of signal processing algorithms, mainly for video
compression and processing. This work is very focused on embedded
systems and all running code is therefore in assembly and c. However,
all system configuration, testing and reporting is implemented in
Perl. So, this is very far from web applications and Perl has
definitely found usage here. And it is cool.

Caj Zell
 
B

Brad Baxter

I wonder, do you folks think maybe perl is declining because people are
waiting for perl 6? (and adopting different languages in the meantime?)

Perl isn't declining. It's the most-used language in the world, and its
market share increases daily.

Regards,

Brad
 
T

Thomas Kratz

Pope said:
What do you base your statement upon?

All such generalizations are wrong, including this one....
^^^
nice one! :) Was the joke intentional (no smiley) ?

Thomas
 
P

pkent

True, I suppose people could be using the .php extension for anything, but I
can't see why one would do that. (also, .html's are in many cases perl I
know, because I've done that myself. :)

And also (more what I was getting at) if you have a url like
http://example.com/foo/bar/baz ... well, you don't reall yknow whethe
rfoo, bar or baz are actual directories under $DOCROOT or RewriteRules
or Aliases or ScriptAliases or... :)


Have you ever regretted using perl? Ever get any flack from others about
using it, and are there maintenance issues that say, wouldn't be there with
other languages?

Yes on all points, but with a good explanation:

1) There are some things that are best expressed in C, some are best
expressd in perl, or bash, and so on and on. A lot of things of course
can be done in most languages, one way or another. I regret that a very
small number of things that we use were done in perl rather than
something _more appropriate to the problem_ - but sometimes it's not my
choice :)

That said, there is one enormous project written in C++ that I regret[1]
was not written in perl, so it works both ways

2) Plenty of people prefer python, C, java, whatever. At our place, cos
we use so much perl, there is less flak - but still there is some.
Sometime it's justified, e.g. an old version of perl that we use.
Sometime's it not, and results from people's misunderstandings.

That said, we also use oracle and mysql, and both of those get
criticized for all sorts of reasons, so it's not limited to perl.

3) I've had reasonably trivial but annoying issues maintaining a suite
of OO classes recently. In java I would know what my member variables
were called and they could be 'private' or 'protected'. Not the same
thing in perl, which meant I had do do a little bit more grepping and
testing.

Now, that was annoying, but like I say pretty minor in the grand scheme
of things. I'm sure that there would be maintenance headaches in _any_
language - just different ones :)

Have you considered going with PHP/JSP/etc.. on the web side, but having
those languages talk to a perl daemon? (I didn't ask would you consider, I
wonder if you had already or perhaps the manager types tried to push it.)

We use PHP for some things on a few of our internal development
machines, because some developers have PHP skills and it's an
appropriate solution to particular problems. On the live site there is
currently no PHP and won't be for a good long time. I don't know the
exact reasons.

I have a feeling that we do use some JSP somewhere, but that would be on
an application we bought in from somewhere else, and is running on its
own boxes.

I've used perl on large projects before, I liked parts of it. seemed to work
pretty good overall, except for the web interface stuff. (was an N-tier
design)

We've got a good number of large projects and I think that careful
planning and design makes such things work, in any language. Perl can be
used for enormous projects but you need the appropriate planning,
architecture and design first - just as for any language.

P

[1] yeah, no worries, we'll just upgrade glibc on these critical servers
and recompile the world shall we?
 
M

Mike

Just a curious question:
What is perl being used for these days?

I've been a web designer for about 8 years, and every single site I've
done has used Perl in one way or another. Most of them use Perl pretty
extensively if you count all of the SSI and backend programming. The
main reason is so that I can be sure that the code will be stable
regardless of the end-user capabilities, unlike Java.

Mike
 
H

H. Wade Minter

Just a curious question:

What is perl being used for these days?

Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.

So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?

I wrote a frontend for the audio system at an improv comedy club in Perl/Tk.
It interfaces between a MySQL backend and an XMMS frontend, and runs under
X11 or Win32.

http://www.lunenburg.org/mrvoice/

The great GUI bindings, combined with the vast module selection and Perl's
ease of use, let me get a very useful and functional app up and running in
a short period of time.

--Wade
 
B

Brad Baxter


IANAS, but http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/images/tpci_trends.gif, for
example, doesn't strike me as an indication that Perl is particularly
losing ground.

Thanks, for the links. Obviously, I could search these out myself, too.
I personally don't, however, particularly see a point in it. :)

Regards,

Brad
 

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